Questionable churches in my area

[qui_est_ce]

Hi all,

Well Qui, it’s too bad that your priest can’t say something in private of course, to the nun that does that. (couldn’t he?) I think that all the nuns whose convents have degraded into Gaia worship should all be cleaned out of the Church IMHO.

The Bible study we were going to at the Lutheran church was led by the pastor, and it was 1) boring and 2) sometimes a doctrinal difference of opinion between the pastor and one “pillar of the church” kind of guy who sometimes tends to put people off. So that’s why we stopped going, it was kind of uncomfortable too in that when we offered our (name removed by moderator)uts it kind of felt like Pastor just sort of brushed over it. Now a Bible Study like you mentioned, that would be great!

I haven’t gone to mass at either one of the parishes yet, I was going to their websites to “scout them out” to see if I’d find anything that I did end up finding. But you’re right Pastors come and go on a regular basis. And that’s a good idea about starting your own adult faith group–one that is 100% faithful.

BTW my name is Christine too, good name eh?

Barb, I remember reading the story about Bishop Bruskewitz–and the brand new Monsignor doesn’t mind mentioning that he was involved in CTA! See, that’s what I mean. Yeah, I watch EWTN whenever I get the chance (like when I’m home alone!). The only time my husband thinks I watch it is when we watch Chesterton on Sunday nights. I wonder if the new Monsignor at Church#1 or the mantra-reciting priest at Church#2 “agrees with EWTN’s spirituality”… And yeah, wow, I’ve heard of “Dignity”…what was your priest thinkin’? Scary…

The community where I live is Liberal in general, so that’s why I thought I might check out the churches before jumping in. But again, like Qui said, it’s not about the priest!

Hi Christine!

You need to get to mass, and stop intellectualizing!! There will be something wrong with every priest. The Church is a place for sinners!! (And I’m a very Orthodox Catholic and political conservative)!

I’ll write more later, as I have to leave to take my daughter to school BOO HOO!

 

[wisdomseeker]

Hi, I’m wondering if anyone could help me out with this problem. (Sorry if this is not the right area to post this, please move if necessary)

I’m a lapsed Catholic seriously considering coming back to the Church. There are two churches in my area, sort of equidistant. I’ve never been to either one of them yet, but I’ve checked out their websites.

One is starting a “Just Faith” group, which I understand has links to other organizations that do not promote sound Catholic teaching. Also, the new Monsignor who just arrived there has been involved in Call to Action according to his own bio.

The second church, in its bulletin, has an advertisement about the first church’s starting of the Just Faith group. And its pastor, in the bulletin, talked about contemplative prayer and saying a mantra of seven syllables as prescribed by his spiritual advisor. That sounds kind of new-agey to me. Also, the Sojourners group meets at this church which I have heard might be unfaithful to the Church’s teaching.

So what do I do? How much does it matter that these two churches promote these things if they’re the only two I have to choose from? If I do go back, I’d want the church to be 100% faithful to the Pope and Magisterium, and I don’t want to start going and commit myself only to find out that it isn’t.

I’d appreciate any words of wisdom and encouragement. I’m troubled and don’t want to lose heart. Thanks so much!

father corapi says, when you see these things in teh Church, run from it. i would follow his advice.

 

[Rachel_1]

My own opinion is that I wouldn’t go to either parish, but instead I’d look for one that didn’t have the questionable stuff in it, even if I had to drive further.

 

[wisdomseeker]

My own opinion is that I wouldn’t go to either parish, but instead I’d look for one that didn’t have the questionable stuff in it, even if I had to drive further.

i agree. stay long enough with them and you start thinking just like them. i got way from my parish when i begin to see and hears things that are not Catholic. i just couldnt take anymore. it is too upsetting to be among those who do not have the same faith.

 

[SecretBeliever]

Yeah…unfortunately I see the valid points from either side of everyone who’s commented here… I definitely don’t want to have unorthodox viewpoints rub off on me just by being around people who believe them! But, I’ve gotta start somewhere also… arrghh!!! I know, Rachel, what you’re saying about not going to either one and going farther away. But like I said, driving far to church is, especially for my husband, not an option; (we already quit going to the Lutheran church because, among other things, it’s too far away) We really have the desire to fully integrate into our own community where we live now. The Lutheran church is right close to where we used to live. When we moved here, we really wanted to integrate with this local community and not just “hang our hats” here. there’s so many moving parts to this situation, ugh!

