Questions about birth control again

[Curious_Seed]

Actually, I thought he did pretty well. No need for the Church, protestants have the Holy Spirit to guide them directly…off into tens of thousands of different denominations.

If the Holy Spirit is guiding, as you say, is He guiding in error?

Is guidance of the Holy Spirit to be avoided?

Do Catholics pray to statues?

No.

And Protestants should not think otherwise.

Do Protestants not need Church?

No.

And Catholics should not think otherwise.

Multiple denominations are a measure of strength, but not to those who need conformity.

Multiple denominations are respect as much for the thoughts of the pupil, as those of the teacher, but not to those who who need to be told what to think.

Multiple denominations are a reflection of the mosaic in nature, food, and music, but not to those who paint with one color using the same brush, stroked the same way.

Dictatorships and armies need one mind movement; thinking citizenry is not defeated by variety in movement.

The Christian Church is rich due to Catholic Traditions and Protestant Reforms.

 

[underacloud]

Multiple denominations are a measure of strength, but not to those who need conformity.

Multiple demoninations are a measure of disunity.

You speak of conformity as a bad thing. If God reveals truth to you, you conform to it! Catholic’s are not so (or at least I’m not) because we have a psychological need for conformity, as a crutch, but because we respond to God’s truth. Whether you like it or not, we are all called to conform to God’s will.

If you think that the tens of thousands of different protestant denominations (or even just the key half dozen) have come about because the Holy Spirit has guided each of their founders in a certain way, then you need to familiarise yourself with the law of non-contradiction.

 

[brendenseth]

Actually when I looked it up the first recommendation was a change in diet, a hard look at nutrition, and regular exercise. A lack of certain nutrients and vitamins is often times the cause of many of these conditions and problems with a woman’s cycle.

Actually my wife has tried everything else, nothing has the effectiveness of YAZ. It really messes her up for about a week out of the month, why do people have a problem with it even though it is accepted by the church? Why should she suffer? Because she really does, you really have no idea. So do me a favor and stop commenting on things you do not know.

 

[Leontina]

I’ll pray for that priests soul. It really doesn’t mean much to say he was close to Pope Paul considering Pope Paul VI is the guy who wrote Humane Vitae that clearly spells out that contracepting is intrinsically evil and thus unjustifiable, period.

Pope Paul VI, Humane Vitae

The Canadian bishops who said something similar to the effect of “just follow your conscience” were also rebuked and later took back their comments and reiterated their support for Church teaching.

 

[Leontina]

I think NFP is a form of contraception and it is like we are playing games and splitting hairs. I feel like I spent my whole life trying to understand this issue.

I know Paul VI wrote the encyclical on birth control. That is why I chose a priest who worked with him. I prayed a long time in the church that God would finally let this world renowned jesuit help me and I would get some final guidance. I was blown away that after hearing my confession and issues he very gently and compassionately advised me. He and God alone know my conscience (I work on it everyday). I do not think the devil was in that confessional.

We must show more mercy and love than judgment about who is going to hell when that person is struggling. My Jesus is very compassionate. Too many of the responses on this site indicate just about everyone I know is going to hell.

Peace

 

[Curious_Seed]

Multiple demoninations are a measure of disunity.

You speak of conformity as a bad thing. If God reveals truth to you, you conform to it! Catholic’s are not so (or at least I’m not) because we have a psychological need for conformity, as a crutch, but because we respond to God’s truth. Whether you like it or not, we are all called to conform to God’s will.

If you think that the tens of thousands of different protestant denominations (or even just the key half dozen) have come about because the Holy Spirit has guided each of their founders in a certain way, then you need to familiarise yourself with the law of non-contradiction.

I love the Catholic Church, and I love the major Protestant Churches.

To me, it is all Christian, and united where it is essential, and different where it is appropriate.

You said the Holy Spirit directs the Protestant Churches, did you not?

 

[davidv]

I love the Catholic Church, and I love the major Protestant Churches.

To me, it is all Christian, and united where it is essential, and different where it is appropriate.

You said the Holy Spirit directs the Protestant Churches, did you not?

From my reading of underacloud’s posts, he(she) did not say that.

 

[underacloud]

From my reading of underacloud’s posts, he(she) did not say that.

That is correct. My earlier comments were intended to be clearly sarcastic, although I apologise if they were not clear enough.

I certainly do not believe that the Holy Spirit guided protestants away from the Church. I certainly do not believe that the Holy Spirits guides protestants in areas with which they differ from Rome.

I certainly do believe that the Holy Spirit attempts to guide each individual protestant (and all of us) and that they/we each respond to such guidance. I have many protestant friends, many of whom I admire and I aspire to live my faith as fully as they live theirs.

 

[Nate13]

Actually my wife has tried everything else, nothing has the effectiveness of YAZ. It really messes her up for about a week out of the month, why do people have a problem with it even though it is accepted by the church? Why should she suffer? Because she really does, you really have no idea. So do me a favor and stop commenting on things you do not know.

I was answering someone elses question regarding this, not commenting on the treatment your wife is using… I clearly stated earlier the Church supports your wife in using Yaz if that is what is effective at treating the disorder. I know there are other methods of treating it out there that work for some people, and that is why I suggested that you find a pro-life doctor who would be more likely to know about other methods if your wife was not happy with using yaz…

 

[brendenseth]

So if yaz allows the egg to be fertilized, it just stops it from implanting. Wouldn’t that be far worse than if I just used a condom? I never really looked into yaz until now, but my wife does ovulate on it. So I don’t know what to do, if I used condoms than there would be a guaranteed no fertilization. My wife needs that drug, because even now while she is breastfeeding it’s like a war zone. But she can’t start it while she breastfeeds, and that is our number 1 priority. Or should I learn about NFP, and do that even while she is on the pill?

