Questions about the Novus Ordo Mass.

[CatholicGeek1]

I don’t think it’s unreasonable to get solid catholic answers to solid catholic questions on CATHOLIC ANSWERS!!

Faith, yes! Absolutely! Blind following…no! Absolutely not. Some of us want to know the reasons in order to understand the reasons and that is NOT rebellion or complaining or arguing. It’s prudence and discernment. The lack of proper catechesis among the laity is a huge problem (we all agree on that) and questions beget learning. You have a chance here to educate. I was not asking for YOU to make the decisions as you suggest…I was asking for the information to be presented.

What I am saying is that there is no one here who is qualified to give those answers IMO. All that can be offered here are opinions. While those can be valuable, the only people that can give the actual answers to the reasons for a decision are those that made the decision.

Learning is important I will give you that, but when we cannot understand something that the Church is teaching or allowing the answer is to pray about it and try to learn and try to understand, but in the meantime to have faith and follow the leadership, not to question their decision or demand answers that satisfy your own curiosity. It is very easy to move from questioning a decision to complaining/rebelling against such idea.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

What I am saying is that there is no one here who is qualified to give those answers IMO. All that can be offered here are opinions. While those can be valuable, the only people that can give the actual answers to the reasons for a decision are those that made the decision.

Learning is important I will give you that, but when we cannot understand something that the Church is teaching or allowing the answer is to pray about it and try to learn and try to understand, but in the meantime to have faith and follow the leadership, not to question their decision or demand answers that satisfy your own curiosity. It is very easy to move from questioning a decision to complaining/rebelling against such idea.

True…very true. There are some qualified people on here. I’m talking about the people who have read all the documents, post the links, quote the councils, have the vatican website bookmarked and know where to look, etc… I’m not one of them yet! I get really lost trying to find proper documentation…Saint so-n-so said X and Pope whoever said Y…ARGHHH!

I’ll say it again…Thank God we have 2 (for the sake of this discussion) valid rites!! You can’t really “rebel” by assisting at the TLM…

 

[thewanderer]

Well are you not picking and choosing? The ordinary way to recieve in on the tongue and kneeling, are you not picking and choosing to recieve in the extraordinary way? Perhaps you should pray not to divide yourself from Tradition, or maybe you’re comparing me to Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi because you feel that you are being like them by recieveing in the same way that they do, I don’t know. I don’t like being called a cafiteria Catholic because I accept the Traditions that have made thousands of saints and blesseds holy. God bless you!

Please do, because I looked up what you said as well, your very first post said that I was uniting with Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi by “picking and choosing” what I believe. Please read my posts, I never said that you do not believe Christ is present, I do not know you or what you believe, I just said that Communion in the hand was started as a way to show that the person receiving does not believe that Christ is truly present. That is no longer the case, but that is the history of it, read Communion in the Hand by Fr. Juan Rodolfo Laise, which is sold on the FSSPs website, a Traditional group in full communion with Rome. And to be clear, THE CHURCH DOES NOT TEACH COMMUNION IN THE HAND, THE ORDINARY FORM IS ON THE TONGUE AND KNEELING, COMMUNION IN THE HAND IS AN INDULT. God bless you!

Following this instruction, the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) did indeed request permission that Communion in the hand be allowed in their territory. For this reason, the 2002 General Instruction [Institution] of the Roman Missal (GIRM), the official instruction manual for the Mass, states that in the U.S. the communicant “may choose whether to receive in the hand or on the tongue.”

I’m sorry, but if you are going to argue that it is wrong to follow an allowed practice that is not the ordinary practice then you will have to follow through with your logic and speak out just as strongly against people attending the extraordinary form of the Mass as you now currently speak out against people recceiving in the hand. The only reason you have given against people receiving communion in the hand is that it is not the norm. Well, the EF is also not the norm. If the fact that something is not the norm is a sufficient reason to condemn it then, for you to be logically consistent you will have to condemn both CITH and the EF. I somehow doubt that you are willing to condemn the EF(and rightfully so) however, perhaps realizing that there is an inconsistency in your thoughts on this matter might help you to become more comfortable with accepting other practices such as CITH. If it is an allowed practice, which is not performed irreverently or abused by a person then how are they wrong for doing it? Why would you try to convince them to do otherwise?