 

[Rachel_1]

Yeah…unfortunately I see the valid points from either side of everyone who’s commented here… I definitely don’t want to have unorthodox viewpoints rub off on me just by being around people who believe them! But, I’ve gotta start somewhere also… arrghh!!! I know, Rachel, what you’re saying about not going to either one and going farther away. But like I said, driving far to church is, especially for my husband, not an option; (we already quit going to the Lutheran church because, among other things, it’s too far away) We really have the desire to fully integrate into our own community where we live now. The Lutheran church is right close to where we used to live. When we moved here, we really wanted to integrate with this local community and not just “hang our hats” here. there’s so many moving parts to this situation, ugh!

Seriously though, you only have 2 parishes to choose from?
Myself, I go to my local parish, but I also drive 30+ to another one (I attend two different ones myself so I can go to a EF Mass)

 

[revert_jen]

Yeah…unfortunately I see the valid points from either side of everyone who’s commented here… I definitely don’t want to have unorthodox viewpoints rub off on me just by being around people who believe them! But, I’ve gotta start somewhere also… arrghh!!!

But the fact is, you don’t know yet whether there is any problem with either of the parishes. Go to the parish that sounds best and see what it is like. Don’t borrow trouble. When you know whether there are any problems there that would hinder your spiritual development, that is when you decide what to do about it. If you want to ease into it, just go to a Mass, without going to confession or receiving the Eucharist. If they have one billed as “Traditional” or something, you might want to start with that one. (Mostly that refers to the music, but it’s also likely to be (in my experience) the most reverent Mass–even if the music just ends up being the same as the music at the other Masses only played on an organ or piano instead of guitars.) Also it is still summer, so even if it is a small parish, strangers won’t stand out much.

Just GO. This Sunday. When you know what the problems are, especially when you know if there are any problems at all, that is the time to worry about solving them. And going to Mass without your husband now, may be the best way of ensuring that the two of you spend most of your lives as people who go to Mass together.

God bless you,

–Jen

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi -

Yep, just two in our town. Now there are a few that are several miles away, like I said. Again though - if my DH doesn’t want to go to the Lutheran church several miles away, I really doubt that he’d want to go to a Catholic church several miles away!

Church#1 (with the CTA Monsignor and Just Faith) is a very large church, which I actually would prefer, 'cause I’d like to stay anonymous for however long it takes (for me to come out of my shell). The Lutheran church we went to is very small and anyone who took even a tiny bit more interest than the other members got tagged to do stuff, and then was expected to do stuff. More and more stuff. That’s what happened to my husband. He’s so dutiful, he can’t say no, but he got sick of it, especially since we’d moved up here and the pastor seemed to still think that DH could just pop down there and do whatever on a moment’s notice, practically. I sort of got sucked into that too, but I wasn’t afraid to say “time out!”

Also, and this goes along with Rachel’s suggestion to try another farther away church, we commute quite a way to work every day. I drive 30 miles each way and DH drives about 45 (which actually takes him about 1 1/2 hours!). We’re really over that – so by the time Sunday comes we’re really not in the mood to drive yet again, 30 miles each way. Yeah, I know, it’s obviously for a good reason and all. But something’s gotta give somewhere; we’re overflowing with stuff that takes up our time, all the time. OK maybe it sounds like an excuse but I guess you’d really have to try it for a while and see if you might not react the same way.

Church#2 (mantra-chanting pastor) is smaller and has been going through quite a bit of upheaval with the congregation on different sides fighting about new construction plans etc. I guess it was very fractious, according to documents on their own website. Not sure if I want to get caught up in that can of worms either.

Anyway. I am pretty sure I’d want to try out both, get the feel for things etc. I can’t take the Sacraments yet (marriage situation) but I certainly need to go to confession. Oh yeah, Church#1 has a program for Catholics returning to the Church. That’s a reason why I’d lean toward Church#1.

It’s a big step. Necessary, but big. Oh and that’s another thing I just thought of. I’m sort of apprehensive of either one of these priests being my confessor!

