Questions about the Catholic Faith from a Protestant

[Chris_in_Mich]

The canon of the bible itself is Tradition.

This link may be of help
www.catholic.com/library/Scripture_and_Tradition.asp

 

[mattrue]

if you want to know more about the Catholic faith there are some terrific sources. as Catholics there are times when we have to say “we believe in the whole faith” but sometimes dont understand it all but its so important to believe it because the church is the Bride of Christ.

#1- Fr.Larry Richards - go to fr.larry.com and click on his homily’s. read a few of them, they are life changing.

#2 - Fr. Corapi - listen to Fr. Corapi on relevantradio.com everyweekday at 10pm central.

#3 - Archbishop Fulton J. Sheen - a Dr. of the Church his talks are amazing. Check em out if you have time.

- EWTN and Relevant Radio - Great sources for info on the faith. Dr Ray on relevant radio is terrific.​

 

[LSK]

jpete79:

BTW - you became Christian at the moment of your Catholic baptism, whether you realize it now or not.

I don’t agree with that statement. Believing in Christ and walking in His ways must be a conscious decision. A Christian is a follower of Christ and a baby cannot consciously make that decision.

By your definition of becoming Christian at Baptism, that means we don’t have to believe that Christ did anything (lived or died or was raised for us) and we can live life however we would like and still receive Salvation.

The Sacrament of Baptism in the Catholic Church is based on the Holy Scripture - both the Old Testament and the New Testament. You must also know that in the OLD Testament, God asked that Jews become circumcised as a sign of the covenant between Him and His people. The men did so, under Moses, and the male infants were circumcized at 8 days at the behest of their parents to symbolize their agreement to this covenant, even though they could not, on their own, agree to it. Catholic Christians make this same decision for their own children, in order to free them from the stain of Original Sin. Your parents, being good Catholic Christians, made this decision for you, thereby making sure you were saved through the Sacrament of Baptism from the Original Sin you inherited from Adam and Eve. As Jesus stated, He did not change the Law, He fullfilled it. We believe that the Old Testament is fullfilled in the New and the New is revealed in the Old. And because, in the New Testament, it specifically states NOT to rely only upon Holy Scripture but to also rely upon Sacred Tradition, Catholic Christians do so.

While you were confirmed in the Catholic Faith too young, and your parents erred by allowing you to do so before you were properly instructed and allowed to know the fullness and richness of your faith, you were saved through Baptism.

Scriptural References for Infant Baptism can be found in the following passages:

Jn 3:5, Mk 16:16
1 Cor 15:21 - 22
Mk 10:14
Lk 18:15
Col 2:11-12
Jos 24:15
Mt 8:5
Acts: 16:31
Acts:16:15
Acts 16:33
Whenever the Holy Scripture speaks of ‘households’ the Church interprets that as meaning entire households, including children and infants.

Welcome, brother! I hope you learn more and more of the Faith of your Fathers so that you may return to the Fullness of the Banquet that is the Holy Mother Church!

 

[Tonks40]

Orionthehunter:

There is that word again. I wish he address this basic question I asked earlier. What is sad is that jpete has no idea of which he speaks and thus wanders in misunderstanding.

Like the old saying - the truth is hard to take sometimes (paraphrase).

 

[jpete79]

Orionthehunter:

There is that word again. I wish he address this basic question I asked earlier. What is sad is that jpete has no idea of which he speaks and thus wanders in misunderstanding.

P.S. If you admit Chick is hateful, why would you think there is anything credible on his website?

I used the Chick site because that’s the source for a book I’ve read before.

What is sad is that I am wandering? I admit that I fall of the path of righteousness but I always let Christ bring me back.

Where do my beliefs lie?

