Questions about birth control again

[vsedriver]

PMDD is very serious and not to be taken lightly.

yes, this is a very serious condition. Abstaining from relations is the only safe way to prevent a pregnancy for medical reasons.

 

[ballin]

Yaz doesn’t cause abortions, people get pregnant on them if they miss doses and then just stop taking it.

Well it depends on the medication, no? I believe the way it acts is that first it prevents conception. Then if it had failed, it aborts, no?

 

[ballin]

She is definitely not using it to sidestep, so back to my original question. What if I used condoms but went to confession regularly while she breastfeeds?

Actually then you will be guilty of the sin of “Presumption of forgiveness” which is a direct sin against the Holy Spirit though.

 

[Nate13]

I am 69 years old and my biggest regret is ever using the rhythm method because it was the most unnatural thing I ever had to do. And it did not work. My husband is a physician and I am a college graduate so we understood how to use it. When I described to a priest very graphically what goes on in the bedroom when using this method he responded he could not do it. We dam up water for electricity–that is something unnatural for a much greater good. We should be able to use a condom within marriage and “dam sperm up” for a much greater good. There is no Cardinal who could manage six kids, 4 of whom have issues, and still subject his wife to more pregnancies. Just becasue something is unnatural does not mean it is wrong. It means science has found a way to help struggling families.
In these times of so much divorce we should encourage much more physical love between good married couples.
I agonized for years over this issue because I felt separated from my faith so I brought it one last time to a priest I thought would argue with me. I did not want a priest who just said it is OK. This priest was secretary to Pope Paul the sixth for over 10 years and told me the Pope would be the first to say to follow my conscience.

I’ll pray for that priests soul. It really doesn’t mean much to say he was close to Pope Paul considering Pope Paul VI is the guy who wrote Humane Vitae that clearly spells out that contracepting is intrinsically evil and thus unjustifiable, period.

“Consequently, it is a serious error to think that a whole married life of otherwise normal relations can justify sexual intercourse which is deliberately contraceptive and so intrinsically wrong.”

Pope Paul VI, Humane Vitae

The Canadian bishops who said something similar to the effect of “just follow your conscience” were also rebuked and later took back their comments and reiterated their support for Church teaching.

1791 This ignorance can often be imputed to personal responsibility. This is the case when a man "takes little trouble to find out what is true and good, or when conscience is by degrees almost blinded through the habit of committing sin."59 In such cases, the person is culpable for the evil he commits.

Catechism
1792 Ignorance of Christ and his Gospel, bad example given by others, enslavement to one’s passions, assertion of a mistaken notion of autonomy of conscience, rejection of the Church’s authority and her teaching, lack of conversion and of charity: these can be at the source of errors of judgment in moral conduct.

 

[Usige]

She is definitely not using it to sidestep, so back to my original question. What if I used condoms but went to confession regularly while she breastfeeds?

If you go to confession and still intend to use a condom then the absolution is invalid. Absolution assumes that one is not planning on sinning again. Think of it like confessing about not going to mass for 3 months right before Easter when you intend on skipping mass from June through December.

 

[Corki]

She is definitely not using it to sidestep, so back to my original question. What if I used condoms but went to confession regularly while she breastfeeds?

No, using condoms is not a moral solution. Committing a sin with the intent to just go to Confession about it is another sin compounding. The intent to continue committing the sin is a sign of lack of contrition which could mean that the priest couldn’t absolve you. So, not a good solution on any grounds.

You have three choices 1) get your wife back on the medication that treats her condition. 2) get training on using NFP post partum or 3) abstain until one of these complicating factors is resolved.

PS, many women get some relief from pre and post menstral hormonal complications after giving birth. You should contact a good physician who is well versed in treatment beyond birth control pills. Perhaps the Pope Paul IV Institute can help you find one.

 

[sw85]

Also my wife’s condition is so bad it affects her daily. She’s tried other ways to treat it and the only way that really helps her is yaz. She breaks down and cries for no reason otherwise, and on top of that she has a traumatic brain injury. So the only option is birth control. I have a traumatic brain injury as well, so we couldn’t handle more than one kid right now. See my moral dilemma?

No, there are two other options: NFP and abstinence. If you feel the medical risks associated with another pregnancy are too high, then you still have the option of abstinence.

I do not know if PMDD is considered sufficiently grave to justify treatment with oral contraceptives. I doubt it is, but no one here is in a position to answer this kind of question for you. You should get in touch with the Pope Paul VI Institute to get better advice.