 

[Southern]

We are called to be as patient with the Church as the Lord has been with each of us.

If a change were to happen too abruptly then we would all be in trouble! We must pray that the Church be guided by the Holy Spirit and Pray for our New Pope that his heart remain open to the Holy Spirit to guide the Church where God Calls it to go! I believe the world can change. And I believe that this Pope was sent to clean house of all that is evil in the Church. Time will tell!

 

[Armor_of_Light]

If a change were to happen too abruptly then we would all be in trouble!

Uh…

Yup.

 

[TimothyH]

Yeah you are right about that. I do plan on praying about it more. I probably should stay off of these forums since they only tend to confuse me further.

A man with a quote from St. Josemaria Escriva in his signature cannot possibly be on the wrong path.

He might wander from the path from time to time, but in general, he has to be going in the right direction.

My parish has a relic of the Saint. I pray to him daily.

-Tim-

 

[TimothyH]

If a change were to happen too abruptly then we would all be in trouble! We must pray that the Church be guided by the Holy Spirit and Pray for our New Pope that his heart remain open to the Holy Spirit to guide the Church where God Calls it to go! I believe the world can change. And I believe that this Pope was sent to clean house of all that is evil in the Church. Time will tell!

I don’t think people realize how abruptly change has happened in the Church.

The introduction of Aristotlean philosphy was radical and ripped the Church apart in many places. Bishops were excommunicated over it. Before philosophy and reason were introduced, theology was monastic, based on meditation and the scriptures, Lectio, etc. It was quite radical to apply reason and logic to theology - its rise was rapid and deeply devisive, yet no one complains that the Summa, nor The Sentances which preceeded it, were products of moving too quickly.

Before St. Francis, all religious were likewise monastic. St. Francis went from taking his clothes off in the town square to thousands of friars all over Europe in twenty two years and the new concept of “Active religious” completely transformed the Church. No one complains that Dominicans and Franciscans are a product of moving too quickly.

Even Gregorian Chant was imposed under the threat of harsh penalties in some places. No one complains about it.

The permanent diaconate was renewed in 1968 after one thousand years of disuse. One day there were no permanent deacons and the next day, by stroke of the Pope’s pen, there they were. Many deeply resented married clerics and married men wearning the roman collar and many were openly criticised, rejected and their legitimate authority attacked. Now you are hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn’t want a dozen deacons in their parish.

My point is that not all change in the Church is slow, nor should it always be. I think some use the “slow organic change” argument in honest ignorance of Church history.

-Tim-

 

[msokeefe]

I am not trying to be judgemental or rude in posting this forum. I just need some help and direction because everthing that I am about to mention causes me great spiritual anguish. I have problems determining God’s will, and I really need someone to explain to me why some of this stuff is allowed and why I should not be concerned about it. I have gone back and forth, thinking I should only go to Latin Mass, and then thinking the Novus Ordo was okay. I have even entertained the idea of attending an SSPX chapel.

I have read the Vatican II document Sacrosanctum Concilium (SC) which calls for reform of the Liturgy. I do not necessarily have an issue with the reform, or with the Novus Ordo Mass, but I have a problem with the way that it is celebrated. SC never calls for the Holy Eucharist to be distributed in the hand. I personally think that Eucharist in the hand is wrong, and there is all kinds of evidence to support that. Communion in the hand was an indult, which expired and yet it continued after its expiration. It was even started as an abuse and is a way to show that the person receiving does not believe that Christ is truly present.

SC also never called for the priest to face the people. Ad Orientum Mass is a way for the priest to lead the faithful to God. The Priest and the faithful all face God and it is obviously a sacrifice that is taking place. I have only ever been to one Ad Orientum Novus Ordo Mass and it is two states away from me so I can’t go to it whenever I want to, although I would if I could. When the priest faces the people the nature of the sacrifice is taken away and the Mass becomes more of a meal. And the priest is no longer facing God, it is as if we are there to worship ourselves.