Another thing I thought of, is going to Mass at noontime during the week. I work at a military installation and there is a chapel there. That could help me out, being unafraid of going at lunchtime without DH having to be in on things “yet”. He and I are very close, and don’t do much outside of each other’s awareness. It’s kind of stifling at times. That’s why it would be hard for me to just take off on Sunday mornings by myself. But I also like it in a way because we are each other’s best (and pretty much only) friends. It’s kind of weird to a lot of people I suppose; but we are happy.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Tomorrow is Sunday. Waiting to see if YOU, Secret Believer will go to mass.

++crying buckets, my Anna is away at school again++:crying:

God bless.!!

 

[SimonDodd]

father corapi says, when you see these things in teh Church, run from it. i would follow his advice.

With the greatest respect to Fr. Corapi, I really find this oft-repeated nugget of advice unhelpful. On encountering an abusive practice, the best thing to do is not to run away, but to stay and do what we can to improve them. As then-Fr. Newman pointed out in his essay On Consulting the Faithful in Matters of Doctrine, during the time of the Arian heresy, it was the orthodoxy of the laity more than the orthodoxy of the episcopate which pulled the Church through; what would have happened if the faithful had abandoned every church the moment it was tainted with Arianism rather than fighting back?

 

[wisdomseeker]

With the greatest respect to Fr. Corapi, I really find this oft-repeated nugget of advice unhelpful. On encountering an abusive practice, the best thing to do is not to run away, but to stay and do what we can to improve them. As then-Fr. Newman pointed out in his essay On Consulting the Faithful in Matters of Doctrine, during the time of the Arian heresy, it was the orthodoxy of the laity more than the orthodoxy of the episcopate which pulled the Church through; what would have happened if the faithful had abandoned every church the moment it was tainted with Arianism rather than fighting back?

you cant fight back your priest or bishop. it doesnt work that way.

if the priest is umpious, you are not going to change his mind and neither change the mind of the bishop. the best way is to go to a parish where the Faith is tought truthfully.
specially those whose faith is not so strong. fr. corapi knows better. he knows more than you about what is going on in the Church. do you want to follow the america Catholic organization? who is coming against the Church? why not? you should go with them and try to change their. should you stay with those who wants to ordain women as priests? why not? do you think you can go there and change their mind? let me know your accomplishments.

 

[SimonDodd]

you cant fight back your priest or bishop. it doesnt work that way. ¶ if the priest is umpious, you are not going to change his mind and neither change the mind of the bishop. the best way is to go to a parish where the Faith is tought truthfully.
specially those whose faith is not so strong.

If the priest won’t listen, you make very sure that it’s him who is in the wrong (it’s very easy to fall into the trap of abuse=“something that startled me or that I don’t like”), and go to the bishop. If that doesn’t work, you go to the Vatican. If you’ve exhausted those steps, if you feel that you have done everything that you can, then by all means, change parishes. But don’t do it lightly, because in doing so, you’re abandoning that parish and those in it to something you know is abusive, unorthodox, or whatever the problem is.

fr. corapi knows better. he knows more than you about what is going on in the Church.

Happily stipulated. If there was a bumper sticker “Fr. Corapi knows better” with father raising a stern finger of warning, I would probably have it. He’s a terrific preacher, and although I certainly never hit the kind of depths he did, his story is a clarion call that there is no place you can go whence God can’t rescue you if you’ll let him, no darkness that can’t be dispelled by the saving light of Christ if you’ll turn to him. It is a powerful testimony. So I would never disrespect him, and I hesitate to disagree with him. But on this point, I must.

do you want to follow the america Catholic organization? who is coming against the Church? why not? you should go with them and try to change their. should you stay with those who wants to ordain women as priests? why not? do you think you can go there and change their mind? let me know your accomplishments.

Our foe is on the prowl, looking for parishes to devour. And every time those faithful to the Church’s teaching give up and cede another parish to the modernists, the modernists win another victory. Sometimes a tactical withdrawal is necessary, but you don’t push back by retreating.

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi Qui

…ahhh, sorry, didn’t make it yesterday…we’re still in the throes of over-extension. Hubby said last night again, while watching Chesterton, he disagrees with the Church not on tradition (I think he means lower-case t tradition) but on doctrine. He said something about interpreting the Bible himself.

