Questions About Prayer

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I was talking to a woman yesterday who was raised in the pre-Vatican II era. She mentioned that when she went to Catholic School she was always taught to pray with her palms together, fingers pointed up. Now, most of us pray with fingers intwined and pointed down. Does anyone who grew up in the 40’s/50’s remember why they were instructed to pray with fingers up? Just curious if there was a specific reason why that was the proper way.

Also, when Jesus taught us how to pray the “Our Father”, He didn’t end it with…“in Jesus’ name” or “in Christ’s name” so why do some people feel like it is necessary to say “in Christ’s name” when praying? I think it is because Jesus said no one can get to the Father except through Me, but isn’t He referring to the fact that only through His death on the cross can we be saved? Prior to Jesus’ ministry, people were going to the Father in prayer so I’m just curious about this. I don’t think that saying you can go directly to the Father in prayer is lowering the status of Jesus at all. Jesus is God, but I just don’t think that He meant we can only pray to the Father if we go through Him. Please help me to understand this if I’m wrong.

Peace and blessings,

Jessica
 
Good question! I was always taught to pray palms together, fingers up (i’m 25). Later on, I got into the intertwined fingers, but now I’m back to fingers up, because it helps to remind me of the vertical nature of prayer.
 
I’m 40, and I pray with my fingers intertwined. I was taught to pray that way when I was little and it feels right, like my hands are made to be folded together that way. I never end the Our Father with “in Jesus’ name I pray”, however, I do do that when I pray “free form”, so to speak.
 
I’m quite sure that ending “In Jesus’ Name” at the end of the Oratio Dominicae is a more modern practice, and I wouldn’t be surprised if it were influenced by protestant reformationists. It should be said in its entirity, and then at the end can be added the Minor Doxology (“Glory to the Father, to the Son, and to the Holy Spirit both now and ever…”), which is optional.

I was never taught to pray with my palms together and fingers upwards (as I was never even taught to pray :S), but this is how you see the saints and Church figures being depicted in prayer in Catholic artwork, so my assumption is that it is more traditional to pray this way.
 
When I re-read my post, I think I mis-typed what I was trying to ask…SORRY! My question meant to be,

When Jesus taught us how to pray (through the use of the Our Father), He never said that we had to pray through Him (from what I can find). So, using the Our Father as our general guideline to free-formed prayer, why do we (or some) add “in Jesus’ name” to the end of free-formed prayer? Prior to fully understanding the concept of Jesus as the Messiah, the Israelites (or other God fearing people) would pray directly to God, the Father, without having to “go through” Jesus so to speak. So why do we add that now?

I pray to the Father for certain things, thanking Jesus for His sacrifice and asking for intercession for other things, and then the Holy Spirit for wisdom and guidance and so forth.

Does my question make sense? I’m not sure if I’m conveying it well.
 
JAGCath28 said:
I was talking to a woman yesterday who was raised in the pre-Vatican II era. She mentioned that when she went to Catholic School she was always taught to pray with her palms together, fingers pointed up. Now, most of us pray with fingers intwined and pointed down. Does anyone who grew up in the 40’s/50’s remember why they were instructed to pray with fingers up? Just curious if there was a specific reason why that was the proper way.
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Both hand postures are exceptable.

But, I prefer having my palms together and fingers pointing up to heaven.
All Altar Servers at my parish are required to have this hand posture.
 
JAGCath28 said:
When I re-read my post, I think I mis-typed what I was trying to ask…SORRY! My question meant to be,

When Jesus taught us how to pray (through the use of the Our Father), He never said that we had to pray through Him (from what I can find). So, using the Our Father as our general guideline to free-formed prayer, why do we (or some) add “in Jesus’ name” to the end of free-formed prayer? Prior to fully understanding the concept of Jesus as the Messiah, the Israelites (or other God fearing people) would pray directly to God, the Father, without having to “go through” Jesus so to speak. So why do we add that now?

I pray to the Father for certain things, thanking Jesus for His sacrifice and asking for intercession for other things, and then the Holy Spirit for wisdom and guidance and so forth.

