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Angelos
Guest
Denial will not make what’s real unreal through magic
Wise men know that reliance on denial will be tragic
I am on the verge of being a poet again
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Wise men know that reliance on denial will be tragic
I am on the verge of being a poet again
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planten
Guest
**That ex Muslim Mumin saleh had no idea of what he was talking about. We have the Quran, the actual original text which was revealed on the heart of Muhammad. It is in high class arabic language. The Arabic language is the mother of all other languages. All languages had been derived from Arabic. Arabic is the living language.
And we have the various translations of the Quran. Some may be good and some not so good. There is always room for improvement. If we make any change in the translation then we have the original Quran with us to check up and support it with proof.
But there is no such thing for the bible. There is no original bible available for comparison or check up. May I say that we have noticed some serious mistakes in the translations of the Quran which has misled the western world and they had the chance to accuse Islam as being a harsh religion. That was because of laxed translation of the word “Kafir” and the word “Aulia”. That has made so much difference and brought bad name to Islam. That matter has been (is being) corrected now. Thanks to Allah.**
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scipio337
Guest
Nor is there any “original Quran”, like the Bible, it was compiled well after its founder’s death, and over a period of many years.
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planten
Guest
** That is right. There was no Quran as we have it today. But it was all written down during the life of the prophet by various scribes on pieces of leather and wood and bones. It was dictated by the prophet and the scribes wrote it.
It was being recited during prayers every day. There were many (hundreds of) persons who had remembered it by heart. When prophet died, Quran was present even though not in the present good form.
The first representative (Kalifah) of the prophet ordered for the compilation into a book form. It finally appeared in a book form and copies were made of the Quran during the time of the third Caliph (Uthman). That was only about 20 years after the death of the prophet.
Not like bible which was not dictated by Jesus. Which was not written in his time.
Not like bible which was written in unknown time (60 to 80 years)and finally appeared in its shape after 305 years. Please see the difference.**
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inJESUS
Guest
Earth calling Planten 
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Angelos
Guest
Where is your evidence that today’s Koran was the same as the one compiled by the first Khaliph? Where is your evidence that the Koran was not distorted by those reciting it? Where is your evidence that the Koran remained the same during Omar’s reign??Where is your evidence that Mohammad endorsed today’s Koran as authentic?
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planten
Guest
The evidence is that it was being memorized and recited in the prayers during the 20 years life of the prophet. The recitation was open and loud in the presence of many people who also knew the words.
This chain of the memorizers is also not broken from the very first day till now. At present there are many hundred thousand persons who know the whole Quran by heart. Thanks for asking.
This chain of the memorizers is also not broken from the very first day till now. At present there are many hundred thousand persons who know the whole Quran by heart. Thanks for asking.
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cathopologist
Guest
Something that might interest you, planten:
By the standards of contemporary biblical scholarship, most of the questions being posed by scholars like Puin and Rippin are rather modest; outside an Islamic context, proposing that the Koran has a history and suggesting that it can be interpreted metaphorically are not radical steps. But the Islamic context—and Muslim sensibilities—cannot be ignored. “To historicize the Koran would in effect delegitimize the whole historical experience of the Muslim community,”…**What Is the Koran?
Excerpt: **
These inscriptions differ to some degree from the version of the Koran that has been handed down through the centuries, suggesting, scholars say, that the Koran may have still been evolving in the last decade of the seventh century. Moreover, much of what we know as Islam – the lives and sayings of the Prophet – is based on texts from between 130 and 300 years after Muhammad’s death.Scholars Are Quietly Offering New Theories of the Koran
Excerpt:
By the standards of contemporary biblical scholarship, most of the questions being posed by scholars like Puin and Rippin are rather modest; outside an Islamic context, proposing that the Koran has a history and suggesting that it can be interpreted metaphorically are not radical steps. But the Islamic context—and Muslim sensibilities—cannot be ignored. “To historicize the Koran would in effect delegitimize the whole historical experience of the Muslim community,”…**What Is the Koran?
Excerpt: **
These inscriptions differ to some degree from the version of the Koran that has been handed down through the centuries, suggesting, scholars say, that the Koran may have still been evolving in the last decade of the seventh century. Moreover, much of what we know as Islam – the lives and sayings of the Prophet – is based on texts from between 130 and 300 years after Muhammad’s death.Scholars Are Quietly Offering New Theories of the Koran
Excerpt:
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inJESUS
Guest
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Angelos
Guest
You cannot make use of an assumption while trying to prove another assumption, dear planten. There is no evidence showing that those people recited the Koran everyday. Actually, textual variations and linguistic problems in the Koran tell us that those people were not good at memorising the Koran or that they intentionally tampered with the verses taught them.