She is definitely not using it to sidestep, so back to my original question. What if I used condoms but went to confession regularly while she breastfeeds?

Confessions are invalid if there is not an intent to repair one’s life. You cannot be absolved of a sin you intend to repeat.

But why would it would be necessary to use condoms while your wife breastfeeds? Lactational amenorrhea has an effect similar to contraceptives – something like a 99% infertility rate for the first 6 months and 98.5% for the first year. Paired with NFP, that sounds like a pretty foolproof way of avoiding pregnancy without offending against chastity.

 

[twoangels]

So I’ve done the research and everything says that condoms are a sin. But what happens if you use condoms?

If you know that using condoms are gravely immoral and use them anyone, you fall guilty of mortal sin. You would need to then repent and go to confession resolved not to do it again.

I can’t find this anywhere, what if you’re a good person but you choose to use condoms.

You seriously need to read “Mere Christianity” by CS Lewis:

From "Is Christianity hard or easy?
"The ordinary idea which we all have before we become Christians is this. We take as starting point our ordinary self with its various desires and interests. We then admit that something else – call it morality’ or ‘decent behaviour,’ or ‘the good of society’- has claims on this self: claims which interfere with its own desires. What we mean by ‘being good’ is giving in to those claims. Some of the things the ordinary self wanted to do turn out to be what we call ‘wrong’: well, we must give them up. Other things, which the self did not want to do, turn out to be what we call ‘right’: well, we shall have to do them. But we are hoping all the time that when all the demands have been met, the poor natural self will still have some chance, and some time, to get on with its own desires. What we mean by being good’ is giving in to those claims. …]In fact, we are very like an honest man paying his taxes. He pays them all right, but he does hope that there will be enough left over for him to live on. Because we arc still taking our natural self as the starting point.

As long as we are thinking that way, one or other of two results is likely to follow. Either we give up trying to be good, or else we become very unhappy indeed. For, make no mistake: if you are really going to try to meet all the demands made on the natural self, it will not have enough left over to live on. …]

The Christian way is different: harder, and easier. Christ says `Give me All. I don’t want so much of your time and so much of your money and so much of your work: I want You. I have not come to torment your natural self, but to kill it. No half-measures are any good. I don’t want to cut off a branch here and a branch there, I want to have the whole tree down. I don’t want to drill the tooth, or crown it, or stop it, but to have it out. Hand over the whole natural self, all the desires which you think innocent as well as the ones you think wicked – the whole outfit. I will give you a new self instead. In fact, I will give you Myself: my own will shall become yours.’"

bernardbragas.wordpress.com/2008/01/26/chapter-30-is-christianity-hard-or-easy/

NFP is all about being open to new life, but what if your not open right now. We just had a child and she is all we can take right now. I’ve talked to several priests about this and they have both said my circumstance they think it would be ok. One also said I wouldn’t go to hell, but that raised the question of what would happen to me? My wife has a very severe case of pmdd, so when she gets her period back she would go on the pill. Is my only option to abstain the whole time she is breastfeeding then? Thanks.

Here is info on postpartem depression. fertilitycare.org/postpartum-depression/

NFP is a bit more challenging after you give birth. Once she gets her period, it’ll be much easier. The issue is that unless she is constantly breastfeeding, her body is getting an inconsistant amount of hormones that would supress the return of her fertility. Her body will be trying to ovulate but often failing. As her body prepares, she will have fertilty symptoms (fertile mucus). Her body will fail to ovulate and should go back down to dryer days, but that mucus will show up longer and longer. Abstaining can include abstaining for a month before her cycle returns. The struggle is that when she has that mucus, she could ovulate. You don’t know if she will or not, so if you need to be cautious, you need to abstain during that time. Once she has her period (medium flow of the 5 to 7 day duration), her cycle will return to normal. It may even be better than before. I used to have shorter cycles with lots of prementrual spotting and cramps. I had pretty bad PMS as well. Now my cycles are longer, I don’t have the severe PMS symptoms and the cramps are gone. Its like I hit the restart button on my body.

In the future, also, you may want to look into encapelating the placenta and having her consume it that way. Many midwives recommend this to ward off postpartem depression.

 

[AthenaC]

However, if they cut the tip of the condom off, they could wear it for comfort but eliminate the contraceptive effect. Problem solved.

