Questions about Catholics honoring Mary

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The_One_Duck said:
@godisgood77, I would highly recommend you do research on this matter or read this or other threads, as it will help you strengthen your faith. I personally don’t think it is very wise to simply ignore these doctrines, and I mean absolutely no offense by this statement. Thanks to this website and the people on it, I can safely say that I now have better understanding of the Catholic faith.
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Thanks for you concern… I have spent a good amount of time on this particular subject and participated in many a thread on devotion to Mary; the question of co-redemption and mediatrix in particular. I participated in do not believe I’m misinformed, but am always open to learning.
 
Tis_Bearself said:
I tend to see a lot of Marian devotions as being “cultural Catholic” practices that are easier for people who grow up with them.
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Hmmm… I tend to think of the term cultural Catholic in a bit of a negative light… like a person who identifies as but does not actively practice the religion. Maybe still attend church at special occasions, such as Christmas, Easter, baptism, weddings and funerals, etc.

I think for many different Marian devotions, it is important to acknowledge the difference between the christocentric Marian doctrines or dogmas of the Church and devotions. For instance, the Divine Motherhood, the Assumption, the Immaculate Conception and Perpetual Virginity are all Dogmas of the Church and require assent from Catholics. Same for the truths stated in the Creed. Devotions on the other hand are things like saying the rosary or belief in an apparition, etc. The devotions can provide benefit for those who practice them, but they remain devotions and one can be a perfectly good Catholic without participating in them.
 
godisgood77 said:
I tend to think of the term cultural Catholic in a bit of a negative light…
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I use the website “CatholicCulture.org” every day to read the collect for the day and read about the saints and read other prayers. They don’t seem to have a problem with the word “Culture”.

I’m not going to let the words “Cultural Catholic” take on a negative tone. It was being a cultural Catholic, in large part, that brought me back to the Church after 18 years without a confession and with sporadic Mass attendance. I am a Catholic, by both baptism and culture, whether I practice or not. Not practicing simply makes me a lapsed, fallen-away, or “bad” Catholic. It’s like Jewish people consider themselves Jewish regardless of whether they are practicing. I am Catholic. I can’t change that any more than my cat can stop being a cat and turn into a bear. It’s what I am. It’s my culture. It’s me. And that’s not a bad or negative thing.

We need to own and celebrate our Catholic culture and not let somebody else take a word and make it another bad term and source of negativity and division.
 
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Cathoholic said:
The_One_Duck . . .
Another thing I am confused on is co mediatrix. I am sure we can all agree that the Bible says there is one mediator between God and man and that mediator is Jesus. My understanding is that co mediatrix almost completely contradicts this teaching.
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I like it, thank you very much.
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CCC 971 tells us “liturgical feasts dedicated to the Mother of God”.
 
JM3 said:
And yet Catholics do exactly that with the word ‘worship’, as devotion is a definition of worship (transitive verb I believe). It makes me sad to see Catholics say they do not worship Mary, when by the definition of worship they do.
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It makes me sad to see Protestants dictate to me that my behavior is worship, as if I’m too dumb to know the difference between how I speak and act with God and how I speak and act with one of His creatures, or that I don’t know what I’m doing. It’s incredibly condescending.
 
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Hyperdulia is not worship. The Church is pretty clear on this.
As Fauken said, it’s condesceding and patronizing to have non-Catholics, or even ither Catholics, tell me when I’m worshipping and when I’m not. I’m quite aware of what I am doing.
 
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theorangeandblue said:
Honestly the way the memorare is said it sounds like worship the way it is worded. Since it sounds like a prayer.

Telling Mary but in thy mercy hear and answer me in my opinion sounds like prayer. Which could be considered worship.
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Did you read the posts others made about this? Especially @edward_george1’s?
edward_george1 said:
“Despise not our petitions,” meaning the petitions we offer Mary so that she may intercede for us. If you petition me or the court or the government to ask for something, you might think the same thing.
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theorangeandblue said:
Jesus answered him it is written you shall worship the Lord your God and serve Him only

Luke 4:8
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Fauken said:
It makes me sad to see Protestants dictate to me that my behavior is worship, as if I’m too dumb to know the difference between how I speak and act with God and how I speak and act with one of His creatures, or that I don’t know what I’m doing. It’s incredibly condescending.
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It the abstract, the revolt was arrogance - it assumed to know more; to be more enlightened; more spiritually aware; more theologically correct than any and all preceding Popes and Councils.

In the 80s, we all heard of “trickle down economics” - what we see today is trickle down condescension.
 
The_One_Duck said:
Oh ok I think I see what your saying. But what does the Bible mean when it says Jesus is the only mediator? What, then, is Jesus the mediator of? Thanks for your help
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Jesus is the “one mediator between God and man,” being both. Mary, along with you and I, is on the human side of the line, but we can all serve as lesser mediators.
 
tafan2 said:
Mostly the part in the Hail Holy queen prayer: " Our Life". All the other ones don’t really trouble me at all. I always though that Jesus was life. I think this is what confuses me.
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tafan2:
What part of those two prayers give you pause?
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Ok, I’m really not looking to offend any of the loyal Marian devotees, but I do struggle with some of the consecration prayers. I understand that the intent is not to worship the Blessed Virgin, and I also understand that as Catholics we all take offense to being accused of doing just that. But let’s be realistic about some of the wording in our prayers, and how it can understandably be perceived as worship.

