Questions about the charismatic renewal...

[puzzleannie]

And that is where it should stay!. In protestant churches. It is not Catholic or Orthodox at all!.

yes it is
there is Catholic charismatic renewal fully in conformity with and approved by the Magesterium which has been active for over 40 years.
just because you are not familiar with any spirituality does not mean it is not approved or not orthodox

speaking in tongues is not gibberish, and you cannot make that claim unless you are prepared to call St. Paul a liar.

It is both a praise and prayer language, and a means of communicating the will of the Holy Spirit for a particular church, when interpreted and discerned according to the mind of the entire church.

If I walk into Mass being celebrated – or a prayer group or bible study or class --in Spanish, Tagalog, Vietnamese, or Hungarian, and don’t understand a word, does it follow, because of my own ignorance (or even arrogance) that what I hear is gibberish and what is going on is unorthodox.

Are you familiar with the spiritual lives of each and every one of the hundreds of saints canonized in the last 100 years (including any that have died and been canonized since the Charismatic renewal began in the 1960s) that you can say beyond shadow of a doubt they exhibited none of the charisms described by Paul, including the least of them, tongues?

 

[grannymh]

thirddec,

I think your post is excellent - well-reasoned and charitable as well.

P.S. - I am still waiting for someone to tell me why speaking in gibberish accomplishes anything . . . If the Holy Spirit wants to communicate something to someone, why make the speaker use sounds that no one, including the speaker, can understand?

Is this so obvious that I am missing something here???

What you may be missing is the purpose, use, and expression of any language such as English or French or Spanish etc.

There are two extremely different types of tongues: 1. praying in tongues which is a common gift of the Holy Spirit. 2. speaking in tongues which can be considered a ministry of the Holy Spirit.

The sound of both types of tongues may sound like gibberish just as any foreign language would sound to our ears. Does one dismiss Spanish as gibberish? Do Spanish people pray to God in gibberish? Is there ever an interpreter who interprets the gibberish of Spanish? Does it take humility to learn to speak French in gibberish? Does one realize that a French person knows the best way to communicate in French gibberish? How can French be used to share the good news of the Gospel with others who speak Spanish?

In 2010, I did a series of posts answering questions about tongues. These would be found in my Public Profile, Statistics tab, Find all posts by grannymh. These may be helpful to you. Hopefully, the CAF members, who are familiar with the technical mechanics of tongues will be here to answer questions.

Once you realize that the answers to the questions about Spanish and French refer to the two important gifts of the Holy Spirit, you should have the answers to some of your own questions about something called gibberish. I see that a number of posters are already responding to you.

Blessings,
granny

THE HOLY EUCHARIST
IS THE LIGHT, STRENGTH, AND LIFE OF OUR SOULS.

 

[Salvatore123]

I did not think I had to explain what I meant by “gibberish”.

Speaking a language that one is not familiar with, but is nevertheless a language, is NOT gibberish, and I never said it was.

I defined “gibberish” as some unintelligible utterance that NO ONE UNDERSTANDS, INCLUDING THE SPEAKER.

Now, with what I thought was so obvious out of the way, can someone please explain to me the purpose behind the Holy Spirit supposedly causing someone to utter sounds from which NO ONE can discern any meaning?

P.S. - and I will restate what I said earlier: I attended a fundamentalist service with a friend and during the service, one person in the audience walked up to the stage, got down on all fours, and began barking like a dog. The audience erupted with “Praise God” and “Thank you Jesus”, and I am left wondering, “What in the world is going on?”

If barking like a dog is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, I want no part of it . . . sorry.

 

[grannymh]

I did not think I had to explain what I meant by “gibberish”.

Speaking a language that one is not familiar with, but is nevertheless a language, is NOT gibberish, and I never said it was.

I defined “gibberish” as some unintelligible utterance that NO ONE UNDERSTANDS, INCLUDING THE SPEAKER.