Interesting - I hadn’t thought of that. Not sure if this topic will ever happen to come up in conversation again, but I will keep that in mind.

 

[ZoeyBdo]

I didn’t understand that from her question.

Does the pill treat PMDD? Or is is being used as a contraceptive? The answer to the question is related to the OP. It has nothing to do with the seriousness of PMDD or the need to postpone another pregnancy.

Thank you, that was what I was asking. I didn’t realize that the pill was used to treat it. Like I stated, I don’t have kids and I’ve never taken the pill, so I was asking merely to be informed

 

[thistle]

Well, this is one hell of a lot better than Thistle’s answer.** I have to believe with all my heart that a loving God will decide what happens to a person/sinner if they die in mortal sin,** and the circumstances under which they committed what the church says is a mortal sin drive them to make anguished decisions. No matter what the CCC and church dictate, not everything is that black and white, especially in the area of sex and intimacy.

A person goes to a priest and he says something other than what another might say or what the CCC says - what the hell is a Catholic supposed to do? By this scenario, it is to keep searching until someone else gives a different answer. Really?

To the OP, yes, get guidance, pray, do it with your wife, try to get on the same sheet of music. In the end, you and you alone can make the call with your wife after putting all the pieces together. God bless.

The Church teaching is very clear and unambiguous. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell. The Church teachings have the authority of God behind them so God has decided what happens to a person who dies in a state of mortal sin.

A separate issue is whether a person who has committed a sin of grave matter has actually committed a mortal sin if they have, for example, been coerced, are mentally incapacitated, or if they have satisfied the three conditions for a sin to be mortal.

The OP said he knows it is a sin to use a condom and he asked what happens if he uses them. Therefore using a condom in such a case is a mortal sin. The use of condoms for birth control OR medical reasons is forbidden.

 

[PumpkinSeed]

So, this got me thinking.

I have a couple of friends - married couple, not Catholic. They feel ready to have a baby, so the wife stopped taking her birth control pills. One late evening we started talking about some … details. Apparently they still use condoms sometimes - the husband occasionally has outbreaks, and the condom makes it so that sex isn’t painful for him. Made me think, hypothetically, about the ethics of their situation. It’s not as if they are using the condoms because of their contraceptive effect …

If its painful to have sex, then he shouldn’t be having sex when he breaks out, period.

That’s kinda weird he’d be up for sex while in pain especially down there.

 

[brendenseth]

The Church teaching is very clear and unambiguous. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes immediately to Hell. The Church teachings have the authority of God behind them so God has decided what happens to a person who dies in a state of mortal sin.

A separate issue is whether a person who has committed a sin of grave matter has actually committed a mortal sin if they have, for example, been coerced, are mentally incapacitated, or if they have satisfied the three conditions for a sin to be mortal.

The OP said he knows it is a sin to use a condom and he asked what happens if he uses them. Therefore using a condom in such a case is a mortal sin. The use of condoms for birth control OR medical reasons is forbidden.

I said I knew the teaching, why do people like you feel the need to beat a dead horse here. Me and my wife both have brain injuries, and it is all we can do to take care of one child. How could you justify having a lot of children. Because believe it or not if you have unprotected sex you will have more children. And why should we abstain completely? Why should we punish ourselves? I love my wife totally and completely, I love being alive with her and with my daughter. If we all of a sudden had 5 or more kids that would change. What justification do you have for that? I know what the typical response is about birth control is so don’t repeat that.

 

[Nate13]

I said I knew the teaching, why do people like you feel the need to beat a dead horse here. Me and my wife both have brain injuries, and it is all we can do to take care of one child. How could you justify having a lot of children. Because believe it or not if you have unprotected sex you will have more children. And why should we abstain completely? Why should we punish ourselves? I love my wife totally and completely, I love being alive with her and with my daughter. If we all of a sudden had 5 or more kids that would change. What justification do you have for that? I know what the typical response is about birth control is so don’t repeat that.

Your right its going to be painful because you have a very serious reason for avoiding and will have to use NFP carefully.

Condoms are not the answer though even just for practical reasons. In practice between 1 in10 and 1 in 20 couples a year who are using condoms for contraception will get pregnant. That is based on unbiased reports of effectiveness for condom usage in practice, not some Catholic site.
americanpregnancy.org/preventingpregnancy/malecondom.html

Careful NFP is much more effective and gives you direct management over the risk your willing to take. If your doctor tells your wife to use Yaz to treat her condition, she should use Yaz. If you don’t like the side effects find a Catholic doctor and see if there are alternative methods to address her condition. They would know them if there were any.

