Questions about Catholics honoring Mary

[Tis_Bearself]

The problem with framing this as “Seeking the Truth” is that we have already stated the truth here, over and over, which is that

Catholics Do Not Worship Mary

and

Approved Prayers of the Church Do Not Constitute Worshipping Mary

There is no “truth” to be sought, no question about this, no possibility that we are somehow wrong and are in fact worshipping Mary.

You have already been answered on this point multiple times including by a priest.

Muting now as there is nothing more that needs to be said.

 

[The_One_Duck]

Catholics Do Not Worship Mary

and

Approved Prayers of the Church Do Not Constitute Worshipping Mary

There is no “truth” to be sought, no question about this, no possibility that we are somehow wrong and are in fact worshipping Mary.

You have already been answered on this point multiple times including by a priest.

Muting now as there is nothing more that needs to be said.

We know Catholics don’t worship Mary. We have said that several times already. However, how is one reading these prayers NOT to take it as worship? Again, not to offend anyone, but what I am seeing now is that us Catholics claim not to worship Mary, but some of us do. It genuinely saddens me to have these doubts, as I would like nothing more than to have a good explanation. God bless you

 

[Pai_Nosso]

Again, not to offend anyone, but what I am seeing now is that us Catholics claim not to worship Mary, but some of us do. It genuinely saddens me to have these doubts, as I would like nothing more than to have a good explanation. God bless you

I really feel for u. I know the struggles you are facing and the disheartening you are experiencing. I was saddened to the point of tears many times. The more I tried to find good explinations or understand the ones being used the more disheartened I got and the more questionable things I found. So I just gave up trying to understand and kept on my way of pray and worship God through our Lord Jesus. My concerns were/are for my family who are heavily devoted to Fátima.

To many people there are good explinations I’m not sure if u will find your definition of a good explination but. It seems u have 3 options.

1/ You can keep your devotion to Mary if u have a very high level of faith in these teachings of the RCC. The Trinity is a mystery but we believe it right. U don’t have to understand it to believe it. Maybe modify your prayer so u don’t feel like it’s worship.
2/ You can decide to pray to God without Mary. That’s what I did.
3/ Or you can keep searching for the good explinations you seek but I’m sad to suggest that anguish most likely awaits you here. I hope I’m wrong.

I hope the Holy Spirit guides you on your journey my friend

 

[Isearch]

Worship or latria, in classical Orthodox/Catholic sense, is offering a sacrifice on an altar or in a sacred space. This is why the offering of the Eucharist is seen as the official worship of both Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. Notice that it is to God alone is the Eucharist being offered.

So sing or chant to your heart’s content the Salve Regina, because most evangelical protestants aren’t worshipping God anyway according to the classical sense.

 

[The_One_Duck]

I really feel for u. I know the struggles you are facing and the disheartening you are experiencing. I was saddened to the point of tears many times. The more I tried to find good explinations or understand the ones being used the more disheartened I got and the more questionable things I found. So I just gave up trying to understand and kept on my way of pray and worship God through our Lord Jesus. My concerns were/are for my family who are heavily devoted to Fátima.

To many people there are good explinations I’m not sure if u will find your definition of a good explination but. It seems u have 3 options.

1/ You can keep your devotion to Mary if u have a very high level of faith in these teachings of the RCC. The Trinity is a mystery but we believe it right. U don’t have to understand it to believe it. Maybe modify your prayer so u don’t feel like it’s worship.
2/ You can decide to pray to God without Mary. That’s what I did.
3/ Or you can keep searching for the good explinations you seek but I’m sad to suggest that anguish most likely awaits you here. I hope I’m wrong.

I hope the Holy Spirit guides you on your journey my friend

Thank you for your kind words. I will keep my devotion to Mary, because I believe that a devotion to Mary is the right thing to do: Jesus Himself had quite a high devotion to His mother. The only thing I am concerned about is the prayers of consecration to Mary, which do seem like worship. I am very open minded, and would love to here any explanation. God bless you, my friend

 

[The_One_Duck]

Worship or latria, in classical Orthodox/Catholic sense, is offering a sacrifice on an altar or in a sacred space. This is why the offering of the Eucharist is seen as the official worship of both Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. Notice that it is to God alone is the Eucharist being offered.

So sing or chant to your heart’s content the Salve Regina , because most evangelical protestants aren’t worshipping God anyway according to the classical sense

This is a very good explanation. It also makes perfect sense, however it saddens me that most Novus Ordo Masses cease to be a SACRIFICE and it seems more like a celebration. There is a time and place to celebrate, but Mass is also called “the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass”, in which case “celebrating” is not the time. God bless you

 

[ThomasMT]

Thank you for your response.