Here is an excerpt from one… “We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life; all that we have, all that we love, all that we are.
To thee we give our bodies, our hearts and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families, our country.
We desire that all that is in us and around us may belong to thee, and may share in the benefits of thy motherly benediction.”

I dread the idea of offending the Blessed Mother. I dread even more the idea of offending our Lord. I do not want to end up in hell any more than anyone else here. But for goodness sake, with such all-encompassing offerings that I had already (and rightly) made to God, shall I take them back and give them to Mary?

I beg the Lord for forgiveness if such questioning is ill-conceived. I simply seek the truth.
 
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The_One_Duck said:
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tafan2:
Mostly the part in the Hail Holy queen prayer: " Our Life". All the other ones don’t really trouble me at all. I always though that Jesus was life. I think this is what confuses me.
tafan2 said:
What part of those two prayers give you pause?
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The Son of God’s saving, redeeming work was realized because of Mary’s willing acceptance of virginal birth-giving through the power of the Holy Spirit, so we can do nothing other than acknowledge and celebrate her role in God’s economy of salvation with joy and conviction in the services of the Church. For example in the Byzantine Catholic Akathist we sing:
May Christ our true God, [risen from the dead,] have mercy on us and save us through the prayers of his most pure Mother and of the holy, glorious, and illustrious apostles, [through the prayers of St. (Name,) whom we commemorate today,] and of all the saints; for Christ is good and loves us all.
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And also:
Rejoice, O you who saved us from the mire of evil deeds. …
Refrain: Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden ever pure! Rejoice, O Bride and Maiden ever pure!
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Kontakion 13
O Mother worthy of all praise, you who have given birth to the Word, the Holiest of the Holy, accept this present offering, deliver all of us from ev’ry affliction, and save from the future punishment those who cry out to you: Alleluia! Alleluia, alleluia! Alleluia, Alleluia!
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You’re not required to consecrate yourself to Mary. It’s optional. If you don’t like the prayers or the idea, don’t do it. Marian consecration, unlike the Rosary or the Hail Holy Queen, is also not something you’re likely to run into at church or among whole groups of Catholics praying the prayer.

If somebody else wants to do it and doesn’t mind the prayer, then it’s not your place to say, “I have a problem with your optional devotion”. Leave other people and their prayers alone.

Given that these types of prayers in one form or another have been said for several hundred years (since the time of de Montfort up through the time of Kolbe and continuing today with Gaitley’s book etc) I’m pretty sure if there was a “truth” problem that a Pope would have taken care of it by now.
 
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ThomasMT said:
Ok, I’m really not looking to offend any of the loyal Marian devotees, but I do struggle with some of the consecration prayers. I understand that the intent is not to worship the Blessed Virgin, and I also understand that as Catholics we all take offense to being accused of doing just that. But let’s be realistic about some of the wording in our prayers, and how it can understandably be perceived as worship.

Here is an excerpt from one… “We consecrate to thee our very being and our whole life; all that we have, all that we love, all that we are.
To thee we give our bodies, our hearts and our souls; to thee we give our homes, our families, our country.
We desire that all that is in us and around us may belong to thee, and may share in the benefits of thy motherly benediction.”

I dread the idea of offending the Blessed Mother. I dread even more the idea of offending our Lord. I do not want to end up in hell any more than anyone else here. But for goodness sake, with such all-encompassing offerings that I had already (and rightly) made to God, shall I take them back and give them to Mary?
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Tis_Bearself said:
You’re not required to consecrate yourself to Mary. It’s optional. If you don’t like the prayers or the idea, don’t do it. Marian consecration, unlike the Rosary or the Hail Holy Queen, is also not something you’re likely to run into at church or among whole groups of Catholics praying the prayer.

If somebody else wants to do it and doesn’t mind the prayer, then it’s not your place to say, “I have a problem with your optional devotion”. Leave other people and their prayers alone.

Given that these types of prayers in one form or another have been said for several hundred years (since the time of de Montfort up through the time of Kolbe and continuing today with Gaitley’s book etc) I’m pretty sure if there was a “truth” problem that a Pope would have taken care of it by now.
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What ThomasMT is saying describes exactly what I mean. Not to put words in his mouth, but I think he is saying that he has no trouble consecrating himself to Mary, nor do I; he simply has trouble believing that these words are NOT to be taken as worship. I believe devotion to Mary is a great thing, but like the rest of you, I don’t believe in worshiping her. But if I were to pretend to be a Protestant, and I read some of these prayers, what would that honestly make me think, and how would a Catholic prove to me that these are NOT prayers of worship?

ThomasMT I want to say, don’t worry about offending anyone. I have trouble believing that Our Lord or Mary will be offended by you simply seeking the truth. Never did you say anything blasphemous or disrespectful. This is a good, honest question, and I refuse to believe that anyone in Heaven will take offense to you asking it. Having questions and seeking answers about your faith is a good thing, and you will not end up in hell for it.

once again, I am Catholic, and if there is confusion on this I want to clear it now: I am NOT a Protestant.
 
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