I believe that as a man, I was born into a world of sin and therefore was destined for eternity in Hell (from Romans). Because of my sinful nature, I should be forever seperated from God the Father. However, God made a substitution by allowing Jesus Christ to come down, suffer and die for my sins. God’s wrath which was meant for me was instead brought forth on His own son. Christ, however; being perfect resurrected from the dead (John) and ascended to the right hand of the Father (Acts)and continues to reside there interceding on my behalf to God (Hebrews). It is also Christ who is the only way…I say that again THE ONLY WAY to God (Matthew), He came down so that whoever believed in Him (again John) shall not perish but have eternal life. If you want to know what believe means in this context please ask the Apostle John and not me as he wrote the Gospel. I believe that God’s Word has been communicated to us through Scripture and that His Word is authoritative, infallible, and perfect (Psalms, Paul’s Letters, etc). Everything outside of the Bible is tradition and man-made and we should steer clear of it (Revelation, Paul’s Letters). I believe in Baptism as a proclamation of Faith for a BELIEVER (one has to be of age to believe, not an infant) but not as a necessity for Salvation (Christ again is the only way) (Gospels and Acts). I believe in the Holy Spirit as a gift, acting on behalf of God for my sanctification so that I can better myself and build a closer relationship with God (Gospel, Acts, Paul’s Letters) and I believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ and the bodily resurrection of the dead, who will be judged according to their deeds (Revelation). There is plenty more but this is already getting long. I know who my Savior is, I know where my hope lies, I know where my eternity will be and that is with JESUS, GOD AND IN HEAVEN

What do I believe in short…THE WORDS OF CHRIST EXPRESSED IN THE GOSPEL AND THE WORD OF GOD EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE.

 

[LSK]

“Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men…” Mark 7:7-8

“Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ.” Colossians 2:8

“For this cause also thank we God without ceasing, because, when ye received the word of God which ye heard of us, ye received it not as the word of men, but as it is in truth, the word of God…” 1 Thessalonians 2:13

1 Cor 11:2 - hold fast to traditions I handed on to you.
2 Thess 2:15 hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter
2 Thess 3:6 shun those acting not according to tradition
Jn 21:25 not everything Jesus said recorded in Scripture
Mk 13:31 - heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word will not
2 Tim 2:2 - what you HEARD entrust to faithful MEN
2 Peter 1:20 - no prophecy is a matter of private interpretation
2 Peter 3:15-16 Paul’s letter’s can be difficult to grasp and interpret
1 Rom 10:17 faith comes from what is heard

Remember, my brother in Christ, the Catholic Church is what gathered all the Holy Scripture writings into the book, the Bible, and gave it to the world. Also, always remember, Catholic Christians, the FIRST Christians, are not merely children of the Book, We are Children of the WORD…the Word INCARNATE…Jesus Christ!

 

[Orionthehunter]

jpete79:

I used the Chick site because that’s the source for a book I’ve read before.

What is sad is that I am wandering? I admit that I fall of the path of righteousness but I always let Christ bring me back.

Where do my beliefs lie?

I believe that as a man, I was born into a world of sin and therefore was destined for eternity in Hell (from Romans). Because of my sinful nature, I should be forever seperated from God the Father. However, God made a substitution by allowing Jesus Christ to come down, suffer and die for my sins. God’s wrath which was meant for me was instead brought forth on His own son. Christ, however; being perfect resurrected from the dead (John) and ascended to the right hand of the Father (Acts)and continues to reside there interceding on my behalf to God (Hebrews). It is also Christ who is the only way…I say that again THE ONLY WAY to God (Matthew), He came down so that whoever believed in Him (again John) shall not perish but have eternal life. If you want to know what believe means in this context please ask the Apostle John and not me as he wrote the Gospel. I believe that God’s Word has been communicated to us through Scripture and that His Word is authoritative, infallible, and perfect (Psalms, Paul’s Letters, etc). Everything outside of the Bible is tradition and man-made and we should steer clear of it (Revelation, Paul’s Letters). I believe in Baptism as a proclamation of Faith for a BELIEVER (one has to be of age to believe, not an infant) but not as a necessity for Salvation (Christ again is the only way) (Gospels and Acts). I believe in the Holy Spirit as a gift, acting on behalf of God for my sanctification so that I can better myself and build a closer relationship with God (Gospel, Acts, Paul’s Letters) and I believe in the 1000 year reign of Christ and the bodily resurrection of the dead, who will be judged according to their deeds (Revelation). There is plenty more but this is already getting long. I know who my Savior is, I know where my hope lies, I know where my eternity will be and that is with JESUS, GOD AND IN HEAVEN

What do I believe in short…THE WORDS OF CHRIST EXPRESSED IN THE GOSPEL AND THE WORD OF GOD EXPRESSED IN THE BIBLE.

What does it mean to say you “believe”? I’m not asking for a list of things that you put after the word believe.

P.S. Do you realize that the Apostles were saying Mass and that the heirarchy of the Church existed prior to the Bible? Did you know that several of the Books of the Bible were written after Revelation?