Does my question make sense? I’m not sure if I’m conveying it well.
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Ah, I see what you’re asking.

The Jews prayed directly to God (and still pray directly to Him because they don’t believe in Christ as the Messiah). After the death of Christ, when Christianity became established, people began praying through Christ. You don’t HAVE to pray through Christ, and can pray directly to God, but you should pray through Christ at least once in a while (in my personal opinion).

Now to actually ANSWER your question! 😛 The reason we pray through Christ, and not directly to God whenever we pray, is because Christ is, as taught in the Chatechism, God and Man. Not hybrid, not half and half, but both God and Man, the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit, of One Essence. He is the Trinity itself, and holds God’s infinite wisdome, as well as Man’s finite comprehension.

We pray to Christ the same reason we pray to God and the Saints for intercessions-because God is God, and Saints are Mankind, and Mankind in Heaven acts as a messenger to God when we pray to Man (the Saints). When we pray to Christ, we are praying to God through Him, as well as for him to be as a messenger of God to God through Him as Man.

I’m not sure if I’m making sense, but this is the summary: Christ is God, as he is Man. We pray to Him as we do God because, while he is our Messiah, he is also God incarnate in the body of Man.

In the shortest terms possible: Christ is God.
 
When we pray, may of the little conventional phrases, such as In Christs Name, or other ones, are there for our own benefit. They are simply to remind us of certain facts about the nature of our prayers. Sometimes a specific phrase is used that seems to be particularly suited to the nature of the prayers being prayed.

Ones that specifically mention praying through Christ, or “In Jesus Name” come from the idea that “no one comes to the Father except through me” and the idea that Christ is our mediator, or connection to God.
 
palms together and fingers toward heaven as instructed during preparation for First reconciliation and First Holy Communion…I’ve deviated to folded and intertwined, but have been back to palms together and fingers upward since my daughter went through First Holy Communion 4 years ago.
 
As Bluegoat wrote: “Ones that specifically mention praying through Christ, or “In Jesus Name” come from the idea that “no one comes to the Father except through me” and the idea that Christ is our mediator, or connection to God.”

We mostly start and end with the sign of the cross and say, “In the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit. Amen.” So it’s covered anyway, but it’s all good though and shows we are being attentive.

As for the hands in prayer. I was raised in the 50s and 60s and it was for all us kids with the fingers pointing upwards and palms together. It was simply the traditional way not all adults did it that way though, especially the men. I still think it’s kind of nice to see a guy with the traditional hands attitude but it’s rare nowadays - I saw it in Rome as a guy was lining up for Communion. The priests and servers at the Latin Mass mostly use the traditional gestures.

I do the traditional hands for private prayer. At church, during prayer or lining up for Communion, it’s mostly hand clasped in hand (but sometimes fingers intertwined).
 
ErichK said:
Ah, I see what you’re asking.

The Jews prayed directly to God (and still pray directly to Him because they don’t believe in Christ as the Messiah). After the death of Christ, when Christianity became established, people began praying through Christ. You don’t HAVE to pray through Christ, and can pray directly to God, but you should pray through Christ at least once in a while (in my personal opinion).
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Strictly speaking, I don’t think we can pray to the Father other than through Christ. This includes the Jews, who of course knew nothing about Christ. But Christ, the Word, The Incarnation, is what connects God to creation. If there was no Word, there would be no way to talk to God. There would be no creation either, of course, so it is a moot point from that perspective.

But we ALWAYS pray through Christ - saying it in a prayer reminds us of that fact, it isn’t a choice about who we are going to pray to taday.
 
I attended a Catholic elementary school in the archdiocese of Los Angeles from 1962-1970. Our Cardinal was James McIntyre. John XXIII was Pope. Our teachers were Sisters of Providence.

On day one, 1st grade students began a formal program designed to prepare them for their First Confession (The Sacrament of Penance) and First Holy Communion (The Sacrament of the Eucharist). We were issued Baltimore Catechisms and St. Joseph Missals before we could read the words.