My question isn’t whether or not I’m required to say this prayer, or whether or not I’m required to consecrate myself in such a manner, nor is it intended to do anything but “leave other people and their prayers alone.” I understand very well the answer to the first two points, and on my last, I am not trying to harass anyone, least of all you.

Tis_Bearself, you seem to regard yourself as an elder. I respect your wisdom, and I know that you have a lot of knowledge to offer. I just really wish that you could temper your emotions so as to objectively evaluate my posts, without expressing frustration or offense. Perhaps you are a very busy person and don’t really have the time to read them as thoroughly as you should. Perhaps you simply don’t respect any opinion, question or concern but your own. I don’t know. But I do know that I grow weary of your mischaracterizations. On that note, I conclude my exchanges with you on yet another thread.

And for the record…

Not to put words in his mouth, but I think he is saying that he has no trouble consecrating himself to Mary, nor do I; he simply has trouble believing that these words are NOT to be taken as worship.

Looks like a fairly simply question to me. I’m not questioning other people’s intent, with such prayers. That’s their business. My question is about what to make of them for myself and my family, and how to answer critisism that they constitute direct worship. And yes, I am very, VERY well aware that the church’s official position is that we do NOT worship Mary. Thank you and have a great day.

 

[ThomasMT]

But if I were to pretend to be a Protestant, and I read some of these prayers, what would that honestly make me think, and how would a Catholic prove to me that these are NOT prayers of worship?

Thank you for taking the time to consider my concerns. I actually have a protestant friend, with whom I discuss theology on occasion. One of his chief concerns with Catholicism is… you guessed it, apparent Marian worship.

I seek to defend the catholic faith, not attack it. I have been diving into apologetics for this reason.
No, I certainly wouldn’t prove a single thing to a Protestant by dismissing the question and lashing out out him for expecting a little clarity.

Outside of this forum, I really don’t have much opportunity for q&a sessions of this nature. I appreciate your words of encouragement.

 

[The_One_Duck]

But if I were to pretend to be a Protestant, and I read some of these prayers, what would that honestly make me think, and how would a Catholic prove to me that these are NOT prayers of worship?

I want to say firsthand that I appreciate you for your patience and politeness. When a Protestant says something like “What’s the big deal with Mary? Is it true you Catholics worship her?”. I say “No, we honor and venerate her like no other saint because of one simple reason: she deserves it”. There is no way someone can claim that she does NOT deserve the respect we show her. Mary did not have an easy life. Think about it. As Catholics we believe that Mary was born without original sin, meaning Mary never sinned, right? Now, the Bible gives no indication on how old she was. If I recall correctly, it was not unusual for someone to get married at 16 years old. Can you imagine everyone’s reaction when they find out Mary was pregnant? Mary then had to watch Jesus be slandered by the Jews, and be crucified.
I believe without a doubt that Mary deserves every respect we can give. Actually, I would encourage you to read some quotes written by the FATHERS OF PROTESTANTISM concerning Mary, as they would actually agree that Mary certainly deserves honor. Thanks again, I truly am enjoying this conversation.

 

[Catholic361]

Is there anything wrong with honoring Mary, because I ware the miraculous metal and say the rosary at night is this blasphemy or dishonoring the position of Christ as our Lord and saviour?

 

[The_One_Duck]

Is there anything wrong with honoring Mary, because I ware the miraculous metal and say the rosary at night is this blasphemy or dishonoring the position of Christ as our Lord and saviour?

No, there is absolutely nothing wrong with honoring Mary. Praying the Rosary is a good thing to do.

 

[Pai_Nosso]

Is there anything wrong with honoring Mary, because I ware the miraculous metal and say the rosary at night is this blasphemy or dishonoring the position of Christ as our Lord and saviour?

Mate don’t be like that pls. No one said there is anything wrong with honouring Mary or that it was blasphemy. Please try to learn to discern between someone who is attacking Catholicism to a Catholic who is asking questions.

Do you wish to help a fellow Catholic with such questions? If so can u please work on an approach that would facilitate that.

Your response is fit for a protestant who is attacking the RCC. But for a Catholic requiring guidance it can be really disheartening.

 

[Catholic361]

I meant no disrespect I am a covert to the faith so I’m still learning about our faith and understanding of it.

 

[ThomasMT]

I wholeheartedly agree with your perspective. I also share your appreciation and enthusiasm for level-headed, fruitful discussion.