 

[brendenseth]

Your right its going to be painful because you have a very serious reason for avoiding and will have to use NFP carefully.

Condoms are not the answer though even just for practical reasons. In practice between 1 in10 and 1 in 20 couples a year who are using condoms for contraception will get pregnant. That is based on unbiased reports of effectiveness for condom usage in practice, not some Catholic site.
americanpregnancy.org/preventingpregnancy/malecondom.html

Careful NFP is much more effective and gives you direct management over the risk your willing to take. If your doctor tells your wife to use Yaz to treat her condition, she should use Yaz. If you don’t like the side effects find a Catholic doctor and see if there are alternative methods to address her condition. They would know them if there were any.

If condoms aren’t as effective then if it was really meant to be then would’t it happen anyway?

 

[brendenseth]

Your right its going to be painful because you have a very serious reason for avoiding and will have to use NFP carefully.

Condoms are not the answer though even just for practical reasons. In practice between 1 in10 and 1 in 20 couples a year who are using condoms for contraception will get pregnant. That is based on unbiased reports of effectiveness for condom usage in practice, not some Catholic site.
americanpregnancy.org/preventingpregnancy/malecondom.html

Careful NFP is much more effective and gives you direct management over the risk your willing to take. If your doctor tells your wife to use Yaz to treat her condition, she should use Yaz. If you don’t like the side effects find a Catholic doctor and see if there are alternative methods to address her condition. They would know them if there were any.

Thank you for that response, it gives me a lot more to think about.

 

[thistle]

I said I knew the teaching, why do people like you feel the need to beat a dead horse here. Me and my wife both have brain injuries, and it is all we can do to take care of one child. How could you justify having a lot of children. Because believe it or not if you have unprotected sex you will have more children. And why should we abstain completely? Why should we punish ourselves? I love my wife totally and completely, I love being alive with her and with my daughter. If we all of a sudden had 5 or more kids that would change. What justification do you have for that? I know what the typical response is about birth control is so don’t repeat that.

You keep saying you know the Church teaching. Then why are you asking what to do. You know the answer.
As various posters have pointed out you only have two choices: careful use of NFP or abstention. There is no third choice.

In case you don’t think I know what that means, I do. My wife is a cradle Catholic. Her first husband is dead. My first wife and I are divorced. My current wife and I are legally married but that is not considered valid by the Church. I could not get an annulment. For me to take the final step to become a Catholic I had to vow that my wife and I live a life of continence (i.e. complete abstinence from any sexual relationship) which is what we have done for the past 20 years. We had to make a choice. Put God first or ourselves first. We chose God.

 

[AthenaC]

Thank you for that response, it gives me a lot more to think about.

Indeed. I got pregnant with my oldest while using condoms, and I got pregnant with my youngest while taking a pill. Plus I have had 2 cousins get pregnant while taking a pill. So I actually gave up on birth control all together.

 

[Nate13]

Indeed. I got pregnant with my oldest while using condoms, and I got pregnant with my youngest while taking a pill. Plus I have had 2 cousins get pregnant while taking a pill. So I actually gave up on birth control all together.

Exactly there is no easy care-free way.

 

[brendenseth]

You keep saying you know the Church teaching. Then why are you asking what to do. You know the answer.
As various posters have pointed out you only have two choices: careful use of NFP or abstention. There is no third choice.

In case you don’t think I know what that means, I do. My wife is a cradle Catholic. Her first husband is dead. My first wife and I are divorced. My current wife and I are legally married but that is not considered valid by the Church. I could not get an annulment. For me to take the final step to become a Catholic I had to vow that my wife and I live a life of continence (i.e. complete abstinence from any sexual relationship) which is what we have done for the past 20 years. We had to make a choice. Put God first or ourselves first. We chose God.

So wait you and your wife never have sex? Wow that does take a lot of dedication, but is that really healthy? And I know what “my only choice is” according to traditional catholic teaching. But do you honestly think there is no gray areas with God? Obviously you do if you have been divorced. Every couple has a unique situation, and I know God understands this and takes it into consideration. I was just upset because so many people were so quick to judge me and tell me I would go to hell. When they have no idea, and most people like that are complete hypocrites.