 

[jpete79]

LSK:

The Sacrament of Baptism in the Catholic Church is based on the Holy Scripture - both the Old Testament and the New Testament. You must also know that in the OLD Testament, God asked that Jews become circumcised as a sign of the covenant between Him and His people. The men did so, under Moses, and the male infants were circumcized at 8 days at the behest of their parents to symbolize their agreement to this covenant, even though they could not, on their own, agree to it. Catholic Christians make this same decision for their own children, in order to free them from the stain of Original Sin. Your parents, being good Catholic Christians, made this decision for you, thereby making sure you were saved through the Sacrament of Baptism from the Original Sin you inherited from Adam and Eve. As Jesus stated, He did not change the Law, He fullfilled it. We believe that the Old Testament is fullfilled in the New and the New is revealed in the Old. And because, in the New Testament, it specifically states NOT to rely only upon Holy Scripture but to also rely upon Sacred Tradition, Catholic Christians do so.

While you were confirmed in the Catholic Faith too young, and your parents erred by allowing you to do so before you were properly instructed and allowed to know the fullness and richness of your faith, you were saved through Baptism.

Scriptural References for Infant Baptism can be found in the following passages:

Jn 3:5, Mk 16:16
1 Cor 15:21 - 22
Mk 10:14
Lk 18:15
Col 2:11-12
Jos 24:15
Mt 8:5
Acts: 16:31
Acts:16:15
Acts 16:33
Whenever the Holy Scripture speaks of ‘households’ the Church interprets that as meaning entire households, including children and infants.

Welcome, brother! I hope you learn more and more of the Faith of your Fathers so that you may return to the Fullness of the Banquet that is the Holy Mother Church!

John 3:5 Never talks about infants…in fact he uses the word MAN.
5Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God.

Mark 16:16, an infant cannot believe
16He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

I Corinthians does not mention Baptism but how we come to God.

Mark 10 does NOT mention that the children were baptized…the Greek word for Baptism which is used quite often (baptizo) is not in this verse anywhere
14But when Jesus saw it, he was much displeased, and said unto them, Suffer the little children to come unto me, and forbid them not: for of such is the kingdom of God.
Again in Luke the word baptism is never mentioned.

Colossians never mentions infants,

Acts also mentions that the people believed meaning they were not infants.
31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house.

32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.

33And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was baptized, he and all his, straightway.

The idea of infant baptism is NOT Biblical and was created by mandate of the Catholic Church.

 

[jpete79]

Orionthehunter:

What does it mean to say you “believe”? I’m not asking for a list of things that you put after the word believe.

P.S. Do you realize that the Apostles were saying Mass and that the heirarchy of the Church existed prior to the Bible? Did you know that several of the Books of the Bible were written after Revelation?

What does it mean to say believe in Christ, it means put your faith, trust, love and body to Him. Devote myself to Him.

Name which Books and the dates please.

 

[Orionthehunter]

jpete: This was found right here on Catholic.com. catholic.com/library/Early_Teachings_of_Infant_Baptism.asp So much for not being Biblical.

Although many Protestant traditions baptize babies, Baptists—and “Bible churches” in the Baptist tradition—insist that baptism is only for those who have come to faith. Nowhere in the New Testament, they point out, do we read of infants being baptized.

On the other hand, nowhere do we read of children raised in believing households reaching the age of reason and then being baptized. The only explicit baptism accounts in the Bible involve converts from Judaism or paganism. For children of believers there is no explicit mention of baptism—either in infancy or later.

This poses a problem for Baptists and Bible Christians: On what basis do they require children of believers to be baptized at all? Given the silence of the New Testament, why not assume Christian baptism is only for adult converts?

This, of course, would be contrary to historical Christian practice. But so is rejecting infant baptism. As we will see, there is no doubt that the early Church practiced infant baptism; and no Christian objections to this practice were ever voiced until the Reformation.

The New Testament itself, while it does not explicitly say when (or whether) believers should have their children baptized, is not silent on the subject.

Luke 18:15–16 tells us that “they were bringing even infants” to Jesus; and he himself related this to the kingdom of God: “Let the children come to me
. . . for to such belongs the kingdom of God.”

When Baptists speak of “bringing someone to Jesus,” they mean leading him to faith. But Jesus says “even infants” can be “brought” to him. Even Baptists don’t claim their practice of “dedicating” babies does this. The fact is, the Bible gives us no way of bringing anyone to Jesus apart from baptism.