We had daily religion classes where the Sisters taught us the prayers of the Rosary. We practiced those prayers in the classroom until every student could recite every word of every prayer clearly, without error. At any time the principal or pastor could visit a classroom to discuss what the words of those prayers meant to us, and to God. Before the end of the school year, the prayers of the Rosary, acts of Faith, Hope, Charity, Contrition, Grace Before Meals and Thanksgiving After Meals had become part of our daily routine.

“Our Father, Who art in heaven hallowed be Thy name. Thy kingdom come; Thy will be done on earth, as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us. And lead us not into temptation; but deliver us from evil. Amen.”

We went to Mass twice weekly with our class and on Sunday with our parents. The Sisters taught us how young Catholics were expected to conduct themselves in Holy Mass. We were instructed on the proper postures of Catholic worship - including the traditional hand position used by students, altar servers, seminarians, religious orders and clergy worldwide:

“Hands joined at chest level. Palms together. Fingers extended and together. Right thumb over the left in the form of a cross until the Consecration. Left thumb over right after the Consecration.”

These first small lessons were imprinted - with precision - into the hearts and minds of Catholic school students everywhere. In every sense of the word, we were being indoctrinated. A foundation was being laid for what was to come: Commandments, Sacraments, Temptation, Heresy, Salvation, or Not.

Back in the day, “being a Catholic” was not for sissies.
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Also, when Jesus taught us how to pray the “Our Father”, He didn’t end it with…“in Jesus’ name” or “in Christ’s name” so why do some people feel like it is necessary to say “in Christ’s name” when praying?

As a matter of fact, the Copts end the Pater by saying, “Through Christ our Lord.”
 
Bluegoat said:
Strictly speaking, I don’t think we can pray to the Father other than through Christ. This includes the Jews, who of course knew nothing about Christ. But Christ, the Word, The Incarnation, is what connects God to creation. If there was no Word, there would be no way to talk to God. There would be no creation either, of course, so it is a moot point from that perspective.
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From Saturday and Today’s readings in Colossians, I understand WHY we end our prayers with “in Jesus’ name”. Colossians 3: 17 “And whatever you do, in word or in deed,
do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” We are encouraged to out of respect for the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross.

I do not agree with you that the Jews were unable to pray to the Father other than through Christ. How did they pray through Christ if they did not know Him? There are instances in the Old Testament where the Jews prayed directly to God, and God heard their prayer so I don’t understand what you are saying here. I also disagree that when Christ said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” that He was referring to prayer. That’s not what they were talking about. They were talking about when we die. Christ’s death and resurrection opened up Heaven to us. Before this, we were not worthy.

I just have to clarify that I believe in the Trinity and I’m in no way trying to lessen the importance of Christ. It was just a question that I had that I wanted to post and get some feedback. So please don’t misunderstand my intentions.
 
Bluegoat said:
But we ALWAYS pray through Christ - saying it in a prayer reminds us of that fact, it isn’t a choice about who we are going to pray to taday.
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I’m not sure what you are insinuating here. In my little understanding of things, I view the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit as having various roles in my life. When I pray (freeform), I typically direct my prayers to God, the Father. Mostly because that is how Jesus taught us to pray. While asking for forgiveness or any other petitions, I thank Him for the gift of His Son’s death and resurrection so that I may be made worthy of His grace and ask these through Christ. When looking for Wisdom, I always pray that the Holy Spirit will grant it to me. It isn’t russian roulet on who I’m going to pray to…I pray to God in all forms (Father, Son, and Holy Spirit).
 
JAGCath28 said:
From Saturday and Today’s readings in Colossians, I understand WHY we end our prayers with “in Jesus’ name”. Colossians 3: 17 “And whatever you do, in word or in deed,
do everything in the name of the Lord Jesus, giving thanks to God the Father through him.” We are encouraged to out of respect for the sacrifice that Christ made on the cross.

I do not agree with you that the Jews were unable to pray to the Father other than through Christ. How did they pray through Christ if they did not know Him? There are instances in the Old Testament where the Jews prayed directly to God, and God heard their prayer so I don’t understand what you are saying here. I also disagree that when Christ said, “I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through Me.” that He was referring to prayer. That’s not what they were talking about. They were talking about when we die. Christ’s death and resurrection opened up Heaven to us. Before this, we were not worthy.