SC also never called for female altar servers, it only called for Eucharistic ministers in unusual circumstances. It also said that there should be a period of silence, that Gregorian Chant should be the norm, and that the music shouldn’t take away from the sacredness of the Mass.

Almost every Catholic Mass that you go to every weekend goes against what SC say. The priest faces the people, the Eucharist is distributed in the hand, Eucharisitic ministers distribute communion in usual circumstances, there are female altar servers, guitars, drums, no silence, and there is basically never Gregorian Chant. When Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi received Holy Communion at the Pope’s Mass it was very disheartening for me. I don’t understand hoe Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are Catholics in good standing but the SSPX are not. I am really having a crisis of faith about this, and I am a husband and a father of two boys with one more boy on the way. I want them all to go to Heaven so I want to follow Jesus the way he wants to be followed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

You posted an excellent commentary. I agree with you 100%. I go to Latin Mass. It is barely supported by the Diocese. Should the Latin Mass end under Pope Francis, I will go to SSPX. Vatican II was instituted by people with “free will”. Don’t tell me the abberations of the Novus Ordo are isolated incidents, it is supported by many in the Church. If Novus Ordo is so perfect, why does Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Ranjith speak out against some of the violations?

According to Pope Francis, muslims, jews and protestants are all children of God, so if you feel the need to go to an SSPX chapel, I think you would be in good standing. SSPX has a Mass Sacrifice that was never abrogated by the Church.

 

[Armor_of_Light]

You posted an excellent commentary. I agree with you 100%. I go to Latin Mass. It is barely supported by the Diocese. Should the Latin Mass end under Pope Francis, I will go to SSPX. Vatican II was instituted by people with “free will”. Don’t tell me the abberations of the Novus Ordo are isolated incidents, it is supported by many in the Church. If Novus Ordo is so perfect, why does Cardinal Burke and Cardinal Ranjith speak out against some of the violations?

According to Pope Francis, muslims, jews and protestants are all children of God, so if you feel the need to go to an SSPX chapel, I think you would be in good standing. SSPX has a Mass Sacrifice that was never abrogated by the Church.

Excellent and salient points! See you after the suspension has been lifted or another username after the ban. Just kidding people!! Laugh a little…

 

[CatholicGeek1]

True…very true. There are some qualified people on here. I’m talking about the people who have read all the documents, post the links, quote the councils, have the vatican website bookmarked and know where to look, etc… I’m not one of them yet! I get really lost trying to find proper documentation…Saint so-n-so said X and Pope whoever said Y…ARGHHH!

I’ll say it again…Thank God we have 2 (for the sake of this discussion) valid rites!! You can’t really “rebel” by assisting at the TLM…

No you cannot rebel by being part of the TLM as both are valid. My criticisms of rebellion etc, were aimed at those that discount the NO and the LEGITIMATE variations of it and say that those that participate in it are somehow displeasing God.

 

[Southern]

Please do, because I looked up what you said as well, your very first post said that I was uniting with Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi by “picking and choosing” what I believe. Please read my posts, I never said that you do not believe Christ is present, I do not know you or what you believe, I just said that Communion in the hand was started as a way to show that the person receiving does not believe that Christ is truly present. That is no longer the case, but that is the history of it, read Communion in the Hand by Fr. Juan Rodolfo Laise, which is sold on the FSSPs website, a Traditional group in full communion with Rome. And to be clear, THE CHURCH DOES NOT TEACH COMMUNION IN THE HAND, THE ORDINARY FORM IS ON THE TONGUE AND KNEELING, COMMUNION IN THE HAND IS AN INDULT. God bless you!

 

[Southern]

I don’t think people realize how abruptly change has happened in the Church.

The introduction of Aristotlean philosphy was radical and ripped the Church apart in many places. Bishops were excommunicated over it. Before philosophy and reason were introduced, theology was monastic, based on meditation and the scriptures, Lectio, etc. It was quite radical to apply reason and logic to theology - its rise was rapid and deeply devisive, yet no one complains that the Summa, nor The Sentances which preceeded it, were products of moving too quickly.