Now, with what I thought was so obvious out of the way, can someone please explain to me the purpose behind the Holy Spirit supposedly causing someone to utter sounds from which NO ONE can discern any meaning?

The Holy Spirit uses a language understood by God. My suggestion is to first get used to the fact that the Holy Spirit is free to use any language, in the same manner as French, Spanish, or English. Also, one needs to realize that God is the important person in the equation. Since God is the important focus, does it really matter if humans understand the sounds?

Furthermore, supposedly is not a polite word in relationship to the Holy Spirit. Unless of course you mean it as your way of saying that you do not believe tongues are the gift of the Holy Spirit. It is perfectly acceptable to not believe in these gifts.

My apology for being so cranky (feminine of snarky) when another person focuses on gibberish and shouts NO ONE can discern the meaning. I may be old fashioned, but I don’t like feeling that people are ignoring God Who is the One who is suppose to understand any kind of utterance from a humble human being.

Blessings,
granny

“The shepherds sing; and shall I silent be?”
from the poem “Christmas” by George Herbert

 

[grannymh]

I
P.S. - and I will restate what I said earlier: I attended a fundamentalist service with a friend and during the service, one person in the audience walked up to the stage, got down on all fours, and began barking like a dog. The audience erupted with “Praise God” and “Thank you Jesus”, and I am left wondering, “What in the world is going on?”

If barking like a dog is a manifestation of the Holy Spirit, I want no part of it . . . sorry.

Were you thinking of joining a fundamentalist group?
These groups are not part of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

 

[grannymh]

The Catholic church doesn’t have any official teaching. Recent popes have been favorably towards the movement and the charisms, teachings have been developed and approved by bishops for their diocese, but there is no official dogmatic teaching. See here.

As to what is generally accepted teaching, the Catechism makes references to tongues and other charisms. From the Catechism of the Catholic Church, “2003 Grace is first and foremost the gift of the Spirit who justifies and sanctifies us. But grace also includes the gifts that the Spirit grants us to associate us with his work, to enable us to collaborate in the salvation of others and in the growth of the Body of Christ, the Church. There are sacramental graces, gifts proper to the different sacraments. There are furthermore special graces, also called charisms after the Greek term used by St. Paul and meaning “favor,” “gratuitous gift,” “benefit.” Whatever their character - sometimes it is extraordinary, such as the gift of miracles or of tongues - charisms are oriented toward sanctifying grace and are intended for the common good of the Church. They are at the service of charity which builds up the Church.”

This page gives a good rundown on how church leaders view the Charismatic Renewal and the Charisms/Gifts, including favorable statements from John Paul and Benedict.

Unofficial teaching comes from Life in the Spirit Seminars and numerous books written by leaders in the movement such as Father Michael Scanlon and Monsignor Vincent Walsh. These books have been reviewed and approved by appropriate ecclesiastical authorities to make sure they contain nothing contrary to faith and teachings.

Speaking of Monsignor Vincent Walsh. This is the title of one of the best books on the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.

A Key to Charismatic Renewal in the Catholic Church** ISBN: 0-87029-033-9**

by Msgr. Vincent M. Walsh
Key of David Publications

The following book is a thorough study of “Baptism in the Holy Spirit” and the charisms in the early Church. It includes; Tertullian in his Catholic years, Hilary of Poitiers, Basil, Gregory Nazianzus, Cyril of Jerusalem, John Chrysostom, Philoxenus, John of Apamea, Theodoret of Cyrrhus, Severus of Antioch, and Joseph Hzaazya. They represent Latin, Greek, and Syrian cultures, almost the whole of the Mediterranean seaboard.

Christian Initiation and Baptism in the Holy Spirit
Evidence from the First Eight Centuries
ISBN 0-8146-5009-0
by Kilian McDonnell, O.S.B. and George Montague, S.M.