In my own understanding, there is certainly a balanced approach to be maintained with regard to Marian devotion. When I myself meditate on the Blessed Mother or pray for her intercession, or simply pray the Rosary, I tend to think of her as praying with me. Sometimes as praying for me. At other times I pray as a request (especially through the Rosary, 7 sorrows chaplet, etc.) that the glory of her Son be revealed through her eyes, as she witnessed herself. It is extremely unlikely that any person ever loved Christ more than she did. Hence, I seek a taste of the love, devotion, loyalty, humility, piety, sacrifice, and enlightenment that she was blessed to experience herself. I pray that such piety inspires and seeds my own heart so as to bring me closer to Christ.

The other manner by which I maintain solace, with regard to my prior-mentioned concerns, is to leave my worries to the church. Jesus left the leadership with an extraordinary amount of authority. He knew what he was doing and He did this regardless of how flawed such human leadership could be. While the “binding and loosening” authority was granted within the context of forgiveness of sins, I believe that it offers discretion on a much wider range of issues. This includes endorsement of prayers, their wording and manners of devotion.

Still, the most fundamental question (the wording of some prayers) I still struggle to answer for non-Catholics. For myself, when I feel that I may be approaching a boundary, I simply ask the Lord for insight. “If what I am doing is somehow displeasing to you, O Lord, I beg that you let it be known to me. And let me not be deceived by any voice claiming to come from you, when it does not.”

 

[ThomasMT]

I’m still learning about our faith and understanding of it.

We all are. I’m grateful that we have a opportunity to do it together. Peace be with you

 

[JohnR77]

Mary is the new Eve

See CCC 411

 

[JohnR77]

On the definition of the word “pray” see website below and scroll down to “more details” and see quotations from King James Bible and Shakespeare.

Praying to the Saints

https://www.defendingthebride.com/ma3/only17.html

Mary the Woman

https://www.defendingthebride.com/ma4/women.html

John

 

[The_One_Duck]

Worship or latria, in classical Orthodox/Catholic sense, is offering a sacrifice on an altar or in a sacred space. This is why the offering of the Eucharist is seen as the official worship of both Roman Catholics and Eastern Orthodox. Notice that it is to God alone is the Eucharist being offered.

So sing or chant to your heart’s content the Salve Regina , because most evangelical protestants aren’t worshipping God anyway according to the classical sense

Just a heads up: I basically used this text almost word for word in a discussion I have. I hope you don’t feel as though I stole this from you. My apologies if you do.

 

[The_One_Duck]

i

O Mother worthy of all praise, you who have given birth to the Word, the Holiest of the Holy, accept this present offering, deliver all of us from ev’ry affliction, and save from the future punishment those who cry out to you: Alleluia! Alleluia, alleluia! Alleluia, Alleluia!

Ok, so down below someone answered me saying that the way Catholics worship, or Latria, is when an offering or sacrifice is made. He brought up the example of the Mass, that the Eucharist is offered only to God. Latria is when a sacrifice is made. Does this prayer imply that we DO offer sacrifices to Mary, in which case we really DO worship Mary?
Thanks for all your help

 

[Vico]

Vico:

i

O Mother worthy of all praise, you who have given birth to the Word, the Holiest of the Holy, accept this present offering, deliver all of us from ev’ry affliction, and save from the future punishment those who cry out to you: Alleluia! Alleluia, alleluia! Alleluia, Alleluia!

Ok, so down below someone answered me saying that the way Catholics worship, or Latria, is when an offering or sacrifice is made. He brought up the example of the Mass, that the Eucharist is offered only to God. Latria is when a sacrifice is made. Does this prayer imply that we DO offer sacrifices to Mary, in which case we really DO worship Mary?
Thanks for all your help

There is a difference between the words offering, oblation, and sacrifice. An oblation offers something to God, a sacrifice immolates or gives up what is offered. An offering does not have to be either a sacrifice or oblation.

We do worship the Blessed Virgin Mary and all the saints. Worship is of two kinds: adoration, given only to God, and veneration, given to other than God.

In adoration there are three acts:

• the recognition of God’s infinite perfection
• prayer or the asking for divine help,
• and sacrifice or the offering of something precious to God.

In veneration there are three forms:

• the angels and saints are honored for their sanctity,
• they are asked to intercede before the divine Majesty,
• and imitated in their love and service of God.

Etymology from Old English weorthscipe, honor, dignity, reverence: weorth , worth +ship.

(Ref: See Modern Catholic Dictionary, worship.)