Before St. Francis, all religious were likewise monastic. St. Francis went from taking his clothes off in the town square to thousands of friars all over Europe in twenty two years and the new concept of “Active religious” completely transformed the Church. No one complains that Dominicans and Franciscans are a product of moving too quickly.

Even Gregorian Chant was imposed under the threat of harsh penalties in some places. No one complains about it.

The permanent diaconate was renewed in 1968 after one thousand years of disuse. One day there were no permanent deacons and the next day, by stroke of the Pope’s pen, there they were. Many deeply resented married clerics and married men wearning the roman collar and many were openly criticised, rejected and their legitimate authority attacked. Now you are hard pressed to find anyone who wouldn’t want a dozen deacons in their parish.

My point is that not all change in the Church is slow, nor should it always be. I think some use the “slow organic change” argument in honest ignorance of Church history.

-Tim-

As long as the abrupt change is for the good of God’s Glory!!! You got it Friend!!! And you are absolutely correct. People do not realize how the Church has changed. Many go on what they know in their lifetime. In which I can’t blame them if that’s all they know. Research is always the key and never to be judgemental of our Brothers and Sisters in Christ!

 

[simple_soul]

Wow this thread is long for just being started yesterday. I want to try and reassure you of some of your concerns but am not very good or knowledgable with and of all the lagistics of it all to explain it adequetly but I can try to share my own thoughts or experiences regarding your concers.

I am not trying to be judgemental or rude in posting this forum. I just need some help and direction because everthing that I am about to mention causes me great spiritual anguish. I have problems deterimining God’s will, and I really need someone to explain to me why some of this stuff is allowed and why I should not be concerned about it. I have gone back and forth, thinking I should only go to Latin Mass, and then thinking the Novus Ordo was okay. I have even entertained the idea of attending an SSPX chapel.

I have struggled with this also. The only thing that helps me through is learning to trust in Jesus and His promises.

I have read the Vatican II document Sacrosanctum Concilium (SC) which calls for reform of the Liturgy. I do not necessarily have an issue with the reform, or with the Novus Ordo Mass, but I have a problem with the way that it is celebrated. SC never calls for the Holy Eucharist to be distributed in the hand. I personally think that Eucharist in the hand is wrong, and there is all kinds of evidence to support that. Communion in the hand was an indult, which expired and yet it continued after its expiration. It was even started as an abuse and is a way to show that the person receiving does not believe that Christ is truly present.

For me it was never an issue of rebellion but rather accepting that the church allows it and that because she allows it their must be something good about it so…one day I went to a church that I knew allowed reception of Jesus in the hand to receive Him this way and learn why it was allowed. I wondered if I would feel scandalized receiving Him this way but did not. What I found was that it made me tremble at the awesomeness that Jesus wanted to be with me and had no problem with me holding Him in my hands. It was like He was reasuring me it was ok. He wanted me to bold Him and cherish Him and it left me in peace and reasurence. It reminded me of Our Blessed Virgin Mary and how she held Him In her hands and I asked her to help me meep Him close to me so that I could learn from Him and grow close to Him as she did so that I will always remain Faithful to Him forever.

SC also never called for the priest to face the people. Ad Orientum Mass is a way for the priest to lead the faithful to God. The Priest and the faithful all face God and it is obviously a sacrifice that is taking place. I have only ever been to one Ad Orientum Novus Ordo Mass and it is two states away from me so I can’t go to it whenever I want to, although I would if I could. When the priest faces the people the nature of the sacrifice is taken away and the Mass becomes more of a meal. And the priest is no longer facing God, it is as if we are there to worship ourselves.

I never saw it this way and do not see it this way. The way I see it is that with the priest facing the people re-enforces the focuse on Jesus. In fact it puts Him right in the center of us and reminds us to keep Jesus at the center of not only ourselves but in the center of our community. It seems to drive home the understanding that Jesus truly is among us and that all things are of Him and lead to Him because He reconciles us to Himself. It always reminds me of how Jesus, after He rose from the dead, was suddenly with them in the room they had locked themselves in and He says; “Peace be with you.”