Kilian McDonnell, O.S.B. and George Montague, S.M. are also editors of a document based on “The Heart of the Church Consultation” held May 6 -11, 1990 in Techny,
Illinois. This document is "
Fanning the Flame, What Does Baptism in the Holy Spirit Have to Do with Christian Initiation?" ISBN 0-8146-5013-9

 

[Salvatore123]

“Were you thinking of joining a fundamentalist group? These groups are not part of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal.”

Absolutely not! I am as orthodox a Catholic of the Latin Rite as one can be. I doubt nothing Holy Mother Church teaches.

“The Holy Spirit uses a language understood by God. My suggestion is to first get used to the fact that the Holy Spirit is free to use any language, in the same manner as French, Spanish, or English. Also, one needs to realize that God is the important person in the equation. Since God is the important focus, does it really matter if humans understand the sounds?”

I understand that God and the Holy Spirit can do anything they wish - but I never questioned that.

I still am looking for an answer to what I consider a basic question - if there is no answer, then so be it: Why would the Holy Spirit cause someone to utter sounds that no one hearing understands, including the speaker? What possible benefit can that be for those speaking and listening?

Logically, as God can understand anything that is spoken by anyone, it seems to me that the Holy Spirit would at least cause the speaker to utter words that are intelligible by at least SOMEONE nearby. That way, not only is God understanding, but also those listening and perhaps the speaker.

Finally, I think one major reason why so many Catholics do not give much credence to or are “standoffish” to charismatics is that those of us who do NOT experience these “gifts” are usualy made to feel as though WE are somehow “less” religious or devoted because we do not engage in such behavior. It is almost like a “we were chosen and you were not” sort of thing.

 

[djrakowski]

Finally, I think one major reason why so many Catholics do not give much credence to or are “standoffish” to charismatics is that those of us who do NOT experience these “gifts” are usualy made to feel as though WE are somehow “less” religious or devoted because we do not engage in such behavior. It is almost like a “we were chosen and you were not” sort of thing.

Yes - precisely!

I went to a small gathering at the home of a local apologist, and one of the guests was the pastor of a charismatic parish about 70 miles southwest of where I live. His parish is widely known for having a lot of young men enter seminary in discernment of a calling to holy orders. One of the ther guests asked Father the reason behind these apparent vocations, and in explanation, he said, “Easy… We’re charismatic” - as if that, and nothing else, explained everything and nothing else was necessary.

Our parish is rather more traditional, is probably half the size of this charismatic parish, and we’ve seen as many young men called to the priesthood as theirs. I wonder how Father would explain these vocations in the absence of glossolalia in our parish…

 

[PLeeD]

Regarding praying in tongues, this passage describes the why and how:

Romans 8:26 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)

*Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought; but the Spirit himself asketh for us with unspeakable groanings.
*
Speaking in tongues is the same thing, except done in public, and an interpreter is supposed to be present to share the message from the Holy Spirit with the rest of the congregation.

Paul makes it clear that prophecy is more desirable than tongues and interpretation, but he also directs that tongues and interpretation are to be allowed in church. He also says he wishes that all would speak in tongues.

The bible gives us more detail about the practice of speaking and praying in tongues than practically anything else that happened in the early church. Why should someone here on CAF have to justify God’s ways when they are present in scripture?

 

[Salvatore123]

PLeeD,

My asking what purpose does it serve to have someone utter sounds that NO ONE CAN UNDERSTAND - NEITHER SPEAKER NOR AUDIENCE - is no different than you asking why Catholics believe that we actually consume the body and blood of Christ.

I can answer the question about transubstantiation.

I am STILL waiting to hear about “speaking in tongues” the way I defined it above and previously - making sounds that absolutely no one understands.

 

[gtrenewed]

It does not matter how humble we are, we keep getting that holier than thou label when we step out in faith over and above the norm. How many non-believers say that same thing when talking to a believer? Or how many protestants feel that way when Catholics say we are the One True Church? Doesn’t matter whether it is true or not, the charge is always there. Too many times people are judging on hearsay and not fact. We Catholics suffer that from some protestants.