Thus Peter declared, “Repent, and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins; and you shall receive the gift of the Holy Spirit. For the promise is to you and to your children” (Acts 2:38–39).

The apostolic Church baptized whole “households” (Acts 16:33; 1 Cor. 1:16), a term encompassing children and infants as well as servants. While these texts do not specifically mention—nor exclude—infants, the very use of the term “households” indicates an understanding of the family as a unit. Even one believing parent in a household makes the children and even the unbelieving spouse “holy” (1 Cor. 7:14).

Does this mean unbelieving spouses should be baptized? Of course not. The kingdom of God is not theirs; they cannot be “brought to Christ” in their unbelief. But infants have no such impediment. The kingdom is theirs, Jesus says, and they should be brought to him; and this means baptism.

Baptism is the Christian equivalent of circumcision, or “the circumcision of Christ”: “In him you were also circumcised with . . . the circumcision of Christ, having been buried with him in baptism and raised with him through your faith in the power of God, who raised him from the dead” (Col. 2:11–12). Thus, like circumcision, baptism can be given to children as well as adults. The difference is that circumcision was powerless to save (Gal. 5:6, 6:15), but “**aptism . . . now saves you” (1 Pet. 3:21).

The first explicit evidence of children of believing households being baptized comes from the early Church—where infant baptism was uniformly
upheld and regarded as apostolic. In fact, the only reported controversy on the subject was a third-century debate whether or not to delay baptism until the eighth day after birth, like its Old Testament equivalent, circumcision! (See quotation from Cyprian, below; compare Leviticus 12:2–3.) **

Oh, the perils of being your own magisterium. It is easy to find reputable rebuttal to such simple arguments.

 

[jpete79]

1 Cor 11:2 - hold fast to traditions I handed on to you.
2 Thess 2:15 hold fast to traditions, whether oral or by letter
2 Thess 3:6 shun those acting not according to tradition
Jn 21:25 not everything Jesus said recorded in Scripture
Mk 13:31 - heaven and earth shall pass away, but my word will not
2 Tim 2:2 - what you HEARD entrust to faithful MEN
2 Peter 1:20 - no prophecy is a matter of private interpretation
2 Peter 3:15-16 Paul’s letter’s can be difficult to grasp and interpret
1 Rom 10:17 faith comes from what is heard

Remember, my brother in Christ, the Catholic Church is what gathered all the Holy Scripture writings into the book, the Bible, and gave it to the world. Also, always remember, Catholic Christians, the FIRST Christians, are not merely children of the Book, We are Children of the WORD…the Word INCARNATE…Jesus Christ!

Hold fast to traditions that were handed to you…I still don’t see where the traditions were handed down from Biblical times (I agree with Baptism but not infant…I agree that sins need to be confessed but not to a Priest, etc).

If no prophesy is for private interpretation than how can you say that you should follow Catholic Canon without looking at it for yourself (look at the Bible not the traditions and choose for yourself if it is Biblical).

I feel as if this is a dead horse issue and I have to head off now anyways, so have a great night everyone and God Bless you all.

 

[Orionthehunter]

jpete79:

What does it mean to say believe in Christ, it means put your faith, trust, love and body to Him. Devote myself to Him.

Name which Books and the dates please.

To believe, one must “understand and stand.” First, you must understand what you believe. To understand it, you have to study it in context. Your continual pulling quotes without regard to context shows a blatant lack of intellectual rigor. Then, after you understand, you have to be willing to stand up for it. But without both, you have no belief in the theological sense.

To what are you referring in the bolded part above? Do you want me to show you proof that the Apostles said Mass prior to the writing of the Bible? If my citation is something other than the Bible will you believe it? Do you believe that Pompei existed? It isn’t in the Bible either. Or am only able to cite the Bible for historical evidence?

Regarding the heirachy of the Church, if I show you proof that Jesus selected Peter as the greatest of equals and that the Apostles continued to accept Peter and his successors primacy after Jesus returned to Heaven, will you accept it?

Regarding

 

[YADA]

Jpete79,

The New Testament Scriptures are a gift of the Church to the world. They are “inspired” by the Holy Spirit, they are the Word of God, however, they are also written, copied, preserved and transmitted by the Church. As many have already posted, it is the historical existence of the Church that gives testimony to Christianity. You, JPete79 would have a bible today to study and reflect upon were it not for the Catholic Church. The New Testament is a TRADITION of people. It represents the faith and beliefs of the Church. Scripture, especially the New Testament, comes forth from a believing community for a believeing community.