SC also never called for female altar servers, it only called for Eucharistic ministers in unusual circumstances. It also said that there should be a period of silence, that Gregorian Chant should be the norm, and that the music shouldn’t take away from the sacredness of the Mass.

Maybe in this way girls will learn that thier is a place for them in the church and with proper guidance and support they will grow to understand what that is.

Almost every Catholic Mass that you go to every weekend goes against what SC say. The priest faces the people, the Eucharist is distributed in the hand, Eucharisitic ministers distribute communion in usual circumstances, there are female altar servers, guitars, drums, no silence, and there is basically never Gregorian Chant. When Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi received Holy Communion at the Pope’s Mass it was very disheartening for me. I don’t understand hoe Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are Catholics in good standing but the SSPX are not. I am really having a crisis of faith about this, and I am a husband and a father of two boys with one more boy on the way. I want them all to go to Heaven so I want to follow Jesus the way he wants to be followed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

This will take a lot of time and growing in holiness to understand, I know because I am still working my way through a lot. Maybe you will be able to work through it more quickly if God so graces you. All I can say for now is Jesus I trust in You and I know the Pope and the magesterium are Your voice. Please help me to hear, learn, understand, and accept your voice as you speak to me through them.

 

[Shamati]

I feel with you catholics who witness what is going on and it causes questions and uncertainty in spirit.

I was born into the swedish state lutheran church and raised an agnostic. After i realised there is a creator it rocked my whole existence and eventually led me to Christ, the faith of my ancestors. After having visited the lutheran mass for some time I felt drawn towards a church with a living spiritual tradition, that has not caved in to materialism and the wonders of the world but are rooted in a spiritual tradition handed down from the apostles and deepened by saintly teachers of the soul.
I turned to catholicism instead of orthodoxy (sweden have more orthodox) at first because it felt more organized and authoritative and also because i can relate to it being a largely western tradition. But i was sad to realise that the Mass that I heard was the most beautiful thing on this side of Heaven was almost identical to the lutheran. I didnt understand why the church had classes in zen meditation instead of hesychastic and contemplative prayer either. This all led me to deeper investigations in theology and christian spirituality in the eastern and western monasteries which led me to the conclusion that I must check out the Orhodox churches lithurgy. After doing so and the profound spiritual sensations and awe it invoked in me I have now left out catholicism as a viable option for conversion. And it all began with what you call th Novus Ordo mass which to me seem to be the Lutheran mass. There are of course other factors involved that have popped up but I was very determined for a while to be under the Pope of Rome.

The saddest part in any denomination of today is the endless divisions and strife happening and which in catholicism anno 2013 makes itself known as a conflict or struggle between traditionalists and modernists. I think it’s sad because it really misleads many christians into a state of conflict and out of a state of spiritual progress. I believe Modernism/post-modernism and western society/culture is Babylon. Some theologian called Thomas Hopko said that he believed a sign of the end times coming close would be when christians themselves apostize to the faith of this world and promotes it as genuine christianity

 

[simple_soul]

I feel with you catholics who witness what is going on and it causes questions and uncertainty in spirit.

I was born into the swedish state lutheran church and raised an agnostic. After i realised there is a creator it rocked my whole existence and eventually led me to Christ, the faith of my ancestors. After having visited the lutheran mass for some time I felt drawn towards a church with a living spiritual tradition, that has not caved in to materialism and the wonders of the world but are rooted in a spiritual tradition handed down from the apostles and deepened by saintly teachers of the soul.
I turned to catholicism instead of orthodoxy (sweden have more orthodox) at first because it felt more organized and authoritative and also because i can relate to it being a largely western tradition. But i was sad to realise that the Mass that I heard was the most beautiful thing on this side of Heaven was almost identical to the lutheran. I didnt understand why the church had classes in zen meditation instead of hesychastic and contemplative prayer either. This all led me to deeper investigations in theology and christian spirituality in the eastern and western monasteries which led me to the conclusion that I must check out the Orhodox churches lithurgy. After doing so and the profound spiritual sensations and awe it invoked in me I have now left out catholicism as a viable option for conversion. And it all began with what you call th Novus Ordo mass which to me seem to be the Lutheran mass. There are of course other factors involved that have popped up but I was very determined for a while to be under the Pope of Rome.