Hi Simon, Wisdom,

Good points from both of you. I do love watching Fr Corapi; I can identify with him up to a certain point. I can see how he takes a hard-liner approach like “don’t even go there”!, but having no churches around me that seem to be 100% faithful, well, yes I do agree I have to go somewhere! I couldn’t begin to change the minds of the monsignor or the other priest, but I think someone earlier pointed out that if I started going back, I could eventually start an adult faith group that could have quite a different (and correct) viewpoint. How would that change the direction of that whole church? I don’t know. Some anecdotal evidence of something like that would be helpful. But I will say, I’d be doing myself a disservice if I didn’t do more research on the churches that are farther away from me. That’ll be my homework for this week.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Hi Qui

…ahhh, sorry, didn’t make it yesterday…we’re still in the throes of over-extension. Hubby said last night again, while watching Chesterton, he disagrees with the Church not on tradition (I think he means lower-case t tradition) but on doctrine. He said something about interpreting the Bible himself.

OK, so you’re both Christians who believe in Christ’s sacrifice. You’re willing to drive 35-40 miles to work, but won’t do it for Christ? Not trying to be hard on you, but that jumped out at me. I drove my daughter 200 miles to school on Thursday and drove home by myself. She could have gone with somebody else, but it was worth the drive.

Hi Simon, Wisdom,

Good points from both of you. I do love watching Fr Corapi; I can identify with him up to a certain point. I can see how he takes a hard-liner approach like “don’t even go there”!, but having no churches around me that seem to be 100% faithful, well, yes I do agree I have to go somewhere! I couldn’t begin to change the minds of the monsignor or the other priest, but I think someone earlier pointed out that if I started going back, I could eventually start an adult faith group that could have quite a different (and correct) viewpoint. How would that change the direction of that whole church? I don’t know. Some anecdotal evidence of something like that would be helpful. But I will say, I’d be doing myself a disservice if I didn’t do more research on the churches that are farther away from me. That’ll be my homework for this week.

You might find out the parishes aren’t as bad as you think. You won’t know until you get there. If they are really bad, then yes, run as fast as you can. But you won’t know until you get there!

I don’t see how you can stand not going to mass on Sunday.

 

[revert_jen]

…ahhh, sorry, didn’t make it yesterday…we’re still in the throes of over-extension. Hubby said last night again, while watching Chesterton, he disagrees with the Church not on tradition (I think he means lower-case t tradition) but on doctrine. He said something about interpreting the Bible himself.

Sorry, I don’t want to be harsh, but you are in no position to discuss Catholicism with your husband. You presumably know that missing Mass is grave matter. (If you didn’t know it before, you know it now.) You have chosen to continue not attending.

If you believe the teachings of the Church you must go back without further delay. If you don’t believe them, how do you expect to convince your husband?

Every week you don’t go to Mass, you are telling your husband really loud that you don’t really believe the teachings of the Church. Nothing you say with your mouth is going to speak to him as clearly as your actions do. So, if you wait until you have convinced your husband of the truth of Catholicism before you go back, it seems unlikely that either of you will ever go. You and the Holy Spirit can work together to bring your husband into the Church better, once you have returned to the regular practice of the sacraments yourself. I do NOT suggest going without telling your husband, just going without him coming too. So what if it’s a little awkward? It’s your eternal soul on the line here. In any case, I’m pretty sure it will be a lot better for you to go without him. Then you can concentrate on the Mass, rather than concentrating on the impression that the Mass is making on him. Also you don’t have to have the discussion about why you can’t go to Communion yet.

I’m sorry if that is harsh. But you’ve missed Mass twice just since you started this thread, and you need to go. It is better to attend a valid Mass with illicit elements than not to attend Mass at all. And you really have no information to indicate that there even are any illicit elements. But even if there were, it is the priest’s sin if he re-words prayers or whatever. It is your sin if you miss Mass for insufficient reason, and I haven’t heard you give any sufficient ones.

And I’m sure that when Fr. Corapi said to run from parishes with liturgical abuses, he did NOT mean that you were excused from attending Mass, but that you have to find another parish, however far away that might be. We may or may not agree about whether it is better to go to a new parish than to stay, but that has nothing to do with the obligation to attend Mass.