Infant baptisms are reflected in the jewish practice of circumcism, which was performed on adults and infants (baby boys at the age of 8 days). This marked the people of God and brought them into the Covenant. Did those infant boys choose? Infants are baptized upon the faith of the parents and their promise to raise the child in the Christian faith. Where scripture identifies whole households being baptized they are baptized upon the faith of the head of the household. It is fair to say that those households not only included infants ad children to young to make the choice but also servants and slaves that were compelled to accept the baptism. This is also paralleled in the old testament where Abraham is instructed to circumcise his entire household including slaves.

Just a cautionary thought for you to meditate upon. Scripture covers much territory and, as the above postings can testify to, a variety of thoughts, some of which give opposing or conflicting ideas. If we are not to rely upon* “traditions men”* but we are to “hold fast to the traditions that have been passed on” to us, someone has to be the arbitor.

The prolific abundance of churches and teachings, all professing to be The Christian Faith does not give confidence in our individual ability to discern, even with the Holy Spirit. We cannot all be our own Pope, so to speak.

Yet we are to study, read, absorbed and pray with the scripures because as St. Jerome said, *“Ignorance of Scripture is ignorance of Christ” *Personnally, I do not want to be ignorant of Christ, my Lord and Savior! I like to thisnk of Scripture as God’s love letters to us!

I also note that Paul did not write to the Corinthian Church or the Galatian Church. No, he wrote to the Church at Corinth and the Church at Galatia. Jesus prayed for unity in his followers and sweat blood, His Blood, Holy Blood, for that unity.

And as for the Eucharist being only symbolic, you cannot eat and drink death upon yourself when partaking of a *symbol, *which is what we are told, in Scripture, happens if we approach the Eucharist unworthily. I emphasise the Scripture part as you submit yourself to the Word.
Pax

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

jPete, I have some links that might clear up more of your questions. They are to the web sites of people who are sort of the opposite of you: They were Protestants who found their home in the Catholic Church:

http://www.scotthahn.com/
http://www.jimmyakin.org/
marysmantle.org
http://www.chnetwork.org/
http://www.trueknights.org/

And these two sites should really give you clear understanding direct from the horse’s mouth, so to speak:
http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/
http://www.usccb.org/nab/bible/

As far as your comment on non-Catholics not being allowed to “the breaking of the bread” in the Catholic Church during Mass, as someone who made his First Communion, you know that Catholics do not believe the bread is just broken bread, but the Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus. Jesus says so in Scripture (Matt. 26:26-28; Mark 14:22-24; Luke 22:19-20, off the top of my head).

While the Church recognizes your Christianity, if you don’t believe that’s Jesus, in charity, for the sake of your own soul, the Church cannot let you eat and drink a condemnation onto yourself by receiving the Eucharist. It just wouldn’t be good for you! You might want to check out 1 Cornithians 11: 23-32.

The links are there to help you, if you want answers to your questions. I’m not the best at apologetics or Bible debate, so I’ll leave that to people who are much better at it than I am.

 

[mosher]

jpete79:

I’ll agree that this has an anti-Catholic ring to it and I didn’t want to come back accusatory and apologize if I did.

As far as beliefs on Churches, like I said before; the true Church of Christ are the believers of Him. Whether Catholic or Baptist or Reformed, etc. Belief being something that is whole-hearted and true and proven through the life-styles and actions of a person and that is what is a prerequisite for Salvation, BELIEVING Christ. Living for Him and being a modern-day apostle.

We are told in Hebrews that there is but ONE mediator between us and God and that is Jesus Christ, we are also told that he is a living High-Priest, last we are told that He sits at the right hand of the Father to intercede for us (meaning that it is He who brings our sins to God for forgiveness not a Priest here).

We are told to love God and to follow Him in the Gospels. Scripture tells us to analyze anything that is said with SCRIPTURE.
Again in the Bible I don’t see infant Baptism but older people who knowingly choose that they want in on God’s family. When someone asked Simon (the first Pope) if they could purchase the Holy Spirit, Simon turned them away and said repent your sins to God for forgiveness; he did NOT take it upon himself to absolve the sins of that person. 1 John talks about how confession is made and Christ absolves us of sin…

I didn’t get into transubstantiation before but to think that we are actually eating and drinking the Saviors body and blood is grotesque and against the Law in which God gave Moses.