The saddest part in any denomination of today is the endless divisions and strife happening and which in catholicism anno 2013 makes itself known as a conflict or struggle between traditionalists and modernists. I think it’s sad because it really misleads many christians into a state of conflict and out of a state of spiritual progress. I believe Modernism/post-modernism and western society/culture is Babylon. Some theologian called Thomas Hopko said that he believed a sign of the end times coming close would be when christians themselves apostize to the faith of this world and promotes it as genuine christianity

and that would take us back to the age old question… and what the “dispute” would seem to be all about. What constitutes genuin Christianity?

 

[Isaiah45_9]

I am not trying to be judgemental or rude in posting this forum. I just need some help and direction because everthing that I am about to mention causes me great spiritual anguish. I have problems determining God’s will, and I really need someone to explain to me why some of this stuff is allowed and why I should not be concerned about it. I have gone back and forth, thinking I should only go to Latin Mass, and then thinking the Novus Ordo was okay. I have even entertained the idea of attending an SSPX chapel.

I have read the Vatican II document Sacrosanctum Concilium (SC) which calls for reform of the Liturgy. I do not necessarily have an issue with the reform, or with the Novus Ordo Mass, but I have a problem with the way that it is celebrated. SC never calls for the Holy Eucharist to be distributed in the hand. I personally think that Eucharist in the hand is wrong, and there is all kinds of evidence to support that. Communion in the hand was an indult, which expired and yet it continued after its expiration. It was even started as an abuse and is a way to show that the person receiving does not believe that Christ is truly present.

SC also never called for the priest to face the people. Ad Orientum Mass is a way for the priest to lead the faithful to God. The Priest and the faithful all face God and it is obviously a sacrifice that is taking place. I have only ever been to one Ad Orientum Novus Ordo Mass and it is two states away from me so I can’t go to it whenever I want to, although I would if I could. When the priest faces the people the nature of the sacrifice is taken away and the Mass becomes more of a meal. And the priest is no longer facing God, it is as if we are there to worship ourselves.

SC also never called for female altar servers, it only called for Eucharistic ministers in unusual circumstances. It also said that there should be a period of silence, that Gregorian Chant should be the norm, and that the music shouldn’t take away from the sacredness of the Mass.

Almost every Catholic Mass that you go to every weekend goes against what SC say. The priest faces the people, the Eucharist is distributed in the hand, Eucharisitic ministers distribute communion in usual circumstances, there are female altar servers, guitars, drums, no silence, and there is basically never Gregorian Chant. When Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi received Holy Communion at the Pope’s Mass it was very disheartening for me. I don’t understand hoe Joe Biden and Nancy Pelosi are Catholics in good standing but the SSPX are not. I am really having a crisis of faith about this, and I am a husband and a father of two boys with one more boy on the way. I want them all to go to Heaven so I want to follow Jesus the way he wants to be followed. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I understand that the breaking of the bread was done by passing the bread from hand to hand and never placing it in another’s mouth.

Having said that, it felt weird coming back to Rome about 2 years ago and seeing this practice (Eucharist in the hand), more so since I was an altar boy and I had to use the long arm plate thingy to put under the people’s chin in the event the Holy Host fell from their mouths.

 

[curlycool89]

The introduction of Aristotlean philosphy was radical and ripped the Church apart in many places. Bishops were excommunicated over it.

Thomas Aquinas himself was condemned over it and his opinions were forbidden for a time at both Paris and Oxford (the 2 greatest universities in Christendom at the time) after his death.

As it turns out, everything in western philosophy from Augustine to before Thomas was based on Neo-Platonism. Including such bizarre notions as a human person having more than one soul (it’s called the plurality theory of the soul). Again, Aquinas was nearly condemned for arguing that a person only had one soul (which was only a little while later declared to be the right interpretation.