If we want unity, we better start in our own house and show charity towards those who participate in a different calling; whether to a lay order or latin rite or eastern rite or pre or post Vat 2 or Charismatic Renewal or Knights of Columbus or whatever is approved by our Church Fathers.

I have cringed at the behavior of some Catholics but shouldn’t we act like Jesus; if someone makes us feel less - we love them more? Perhaps that person has low self esteem and is so excited that God has flowed through them in some charism that their response appears not as charitable as it should be; yet, that may not be their intention. Instead of assuming the worse, show the mature response and be loving - love one another, that is how the world will know you belong to Jesus.

Sam, if you really knew your limitations as your signature says, you would be more respectful. If you really want to know what all the “gibberish” is about there is more than enough material easily found out there. PleeD gives a good response. I will add that those groanings are intercessions that we don’t necessarily need to know about. Yet, if we ask we sometimes get the understanding. There are other excellant responses to look at here, as well.

As for when it started - it never stopped from the first shurch, nor will it until all is completed. When I first entered the Charismatic Renewal, a WWII vet told me he started praying in tongues while praying the rosary on the fantail of his ship during WWII. He knew nothing of it except that it was scriptural.

 

[thirddec]

In the most famous example of the Spirit speaking in toungues didn’t the apostles after the Paraclete descend speak in toungues and did they not speak in their own language but everyone present in that busy town hear them speak in their own native tongue. No one heard any gibberish and no one needed to translate for them.

Is not speaking in Tongues not aslo a sign of the Demonic also?

As I said previously I would not say its not true but I do believe the current practice is open to delusion so extreme caution for suseptable souls is necessary or there is a risk of small groups being influenced by very Charismatic ( normal use of word ) people and becoming a cult.

 

[Salvatore123]

gtrenewed,

Whenever I talk with conviction or without showing vulnerability, it has nothing to do with me personally. It has to do with Holy Mother Church.

I cannot help that protestants might take offense if I say that my faith is the one, true faith. If I did not feel thatl, why remain Catholic?

I don’t think it is condescending or vulgar (and I certainly don’t intend it to be) when I question the practices of people both in and out of our Church, when they act in a manner that is not “recognized” by our Church as valid. I am not saying the Church says that speaking in tongues is invalid - but that is not the same as saying it is.

I view speaking in tongues no differently than I view, with skepticism, people who say they have a “personal relationship with God and talk with him daily”. Is God in my life? Yes. Do I believe he watches over me? Yes. Do I give much credence to someone like a Jimmy Swaggart who gets on TV and says that God told him to launch a new satellite? No. Do I give credence to someone who starts screaming in Church or howling like a dog, all the while claiming he cannot help himself because he has been “overtaken by the Holy Spirit”? I am sorry, but I do not. Do I believe that if I send in X amount of dollars to a televangelist, God will suddenly answer my prayers, simply because that evangelist says so? Again, I am sorry, but I do not.

Now in every instance where I say I do not lend credence to such acts, I am sure you will say that I am not being “Christ like”. That may APPEAR to you to be the case. But I have never confused truth with charity. I have no problem telling anyone who happens to be around me that the Catholic Church is the one true church established by Christ while he was on earth. Now that may sound presumptuous and even braggadocious, but think about it - if I didn’t feel that way, why remain Catholic? Do I believe that all salvation flows through the Catholic Church? Again, yes I do - because the Church has infallibly taught that it does.

What I do NOT understand is the ambivalence or hesitancy of some people to stand up for our Church or are afraid to speak out about the fullness of truth in our faith. They seem to equate kindness with understanding.

But that is not what our Church or even Christ taught. It is, indeed, charitable to tell someone when they are doing wrong. It is, indeed, charitable to tell someone that our faith is the one true faith.