Whether you have ties that go directly to Paul is meaningless to me as I don’t need 2000 years of man’s traditions to know Christ. All I have I need in Scripture and Word. I am told that I have been redeemed by BELIEVING IN GOD and knowing the true only way to Him is through Christ Jesus. I don’t need 2000 years of a Church saying that I don’t have access to God as the Bible says.

Christ was against tradition not for it…

I am actually going to drop out of this discussion now, as I came here for answers and to seek out truth more indepthly…not to argue and debate points harshly which is what has happened and for that I apologize.

However, it is said in the Bible that Scripture is truth and there are stern warnings about tradition and about adding to the truth. I feel that many traditions in the Catholic Church are unfounded by Scripture and are adding rules which is something I don’t agree with.

Christ was against the traditions of men but he also proscribed that those of Isreal follow all the teachings of the Pharasees.

A point that stood out to me is the simple point about the “Church of Believers” and this I have heard many times but it is intellectually dishonest because of one single reality. If the Church is the pillar and bulwark of truth then why do not all those who believe in (or on if you prefer) Christ agree on doctrine?

 

[revejj2000]

jpete79:

BTW - you became Christian at the moment of your Catholic baptism, whether you realize it now or not.

I don’t agree with that statement. Believing in Christ and walking in His ways must be a conscious decision. A Christian is a follower of Christ and a baby cannot consciously make that decision.

By your definition of becoming Christian at Baptism, that means we don’t have to believe that Christ did anything (lived or died or was raised for us) and we can live life however we would like and still receive Salvation.

Hello and May the Peace of Christ be with You.

You are correct that a baby cannot consciously make the decision to follow Christ. It is by the faith of the parents that they ask to have their baby baptized. The parents take the responsibility to raise the child in the Catholic Faith. They are the first teachers of the Faith to the child. As the child matures in the Faith, the child then make his or her commitment by embracing the Sacrament of Confirmation. This means that the gifts of the Holy Spirit received at baptism have been developing in the child by the parent’s teaching of the Faith along with the Parish, relatives and friends of the child. The child, when being sealed by the Holy Spirit in Confirmation. (Notice that the child does not receive the Holy Spirit, for this was done at Baptism, but is now sealed by the Holy Spirit. The child has confirmed himself or herself to now consciously make the decision to follow Christ.

To the part about believing in Jesus Christ and that is all that is needed to have salvation, there is a concern. We are told in Scripture that we can loose our faith, salvation in Christ through sin. The Parable of the Talents, the Wise and Foolish Virgins, just to mention a few). Chapter 25 of The Gospel of Saint Matthew tells us that the lost did not, in Faith, feed the hungry, give drink to the thirsty, etc. Even though Jesus died for our sins, we have to make effort to not continue to sin. Sin is telling God that we do not love him or our neighbor, we only care for ourselves. The saved sheep are saved because they, in Faith, did what Jesus has asked them to do, to love God and their neighbor. Some did not even consciously know that they were following Christ.

I pray this helps. Again, the advise to read the Catechism of the Catholic Church is a good start to understand what Catholics believe. Also some books on converts to the Catholic Faith tell how they have struggled with some of the same questions you have.

Again, the Peace of Christ be with You.

Fr. Bro.

 

[Jlcastagna]

jpete79,

In Matthew 18:17 it states: take it to the Church (not take it to the Bible) if we are all just one big body of Christ as you imply, which church should we take it to seeing as there are well over 30,000 Christian faiths out there. Well the First was the Catholic Church, founded in the upper room on holy thursday, which the gates of hell will not prevail against, thats the one I would take it to. Some how I know at this time you will disagree with me at this point in time but, I’ll pray for you to continue to search for the truth. In hopes that the holy Spirit will lead you to the fullness of truth and faith that He desires for all of us.

To all others :clapping: , you’ve done an outstanding job defending your faith and attempting to guide jpete79 ever closer. Lets pray that the seeds we’ve planted will be watered by the Holy Spirit and bring a bountiful harvest.

