Questions About Celibacy in the Clergy

[ralfyman]

By “poor,” I mean those in Africa, Asia, and Latin America, where there is significant growth in Catholic populations.

For example, for countries like the Philippines, there is a significant lack of priests, almost no deacons, a lack of Churches, chapels, and equipment and/or utilities (like electricity), etc. But even with a high poverty rate (officially, around 25-40 pct, but likely up to 80 pct, together with the rest of the developing world) there are still lay people volunteering as ministers or missionaries.

 

[FrancisFan43]

http://www.unamsanctamcatholicam.co...07-pope-and-priestly-marriage-st-bridget.html

Revelations of St. Bridget , Book VII, Chapter 10

[the Blessed Virgin Mary to Saint Bridget]
Know this too: that if some pope concedes to priests a license to contract carnal marriage, God will condemn him to a sentence as great, in a spiritual way, as that which the law justly inflicts in a corporeal way on a man who has transgressed so gravely that he must have his eyes gouged out, his tongue and lips, nose and ears cut off, his hands and feet amputated, all his body’s blood spilled out to grow completely cold, and finally, his whole bloodless corpse cast out to be devoured by dogs and other wild beasts. Similar things would truly happen in a spiritual way to that pope who were to go against the aforementioned preordinance and will of God and concede to priests such a license to contract marriage.

For that same pope would be totally deprived by God of his spiritual sight and hearing, and of his spiritual words and deeds. All his spiritual wisdom would grow completely cold; and finally, after his death, his soul would be cast out to be tortured eternally in hell so that there it might become the food of demons everlastingly and without end. Yes, even if Saint Gregory the Pope had made this statute, in the aforesaid sentence he would never have obtained mercy from God if he had not humbly revoked his statute before his death.”

 

[po18guy]

By “poor,” I mean those in Africa, Asia, and Latin America, where there is significant growth in Catholic populations.

The seminaries in parts of Africa (such as Nigeria) are overflowing.

Isn’t this a non-problem?

 

[ralfyman]

This implies that a rule concerning married priests will apply only to certain countries.

 

[Wesrock]

I was assuming that since the Magisterium made this decision, and therefore, according to the Roman Catholic Church it is equal in authority to Scripture, that’s why I reasoned as I did.

Apostolic Tradition is equal to and doesn’t contradict scripture. The Magisterium doesn’t create doctrine, it authoritatively interprets scripture and apostolic tradition in matters of faith and morals, and can infallible do so.

Not all matters of praxis and administration are doctrines. Disciplines refer are basically “standard practice” under that are currently the norm under canon law, which is open to change. However, as a norm, the Church has very good reasons, including theological reasons if not doctrinal, for keeping it the norm in the west.

 

[1ke]

There are rare circumstances where a Bishop can allow a Priest to be married. It’s not common but there are such situations.

Correction:

There are some circumstances where a married man can be ordained to the priesthood, not the other way around. Priests cannot marry.

These situations where married men become Latin priests are mainly confined to Anglican and Lutheran clergy who convert to the Catholic Church.

 

[goout]

In my lay opinion, which means nothing…
The Church must address issues as they are, not as we would like them to be. We can’t wish for a false perfection that doesn’t exist. There are serious evils that have pervaded clerical culture. And there are several factors that have combined to make that stew.
In light of those current conditions existing in clerical culture, the discipline needs to be looked at in it’s entirety, and all legitimate options considered.

To not seriously consider all legitimate options is foolish, and Christ does not call us to be fools.
(There are too many Catholic commentators who reflexively dismiss changes in this discipline because “we’ve always done it this way and change is scary…etc”)

 

[dochawk]

There are some circumstances where a married man can be ordained to the priesthood, not the other way around. Priests cannot marry.

There are very rare cases in which priests have been given permission to marry. Both EC and EO priests with very young children have been given permission to do so for the sake of the children (again, this is “count on fingers” rare), and there are cases where RC priests converted to Russian Orthodoxy and were allowed to marry on the grounds that they were “wrongfully denied” the opportunity to do so before ordination.

 

[OrbisNonSufficit]

There are very rare cases in which priests have been given permission to marry. Both EC and EO priests with very young children have been given permission to do so for the sake of the children (again, this is “count on fingers” rare), and there are cases where RC priests converted to Russian Orthodoxy and were allowed to marry on the grounds that they were “wrongfully denied” the opportunity to do so before ordination.

I would just like to add that same would be true for some Latin Permanent Deacons, (they are not Priests but should not re-marry if their spouse dies either). There are cases where they can get re-married for sake of children, though it is pretty rare too.

 

[dochawk]

I’ve been told that it’s almost pro forma to get that permission in the US for the RCC. (the context was someone trying to recruit me, and my noting that I know that I’d be non-functional if something happened to my wife, and unable to not marry again . . .)

 

[Lazybones]

The council of Elvira (Spain) in 305AD mentions Apostolic tradition in priestly celibacy. Specifically. This thought that it’s a recent development is ignorance.

Marriage is not a vocation, OP. Marriage is the natural order and the basis of society.

God hasn’t given you conflicting desires.

 

[AlbMagno]

Marriage is the natural order and the basis of society.

That’s true. However, marriage is also a vocation. Some people are called by God to form a family.

 

[dochawk]

This thought that it’s a recent development is ignorance.

As would the thought that this local synod represented universal Church practice . . .

In fact, the very reference in the canon to married bishops with living wives in the fourth century is eye-catching, as both East and West did universally stop selecting married men more than a century earlier . . .

 

[niceatheist]

The fundamental issue was that in the newly converted kingdoms, priests functioned as the civil service. They were frequently the only literate people in a kingdom, the only ones versed in law, and with that came extraordinary power. If they had been able to marry, those offices could have been passed on, as that was the way succession worked in most of the Germanic kingdoms. Thus they would have represented a significant political threat to the rulers of these newly converted kingdoms, and it’s likely that they would have not been welcome at all.

There was also the issue of divided loyalties. Priests who could have passed on high offices to their children would certainly have been far less loyal to Rome.