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inJESUS
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cathopologist
Guest
Just my two cents: The Bible has been brutally picked apart by scholars of every kind, yet Christians all over the world have kept their cool and know in their hearts that whatever such “scholars” throw at them, they will still love their faith. Sadly, i have noticed the West (especially) has carefully avoided doing the same with the Qu’ran. With the exception of the German scientists (see my links in previous post). When will scholars grow a backbone to tell devout Muslims that Mohammed may not have actually written every word of the Qu’ran straight from the mouth of the angel Gabriel; or that the houris they have been anticipating in heaven are in fact white grapes; or that the Qu’ran is a product of ancient plagiarism? How long can Muslims use threat, to intimidate scholars and thwart the search for truth? Are they going to run to the UN to complain everytime a non-Muslim scholar tries to dig into Islam’s past?
A religion ceases to be a religion if you are afraid of the truth, if you are weak in faith. When fear takes over, all your prophets and revered people in your religious texts would have lost its self respect.
A religion ceases to be a religion if you are afraid of the truth, if you are weak in faith. When fear takes over, all your prophets and revered people in your religious texts would have lost its self respect.
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Lapell
Guest
Is it a joke, planten, or are you serious? In the case of the latter, where please?
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Lapell
Guest
Well, well!!.. Very interesting indeed!
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Charlie_Zeaiter
Guest
I really want to say something, but I just don’t know what to say.
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cathopologist
Guest
You are a master of the Taqiyya, you know that? As a non-Christian school boy in a Presbyterian-run school, my Muslim classmates had the advantage of skipping Friday chapel service and were allowed to attend the Friday mosque prayers. Even though, everyone knew that only a handful would attend the mosque. The rest would go elsewhere like the malls.
Not a single one of my teachers had ever, ever abused Muslims. Nor did they teach the things you claim. Usually i would be the first one to jump at Protestants, but in this case, i’m actually standing up for them.
My wife attended a Catholic-run school. She too has never heard of any teachers saying anything bad about Islam. In fact, Islam was never a topic. And the school also had Muslims studying in it. I’m sorry to say this, but you’re really full of it.
On the other hand, i remember mosques in Singapore were handing out pamphlets to Malay-Muslims. It caused quite a stir because the pamphlet discouraged Muslims to befriend Christians. It claims that Christians prayed to a goddess and lived a “haram” lifestyle". I wish i kept the newspaper clipping but that was 20 years ago.
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dolphinlove
Guest
oh planten, you make me smile
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planten
Guest
**It is not a joke. I have surely read the case of a few converts who had admitted to regular course Muslim bashing during their training at the church. Just believe it. I myself am not one of them. That was something like their own confession. **
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planten
Guest
That special training of Muslim bashing was not done in normal schools. It was done in the missionary schools who get training to become a Padre. Of course, the muslim boys do things. They are young and may try to hood wink the teacher. It is also true that the teacher will never abuse Islam. Why he/she would do it.You are a master of the Taqiyya, you know that? As a non-Christian school boy in a Presbyterian-run school, my Muslim classmates had the advantage of skipping Friday chapel service and were allowed to attend the Friday mosque prayers. Even though, everyone knew that only a handful would attend the mosque. The rest would go elsewhere like the malls.
Not a single one of my teachers had ever, ever abused Muslims. Nor did they teach the things you claim. Usually i would be the first one to jump at Protestants, but in this case, i’m actually standing up for them.
My wife attended a Catholic-run school. She too has never heard of any teachers saying anything bad about Islam. In fact, Islam was never a topic. And the school also had Muslims studying in it. I’m sorry to say this, but you’re really full of it.
On the other hand, i remember mosques in Singapore were handing out pamphlets to Malay-Muslims. It caused quite a stir because the pamphlet discouraged Muslims to befriend Christians. It claims that Christians prayed to a goddess and lived a “haram” lifestyle". I wish i kept the newspaper clipping but that was 20 years ago.
I have personal experience of the british teachers. They are excellent and do not abuse any one. Rather they teach every one faithfully and sincerely.
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inJESUS
Guest
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