Have you ever read the Screwtape Letters? If not, I recommend it. If so, are you sure that the objections you are voicing are coming from you originally, and not from a tempter? I mean, yes it’s hard, especially because you are not canonically married to your husband. But it’s not going to get easier by you putting it off. And it’s very much worth it.

–Jen

 

[SimonDodd]

SecretBeliever, can I make a suggestion? If one or both of the churches offers a weekday Mass, why not start by attending one of those? They are typically shorter than a Sunday Mass, and so are perhaps easier to find time for. Perhaps jump back in at the shallow end of the pool?

 

[qui_est_ce]

Every week you don’t go to Mass, you are telling your husband really loud that you don’t really believe the teachings of the Church. Nothing you say with your mouth is going to speak to him as clearly as your actions do. So, if you wait until you have convinced your husband of the truth of Catholicism before you go back, it seems unlikely that either of you will ever go. You and the Holy Spirit can work together to bring your husband into the Church better, once you have returned to the regular practice of the sacraments yourself. I do NOT suggest going without telling your husband, just going without him coming too. So what if it’s a little awkward? It’s your eternal soul on the line here. In any case, I’m pretty sure it will be a lot better for you to go without him. Then you can concentrate on the Mass, rather than concentrating on the impression that the Mass is making on him. Also you don’t have to have the discussion about why you can’t go to Communion yet.

Very wise observation.

I’m sorry if that is harsh. But you’ve missed Mass twice just since you started this thread, and you need to go. It is better to attend a valid Mass with illicit elements than not to attend Mass at all. And you really have no information to indicate that there even are any illicit elements. But even if there were, it is the priest’s sin if he re-words prayers or whatever. It is your sin if you miss Mass for insufficient reason, and I haven’t heard you give any sufficient ones.

And I’m sure that when Fr. Corapi said to run from parishes with liturgical abuses, he did NOT mean that you were excused from attending Mass, but that you have to find another parish, however far away that might be. We may or may not agree about whether it is better to go to a new parish than to stay, but that has nothing to do with the obligation to attend Mass.

Very true.

Have you ever read the Screwtape Letters? If not, I recommend it. If so, are you sure that the objections you are voicing are coming from you originally, and not from a tempter? I mean, yes it’s hard, especially because you are not canonically married to your husband. But it’s not going to get easier by you putting it off. And it’s very much worth it.

I recommend it. It’s the little tiny things that brings us off track. It’s scary how easy it is to get comfortable in sin.

–Jen

Jen-
I’m sure it took a lot of courage to wrote what you did, at the expense of being judged harsh. I know you meant it in brotherly love, and chose not to soft-pedal the truth.

Today’s Gospel was from John [BIBLEDRB]john 1:45-46[/BIBLEDRB]

Come and see, that jumped out at me, and I said a prayer for Secret.

 

[SecretBeliever]

Hi Qui, Jen,

You both are quite right in chastising me; I’m becoming aware that I may just be using these situations to cover up what is the real problem; mustering up the courage to just go and sort out the details later. I’m going to mention it to him, this week. I have to. I’ve messed around long enough and you are all helping me to come to terms with what’s really going on in my mind. I’m scared; God help me! I look at your responses as though the Holy Spirit is saying, “stop procrastinating”! I’m sure the psychological thing for it is projecting all kinds of bad things happening just to justify my not going. Thank you!

Simon,

I work 30 miles away from the churches; wouldn’t be able to do it. But, like I said, there is a lunchtime Mass at the chapel where I work. That would definitely be an option.

 

[qui_est_ce]

Hi Qui, Jen,

You both are quite right in chastising me; I’m becoming aware that I may just be using these situations to cover up what is the real problem; mustering up the courage to just go and sort out the details later. I’m going to mention it to him, this week. I have to. I’ve messed around long enough and you are all helping me to come to terms with what’s really going on in my mind. I’m scared; God help me! I look at your responses as though the Holy Spirit is saying, “stop procrastinating”! I’m sure the psychological thing for it is projecting all kinds of bad things happening just to justify my not going. Thank you!

Simon,

I work 30 miles away from the churches; wouldn’t be able to do it. But, like I said, there is a lunchtime Mass at the chapel where I work. That would definitely be an option.

I’m so happy you took it in the spirit in which it was attended.

 

[revert_jen]

SecretBeliever–

I’m so glad!! :extrahappy: Blessed be God!

–Jen