I just have to clarify that I believe in the Trinity and I’m in no way trying to lessen the importance of Christ. It was just a question that I had that I wanted to post and get some feedback. So please don’t misunderstand my intentions.
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This and your subsequent post are really asking the same question. I’ll try and see if I can answer it.

Perhaps I will start with a comparison. You probably know that the Catholic Church does not believe that all non-Christians are doomed to Hell. Some may well be saved and go to Heaven. But they do say that even non-Christians who are saved are saved through the Church, and through Christ. This is true even if those people have never heard of Christianity, or God, or even god.

The Trinity is in some ways similar. The way it “works” does not depend on our knowledge of it. God acts and is according to his own nature. So if prayers to God go through the Word, it does not matter if the Jews knew that or to whom they addressed their prayers. Just as if it doesn’t matter if you know about the satellite your phone call to Africa is going through, to use a mechanical example.

So what exactly does it mean that prayers go through Christ? I’ll use an illustration from Augustine.

According to Augustine, the pagan philosophers knowledge of god was of a perfect and infinate god, while they were imperfect and finite. It was as if they could see in the distance the City of God, they knew that somehow it had produced all of the universe. But it was an infinate, uncrossable distance away. The god the ancients were talking about was what we understand as God the Father.

Intellectually, they knew there must be a connection between this infinate perfect God and themselves, otherwise how could they exist?

The answer, says Augustine, is the Word, through whom all things were made. The Word is part of God they they did not know existed, but it is the Word, which actually took on the nature of creation as part of itself, that is a bridge for the pilgrim to travel to the City of God.

The bridge is the only way to get there, and the prayers of the Jews went that way too, even if they didn’t know it, as do ours.

THe beginning of the Gospel of John is another way to approach the question. It is through the Word that everything that was made is made. The Word is the divine logos that runs through all things, like spiritual DNA, and makes them what they are. At each moment we are sustained by it. Thus it is through the Word that we have an existence in and connection with the Divine life.

I hope this is helpful - it is rather a complex topic. Just remember that it is not only out of respect for Jesus that we do everything in his name. It is because it reflects the structure of reality. Saying Christ’s sacrifice opened up Heaven to us is another reflection of the same thing. The Incarnation is part of the structure of reality and is perfectly reflective of God’s nature.
 
I was taught:

Palms together, right thumb over left. The brother teaching us corrected me, because I’m left-handed.

I have a notion that this posture mimics the church steeple, directing the energy of the prayer from one’s heart, to Heaven. Just my idea.
 
I think somewhere in the Bible Jesus said to ask in his name, or something to that effect. I will look in the morning for the exact verse.

And my son is a 1st grader in Catholic school and they teach to pray with palms together, fingers up at his school.

I end Our Father with: “For Thine is the kingdom, power, and glory forever, amen.” But I was brought up Protestant. We also call it The Lord’s Prayer.
 
I have another question about prayer that came to my mind last night. Adam and Eve prior to the fall would walk with God basically in the nude. So, is it a sign of disrespect to be praying to God when in the shower or other types of activities like that? I feel like I’m constantly praying, whether driving, walking, sitting on the couch, and sometimes in the shower or bath. IAm I showing a sign of disrespect by not being more formal? I do spend time in more reverent prayer such as before or after Mass, Confession, and in Adoration Chapels, but I do a lot of informal “talking” to God.

I appreciate your thoughts.

Blessings,

Jessica
 
JAGCath28 said:
I have another question about prayer that came to my mind last night. Adam and Eve prior to the fall would walk with God basically in the nude. So, is it a sign of disrespect to be praying to God when in the shower or other types of activities like that? I feel like I’m constantly praying, whether driving, walking, sitting on the couch, and sometimes in the shower or bath. IAm I showing a sign of disrespect by not being more formal? I do spend time in more reverent prayer such as before or after Mass, Confession, and in Adoration Chapels, but I do a lot of informal “talking” to God.

I appreciate your thoughts.

Blessings,

Jessica
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God knows you are nude under your clothes even when you are in church.
 
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