I submit that it is DISRESPECTFUL when we fail to correct our brothers and sisters, and when we fail to talk truth. I am not suggesting we do it in an “in your face” manner. But it aggravates me (and I am NOT saying you said or did this) to no end when people throw up the same old saw, “don’t be judgmental”.

Calling sin, a sin, is not being judgmental. Correcting bad behavior is not being judgmental. Pointing out that a particular form of worship denigrates God is not being judgmental.

I would be judgmental if I told someone I thought they were going to Hell.

I am NOT being judgmental when I question the veracity of someone barking like a dog and claiming the Holy Spirit is in them. Because as I said earlier (and another poster agreed with me): I have encountered charismatics who take a condescending attitude towards those of us who do not worship in such an animated manner. Although they may not come out and say it, the looks and the smirks tell the story that they feel sorry for me because I do not have the Holy Spirit in me like they do.

It may sound harsh, but I will never apologize for not running up and down the aisle in Church during Mass, shouting “Praise be to God” or “Halleluja”. I have always tried to take my “cues” from watching the Holy Fathers, and I have never seen any of them become animated so that they appear to have lost their minds. They worship with reverence AND deference.

If some people feel the need to let others know how much they love God by shouting that fact out loud, then so be it. But I am no less a believer if I choose to attend a Latin Mass, receive Holy Communion on my tongue, refuse to attend a Mass where people are dancing in the aisles, refuse to attend a Mass where the lector is dressed up as a witch because they are having a “Halloween Mass”, and refuse to attend a Mass where the priest, before giving his final blessing, changes his vestments and comes back dressed in a purple Barney costume to give a “Barney blessing”.

If you think I made any of the above things up for effect in this post, go to Youtube and type in “Barney Mass” “Halloween Mass” “Liturgical dancing” or “Mass abuses”. I hope your reaction would be the same as mine - profound sadness.

 

[grannymh]

Finally, I think one major reason why so many Catholics do not give much credence to or are “standoffish” to charismatics is that those of us who do NOT experience these “gifts” are usualy made to feel as though WE are somehow “less” religious or devoted because we do not engage in such behavior. It is almost like a “we were chosen and you were not” sort of thing.

This is one of the serious abuses of the Holy Spirit’s gift of prayer tongues. It was prevalent in the early days of the Catholic Charismatic Renewal for a number of reasons. Pride replaced the required humility. People did not fully understand the meaning of the gifts. People watched various groups of Pentecostals without realizing that the purpose of the Catholic Renewal is to deepen Catholic Faith. Many had learned Catholicism without studying the scriptures. People ignored the graces of the Catholic Sacraments. And so on and so on.

While this abuse can still be seen because people have difficulty letting go of personal pride, with proper instruction many of these faults have been overcome. Another safeguard is that proper Catholic Charismatic groups are organized as part of a diocese. In our area, the Bishop recently sent out a warning via the Charismatic liaison about an unauthorized “charismatic” speaker. In brief, proper Catholic Charismatic groups are subject to the Catholic Pastor and Bishop.

Blessings,
granny

John 3: 16 & 17

 

[grannymh]

In the most famous example of the Spirit speaking in toungues didn’t the apostles after the Paraclete descend speak in toungues and did they not speak in their own language but everyone present in that busy town hear them speak in their own native tongue. No one heard any gibberish and no one needed to translate for them.

This is a singular miracle and is definitely not what is meant by the two separate gifts of tongues.

Is not speaking in Tongues not aslo a sign of the Demonic also?

In a broad sense, there can be a great variety of so-called tongues. Because of this fear of Satan, which is correct, I like to make sure that people understand Catholicism first.

As I said previously I would not say its not true but I do believe the current practice is open to delusion so extreme caution for suseptable souls is necessary or there is a risk of small groups being influenced by very Charismatic ( normal use of word ) people and becoming a cult.