Not only that, the only exposure in the west to Plato was of the Timaeus (and even then only the first half was available in Latin). Suffice to say that the Timaeus is where the myth of Atlantis was introduced.

 

[felsguy]

God doesn’t change, but that does not mean that our understanding of him cannot change. I think that what Vatican II was really saying was that, in light of our current understanding of the Lord and tradition, etc, there are some rules that we are able to change and adapt in such a way that they not only fit better within the needs/wants of the modern parishioner, but also still fit within the teachings of Christ and the Church.

Bears repeating

.

 

[Shamati]

and that would take us back to the age old question… and what the “dispute” would seem to be all about. What constitutes genuin Christianity?

I dont want to argue about which is the “true” church. They are very different in their approaches to both spirituality and theology and while I’m probably biased by now I believe both approaches could have been complementary to eachother but that it is now to late for a reunion.

I justed wanted to share with the forum the fact that the Mass of the Catholic Church led me away from conversion. I don’t share the same convictions with many catholics that it is necessary to be a part of the Roman Catholic Church to achieve salvation but I do believe one is most likely to find the means to achieve this salvation within historical christianity.
Most important for me is the worship of God & teachings for personal spirituality. As it is now I believe that my participation in worship in the Orthodox Divine Lithurgy of St. John Chrysostom gives a more proper glory to God than the Novus Ordo and protestant massess.

That being said, I have not yet been able to visit a Latin / Gregorian Mass because it’s far away from my home.

There is probably conflicts within every church body these days and many members have been deeply influenced by todays mentality & “philosophy” and swept away with the winds of change.

 

[simple_soul]

I dont want to argue about which is the “true” church. They are very different in their approaches to both spirituality and theology and while I’m probably biased by now I believe both approaches could have been complementary to eachother but that it is now to late for a reunion.

I justed wanted to share with the forum the fact that the Mass of the Catholic Church led me away from conversion. I don’t share the same convictions with many catholics that it is necessary to be a part of the Roman Catholic Church to achieve salvation but I do believe one is most likely to find the means to achieve this salvation within historical christianity.
Most important for me is the worship of God & teachings for personal spirituality. As it is now I believe that my participation in worship in the Orthodox Divine Lithurgy of St. John Chrysostom gives a more proper glory to God than the Novus Ordo and protestant massess.

That being said, I have not yet been able to visit a Latin / Gregorian Mass because it’s far away from my home.

There is probably conflicts within every church body these days and many members have been deeply influenced by todays mentality & “philosophy” and swept away with the winds of change.

It is good to read that you do not want to argue. It also amasses me how we all are so spiritually unique. I grew up going to the EF occasionally and I always found it Spiritually uplifting as well as the OF aka NO. I currently go to a Catholic Church that celebrates the Divine Liturgy of St. John Chrysostom. I am Spiritually uplifted with this Rite or “form” also. My reasons for choosing this Church are kind of varied but one of the biggest reasons is because I believed that I had a very close and intimate union with God and I made a promise to my unborn children that I would try to make available to them every opportunity that I could for God to establish an intimate relationship with them. The church I go to allows Confirmation and Reception of the Eucharist from the moment of Baptism. They call it the Holy Mystery of Christian Illumination. I wanted my children to be armed to the teeth the the power of the Holy Spirit as soon as I could and as often as I could. What I found quite surprising when I started going to the OF aka NO was that they said and did things in their Liturgy that were the same or very similar. Maybe there is hope for that reunion after all.. But they still do not allow communion and confirmation until the children are older. So I am with the Rite that I am because it meats our spiritual needs right now. Anyway just wanted to pray that you find your way to the Rite that offers you the Sacraments in a Spirituality that meats your needs and may your relationship with continue to grow and may the eyes of your heart mind and soul continue to be opened to the diverse unity that the Catholic Church is and may we all grow to perfect and appreciate all Rites and their forms. Please keep me in your prayers and may God continue to Bless you and hold in the palm of His hand as you continue your journey to Him…