 

[Corki]

So if yaz allows the egg to be fertilized, it just stops it from implanting. Wouldn’t that be far worse than if I just used a condom? I never really looked into yaz until now, but my wife does ovulate on it. So I don’t know what to do, if I used condoms than there would be a guaranteed no fertilization. My wife needs that drug, because even now while she is breastfeeding it’s like a war zone. But she can’t start it while she breastfeeds, and that is our number 1 priority. Or should I learn about NFP, and do that even while she is on the pill?

If your wife knows that she is still ovulating, especially if it happens with any frequency, you should probably encourage her to keep looking for alternate medical intervention. Yaz, and all oral contraceptives, are supposed to allow “break through ovulation” only rarely. If it’s not rare, the drug isn’t working right.

Also, your wife might want to discuss with her doctor how breastfeeding is affecting all this. While breastfeeding is preferred, it isn’t ideal for everyone and babies live perfectly healthy lives with no, or shortened breastfeeding. It may be that, when you weigh ALL the variables, it is better for your wife to be on some form of drug therapy even if it means she can’t breastfeed.

 

[ryecroft]

Use of condoms is forbidden under all circumstances.
Anyone who knows this and still uses a condom commits a mortal sin and if they die suddenly then they go to Hell.
Church teaching is very clear. Anyone who dies in a state of mortal sin goes to Hell.

Sorry as far as I’ve been taught, God is the ONLY one who can say for sure if someone is going to Hell.

Also if this woman is on any pill or Yaz for PMDD and not to just prevent pregnancy - it’s licit - it’s allowed by the church - regardless of what may be a possible out come.

God Bless
Rye

With all the talk of pills being abortifacients - WHY does no one bring up the fact that with all women, it is not odd for the body to naturally keep some fertilized eggs from implanting - you can’t tell the difference AND it is a possible consequence with CERTAIN progesterone/estrogen pills among others- no one can say for sure if this wouldn’t happen anyway. I’m not pro abortion - I’m just saying all the facts need to be put out there.

 

[Ron_Conte]

Sorry as far as I’ve been taught, God is the ONLY one who can say for sure if someone is going to Hell.

The Magisterium has infallibly taught that anyone who dies unrepentant from actual mortal sin certainly goes to Hell. (Pope Benedict XII, On the Beatific Vision of God; Council of Florence, 6 July 1439.)

Also if this woman is on any pill or Yaz for PMDD and not to just prevent pregnancy - it’s licit - it’s allowed by the church - regardless of what may be a possible out come.

The Magisterium teaches no such thing. The Church has never taught that a woman may choose to use abortifacient contraception AND choose to remain sexually active, despite the abortive and contraceptive ends of this act, merely to fulfill a medical purpose.

The CCC, the Compendium, and Veritatis Splendor all teach that to be moral an act must have only good intentions, only good in the moral object, and the bad consequences must not outweigh the good consequences. It is a serious doctrinal error to claim that any act is morally licit “regardless of what may be a possible outcome”. The reasonably anticipated consequences of our acts affect the morality of our decisions.

In the case of choosing to use abortifacient contraception AND choosing to continue to be sexually active, the bad consequences of multiple deaths of one’s own conceived children FAR OUTWEIGHS the good of being able to continue having marital relations. So the act would be gravely immoral even if it were “indirect” abortion.

But the Magisterium teaches that the use of abortifacient contraception is intrinsically evil, and so is always immoral, regardless of the purpose for which the act was chosen.

Humanae Vitae specifically teaches that direct abortion is not justified by therapeutic reasons: “all direct abortion, even for therapeutic reasons, are to be absolutely excluded” (HV 14). Therefore, the medical purpose of using abortifacient contraception does not change the act into indirect abortion.

In addition, the USCCB and the Holy See have both condemned “the objective immorality of contraceptive (direct) sterilization even if done for medical reasons”, again proving that an intrinsically evil act (such as contraception, sterilization, or abortion) is not justified by a medical purpose, nor is it transformed from direct to indirect by a medical purpose. (NCCB, Statement on Tubal Ligation; CDF, Quaecumque Sterilizatio)

Pope John Paul II: “No circumstance, no purpose, no law whatsoever can ever make licit an act which is intrinsically illicit, since it is contrary to the Law of God which is written in every human heart, knowable by reason itself, and proclaimed by the Church.” (The Gospel of Life, 62)

With all the talk of pills being abortifacients - WHY does no one bring up the fact that with all women, it is not odd for the body to naturally keep some fertilized eggs from implanting - you can’t tell the difference AND it is a possible consequence with CERTAIN progesterone/estrogen pills among others- no one can say for sure if this wouldn’t happen anyway. I’m not pro abortion - I’m just saying all the facts need to be put out there.

If a prenatal dies by failing to implant, but without any action or decision on the part of anyone, then the death is accidental; no one sinned. But if a prenatal dies as a direct result of a decision to use abortifacients, then the death is not accidental; it is a grave sin.

If you directly kill someone, by your own knowing choice, you cannot justify that act by saying that perhaps the person would have died anyway, by accidental death, if you had not acted.

Pope John Paul II: “The close connection which exists, in mentality, between the practice of contraception and that of abortion is becoming increasingly obvious. It is being demonstrated in an alarming way by the development of chemical products, intrauterine devices and vaccines which, distributed with the same ease as contraceptives, really act as abortifacients in the very early stages of the development of the life of the new human being.” (Gospel of Life, 13)