In post 33, I addressed most of the reasons for prideful abuse. Many of these reasons can apply to forms of delusion. Delusion basically comes from a lack of knowledge about the Catholic Faith and limited practice especially a lack of the Sacrament of Reconciliation and sporadic attendance at the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. Proper Catholic Charismatic groups have instruction sessions about the Catholic Faith before people petition God for His gifts.

There will always be the risk of small groups of people becoming a cult. When I did a series of Charismatic posts, one of the posters referred to such a group. When someone is interested in the Catholic Charismatic Renewal and is new to an area, it is important to check with the Pastor and the Diocesan Offices especially the office or person responsible for the spirituality of the diocese.

Blessings,
granny

John 6: 40

 

[grannymh]

Yes - precisely!

I went to a small gathering at the home of a local apologist, and one of the guests was the pastor of a charismatic parish about 70 miles southwest of where I live. His parish is widely known for having a lot of young men enter seminary in discernment of a calling to holy orders. One of the ther guests asked Father the reason behind these apparent vocations, and in explanation, he said, “Easy… We’re charismatic” - as if that, and nothing else, explained everything and nothing else was necessary.

Our parish is rather more traditional, is probably half the size of this charismatic parish, and we’ve seen as many young men called to the priesthood as theirs. I wonder how Father would explain these vocations in the absence of glossolalia in our parish…

May I give what I believe is the real interpretation of “We’re charismatic” in the example of vocations to the priesthood mentioned in post 27. Many priests are so traditionally Catholic that they interchange “charismatic” with “catholic”.

In our area, the influence of “charismatic Catholic priests” is restoring original altars to modern churches, the kind (I forget the Latin name) which have the tabernacle built in. Adoration of the Holy Eucharist is returning. The traditional Corpus Christi outdoor procession, canopy and all, is returning. Reference is returning.

Glossolalia, a totally inappropriate description which disgraces the powers of the Holy Spirit, is not the cause of anything besides confusion in the minds of Catholics.

Does you parish celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? Does the other parish celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? Do people pray to God in both parishes?
If yes, this is what leads to vocations.

Blessings,
granny

*Isaiah 55: 6-9 *

 

[djrakowski]

Does you parish celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? Does the other parish celebrate the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass? Do people pray to God in both parishes?
If yes, this is what leads to vocations.

Yes - and I know that’s what results in vocations - so does my pastor, and every committed Catholic in our parish. And that’s precisely what the pastor of the charismatic parish was denying.

EDIT: it was his contention that *only *charismatic parishes - those actively participating in the charismatic renewal - could reliably produce vocations.

 

[grannymh]

Regarding praying in tongues, this passage describes the why and how:

Romans 8:26 (Douay-Rheims 1899 American Edition)
Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmity. For we know not what we should pray for as we ought; but the Spirit himself asketh for us with unspeakable groanings.
Speaking in tongues is the same thing, except done in public, and an interpreter is supposed to be present to share the message from the Holy Spirit with the rest of the congregation.

Paul makes it clear that prophecy is more desirable than tongues and interpretation, but he also directs that tongues and interpretation are to be allowed in church. He also says he wishes that all would speak in tongues.

The bible gives us more detail about the practice of speaking and praying in tongues than practically anything else that happened in the early church. Why should someone here on CAF have to justify God’s ways when they are present in scripture?

Regarding the question “Why should someone here on CAF have to justify God’s ways when they are present in scripture?” I, too, was surprised at this particular point. Catholics, or anyone else, referring to abuses of the Holy Spirit gifts is understandable. But ignoring scripture amazed me until someone gave a link to the writings of people who oppose Catholic Charismatic Renewal. At best, I can say that there is a misunderstanding of religious history.

Last year, I had a wonderful discussion with someone, who may have belonged to an Assemblies of God Church. Forgive my poor memory, but are you that person? As I recall, our discussion was about prayer tongues used at home.