May God bless and protect us,
JLC

 

[Orionthehunter]

OutinChgoburbs:

While the Church recognizes your Christianity, if you don’t believe that’s Jesus, in charity, for the sake of your own soul, the Church cannot let you eat and drink a condemnation onto yourself by receiving the Eucharist. It just wouldn’t be good for you! You might want to check out 1 Cornithians 11: 23-32.

QUOTE]
FYI: This is the quote from 1 Corinthians sited above:

For I received from the Lord what I also handed on to you, that the Lord Jesus, on the night he was handed over, took bread, and, after he had given thanks, broke it and said, “This is my body that is for you. Do this in remembrance of me.” In the same way also the cup, after supper, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood. Do this, as often as you drink it, in remembrance of me.” For as often as you eat this bread and drink the cup, you proclaim the death of the Lord until he comes. Therefore whoever eats the bread or drinks the cup of the Lord unworthily will have to answer for the body and blood of the Lord. A person should examine himself, and so eat the bread and drink the cup. For anyone who eats and drinks without discerning the body, eats and drinks judgment on himself. That is why many among you are ill and infirm, and a considerable number are dying.
If we discerned ourselves, we would not be under judgment;
but since we are judged by (the) Lord, we are being disciplined so that we may not be condemned along with the world.

If this were just a symbol, I don’t think Paul would have said that to partake of it unworthily or acknowledging it is the body and blood of Christ would be condemned to Hell. It is for this reason, despite your protestation that it is “absurd”, that the Church charged with saving souls (all souls) would prohibit you partaking.

By the way, it isn’t just non-Catholics for whom this applies. If a confirmed practicing Catholic is in a state of mortal sin, they are also prohibited from taking the Eucharist.

 

[jpete79]

I have been told many things by many people. I have been told that binding and loosing means that Priests are able to absolve sins because that was a commandment given to Peter.

Yet, in Matthew 18; Christ is not only talking to Peter but to the rest of his disciples as well. In this context he is also talking about when a person sins directly against US as people. Also, Christ is making Peter the next step for the foundation of the Church, however; he is speaking to ALL the disciples when he says they have the power to bind and loose…he’s talking about freedom from sin through Salvation and the truth within them not about the absolvation of sins as only God can do that.

What I do find amusing though is everyone’s little glibs…

arms are too short to box with God
and
Protons have mass

 

[LSK]

jpete79:

Hold fast to traditions that were handed to you…I still don’t see where the traditions were handed down from Biblical times (I agree with Baptism but not infant…I agree that sins need to be confessed but not to a Priest, etc).

If no prophesy is for private interpretation than how can you say that you should follow Catholic Canon without looking at it for yourself (look at the Bible not the traditions and choose for yourself if it is Biblical).

I feel as if this is a dead horse issue and I have to head off now anyways, so have a great night everyone and God Bless you all.

Traditions such as having hands laid upon you, being Baptized in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, Being Annointed when you are sick, being Married in the Church, being Ordained a Priest…those are Traditions that have been handed down from the first century of Christianity. Biblical Times - that is, the times of history that begin when a Bible was created did not actually start until around the year 313 or so…and this was being done long before then. For instance, the Eucharist was being celebrated long before there was a Bible by the first Christians. In fact we Catholics were being tortured and called cannibals by the Romans for celebrating the Eucharist long before there was a Bible.

In Holy Scripture we are told to confess our sins to one another, and Jesus tells His Apostles that whatever THEY bind on earth is bound in heaven…we Catholic Christians interpret that as meaning that
a) confession to a priest is necessary because we are members of the Body of Christ. When we confess to a priest and he forgives us, he represents the members of the body of Christ and he forgives us a a representative of that membership.
b) as an ordained priest, he is in the line of Apostolic succession as set up by JESUS HIMSELF in HIS CHURCH. What he binds on earth, therefore, in bound in heaven.

Being taught the Catechism is looking at the Canon and being taught the Truth. Once we are saved through Baptism, we are taught the Truth. If we, through our own will, reject the Truth we can fall into sin. Remember, in Mt 7:21 - not everyone saying "Lord, Lord will inherit and in Mt 24:13 only those who persevere to the end will be saved. St. Paul wrote in Rom 11:22 that we must remain in his kindness or you will be cut off. And in 1 Cor 10:11- 12 he further cautioned that those thinking they are secure, may fall.

The Truth in NEVER a dead horse issue, my brother in Christ. Keep searching and asking questions … Jesus brought you to this forum for a reason. He wants you HOME…