Pardon me, I do not intend to be prideful, but I do consider proper Catholic Charismatic Renewal as interpreting St. Paul correctly in addition to the writers in the first centuries. This discussion partner belonged to a church whose appreciation of the Holy Spirit and His gifts was so similar to the Catholic practice that the only things seemed to be missing were the Seven Catholic Sacraments, including the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

I have noticed that most CAF posters refer to Corinthians when debating the two gifts of tongues. Personally, I am with you (I include verse 27) in that Romans 8: 26-27 is basic for understanding the particular gifts of the Holy Spirit which employ tongues.

Technically, praying and speaking are similar in that they are expressed in tongues. However, Catholics differentiate between the two because speaking in tongues is one of the nine gifts described by St. Paul. Corinthians 12: 8-10. Sometimes these gifts are known as the classical list. Prophecy is the vernacular gift in the classical list.The gift of Interpretation (one of the nine) has to accompany the gift of speaking God’s message in tongues. (one of the nine)

The nine classical gifts are considered public ministries as they are meant to serve the community. They require prayer, scripture study, and Catholic instruction as preparation for their reception. Discernment is very important when one desires any of these gifts.

I loved hearing that St. Paul wished that all would pray in tongues. Please note that in some English translations, the word speak is used for two different gifts. The only way to tell the gifts apart is to study the entire context of the chapter(s) and the language style used by St Paul.

To me, St. Paul was speaking from his heart, from his own personal experiences of prayer, when he encouraged you and me to pray in tongues. Praying in tongues (a separate gift) refers to personal prayer directed solely to God. Just imagine the humility of Paul as he yielded to the Holy Spirit in his prayer time.

Blessings,
granny

Romans 8: 26-27

 

[grannymh]

Yes - and I know that’s what results in vocations - so does my pastor, and every committed Catholic in our parish. And that’s precisely what the pastor of the charismatic parish was denying.

EDIT: it was his contention that *only *charismatic parishes - those actively participating in the charismatic renewal - could reliably produce vocations.

Assuming that his contention was that only charismatic parishes could *reliably *produce vocations, than one can also assume that false pride is one of his issues. Knowing a little bit about politics, there could be other issues. Yet, in any case, this contention is wrong. Not only that, but by his denying, he was limiting the power of the Holy Spirit to his own preferences. He definitely needs our prayers.

I pray in tongues, especially in traffic. Praying in tongues beats road rage. I have also sung “Yahweh, You are near” in desperation. But my personal choice does not mean everyone must do the same. We are all part of the Mystical Body of Christ. Nonetheless, we are different parts. That is another favorite teaching of St. Paul.

My intention is to explain Catholic Charismatic Renewal as it really is. Naturally, I want to share it with others. Personally, I do not limit the Holy Spirit’s gifts. The short version of a hospital story is that a woman from another faith and myself both prayed in tongues at the bedside of a very sick person. Remember the verse where two or more are gathered in My name…

Blessings,
granny

---

THE HOLY EUCHARIST
****IS THE LIGHT, STRENGTH, AND LIFE OF OUR SOULS.

---

 

[grannymh]

If you think I made any of the above things up for effect in this post, go to Youtube and type in “Barney Mass” “Halloween Mass” “Liturgical dancing” or “Mass abuses”. I hope your reaction would be the same as mine - profound sadness.

The reason I have delayed answering your specific questions about tongues (posts 26, 29, and others) is that I know that many people are being influenced by what you cite in post 32 and others. You are right, what you cite is profoundly sad,

It has been my experience writing on CAF, that I need to deal with the junk before people can understand about tongues. I need to discuss the Catholic Charismatic Renewal as it really is, despite abuses.

There also has to be time for people to share their good experiences. Post 30 is an excellent example, especially the last paragraph about the WWII vet. I suspect that at least one CAF poster has had a similar experience but is in doubt about it.

Blessings,
granny

Mark 14: 32-42