Questions about the Papacy

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Lexzar said:
Are any of those Biblical? Prove it. Thx. :dancing:
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Alright dude, we’re pulling your chain.😃
The answer to your question is…Catholics do not kiss the Pope’s feet. Is it Biblical? not as far as I know.
We are however, in the presence of the Pope, required to eat German food.
😃
 
JustaServant said:
Alright dude, we’re pulling your chain.😃
The answer to your question is…Catholics do not kiss the Pope’s feet. Is it Biblical? not as far as I know.
We are however, in the presence of the Pope,** required to eat German food.**
😃
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See, you guys really are Lutheran. :p:p

Jon
 
Ah, this thread is funny! Seriously though OP, it’s just tradition and it’s not at all required. I’m not absolutely sure, but I’m willing to guess the tradition comes to us from way back in feudal times when vassals did things like that to show their loyalty to a superior. Interestingly enough, our mode of praying with hands clasped and head bowed also hearkens back to feudal ideas of lord and vassal, I believe. God is Lord, and we are his vassals; we bow our heads and fold our hands to acknowledge His superiority.

🙂 Always great to see a sense of humor here on CAF.
 
Tops one of the best threads i’ve seen! No disrespect to the OP.
 
Mmmm okay then, kissing of the Pope’s feet is an old tradition and I guess was forbidden. Peter himself denied it (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9) . Shouldn’t we abolish traditions that are against Biblical teaching? What do you think?

Now, about the papacy, the term “vicar” comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means “instead of.” In the Catholic Church, the vicar is the representative of a higher-ranking official, with all of the same authority and power that that official has. Calling the pope the “Vicar of Christ” implies that he has the same power and authority that Christ had over the church.

Now my question is, why would there be a need for a vicar if Jesus is already there? “Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore, He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:23-25). Btw, I’m only looking for answers, I’m not saying anyone’s wrong. I’m currently collecting information, more like an interview to some Christian denominations on what they would say about a certain topic. Peace. 🙂
 
Lexzar said:
Mmmm okay then, kissing of the Pope’s feet is an old tradition and I guess was forbidden. Peter himself denied it (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9) . Shouldn’t we abolish traditions that are against Biblical teaching? What do you think?
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I don’t like the idea of kneeling before clergy (procession with gifts) but standing up for receiving the consecrated Host as in some celebrations.

That foot kissing was an old thing. People of the middle ages were crazy about chains of command, subordination, subjection, signs of it etc. Worse things than kissing the Pope’s foot happened between secular rulers. It was a time when in some places of the world the lord would demand the vassal’s wife and get her. A king of Cyprus in 14th or 15th century was made to worship the ground the sultan walked on before being released after a military defeat. Walking on people’s necks was en vogue with the Byzantine emperors. In fact, in 17th century, they dragged a guy who had the wrong thoughts through the streets of London with his face pressed into a horse’s behind.

Between various people, kissing a Pope’s foot could be a reverential sign of humble subjection (hand with father or priest or king, foot with the pope, I guess), but with others, obviously, it would be a show of power.
 
Lexzar said:
Mmmm okay then, kissing of the Pope’s feet is an old tradition and I guess was forbidden. Peter himself denied it (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9) . Shouldn’t we abolish traditions that are against Biblical teaching? What do you think?
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I think we should read the entire passage, not just part of it.
And it came to pass, that when Peter was come in, Cornelius came to meet him, and falling at his feet adored. But Peter lifted him up, saying: Arise, I myself also am a man.
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Acts 10:25-26.

We agree that adoration of Peter (or any of the Apostles, or any human, for that matter) is wrong. I don’t know of any tradition of kissing the Pope’s feet, and it certainly isn’t happening today. If it did in the past, I’m sure there’s some logical explanation. But it’s not required. And adoration of the Pope is and always has been prohibited.
Lexzar said:
Now, about the papacy, the term “vicar” comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means “instead of.” In the Catholic Church, the vicar is the representative of a higher-ranking official, with all of the same authority and power that that official has. Calling the pope the “Vicar of Christ” implies that he has the same power and authority that Christ had over the church.
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No, the Pope does not have the same power and authority that Christ has over the Church. The Pope is the leader of the Church, but he answers to Jesus. The Pope has no power to do anything other than carry out Jesus’ commands. “Feed my sheep,” you know?

Basically, He left us someone to run the Church after His Resurrection. That doesn’t mean He appointed a replacement; it’s just His vicar. Your impression that a vicar has all the authority of the principal is incorrect; a vicar is a delegate.
Lexzar said:
Now my question is why would there be a need for a vicar if Jesus is already there? “Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore, He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:23-25). Btw, I’m only looking for answers, I’m not saying anyone’s wrong. I’m currently collecting information, more like an interview to some Christian denominations on what they would say about a certain topic. Peace. 🙂
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Jesus is already here. But Scripture tells us that not just anyone can interpret Scripture. “And Philip running thither, heard him reading the prophet Isaias. And he said: Thinkest thou that thou understandest what thou readest? Who said: And how can I, unless some man shew me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him” (Acts 8:30-31).

Jesus Himself appointed the Apostles to teach the rest of us. And the Bible teaches us that the Apostles entrusted their duties to their successors. As for the hierarchical nature of the Church, read what Peter had to say about it:
To the elders among you, I appeal as a fellow elder and a witness of Christ’s sufferings who also will share in the glory to be revealed: Be shepherds of God’s flock that is under your care, watching over them—not because you must, but because you are willing, as God wants you to be; not pursuing dishonest gain, but eager to serve; not lording it over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock. And when the Chief Shepherd appears, you will receive the crown of glory that will never fade away. In the same way, you who are younger, submit yourselves to your elders. All of you, clothe yourselves with humility toward one another, because “God opposes the proud but shows favor to the humble.”
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1 Peter 5:1-5.

Note: the word “Elders” in 1 Peter 5:1 was “Πρεσβυτέρους,” transliterated as “Presbyterous,” from which the word “priest” is derived. Thus, the Bible tells us to obey the hierarchy.
 
Lexzar said:
Mmmm okay then, kissing of the Pope’s feet is an old tradition and I guess was forbidden. Peter himself denied it (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9) . Shouldn’t we abolish traditions that are against Biblical teaching? What do you think?

Now, about the papacy, the term “vicar” comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means “instead of.” In the Catholic Church, the vicar is the representative of a higher-ranking official, with all of the same authority and power that that official has. Calling the pope the “Vicar of Christ” implies that he has the same power and authority that Christ had over the church.

Now my question is, why would there be a need for a vicar if Jesus is already there? “Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore, He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:23-25). Btw, I’m only looking for answers, I’m not saying anyone’s wrong. I’m currently collecting information, more like an interview to some Christian denominations on what they would say about a certain topic. Peace. 🙂
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If you’re going to use scripture to prove a point, I’m afraid the three verses you’ve used have nothing to do with this topic. All of those verses use the word “worship.” Catholics do not worship the pope. I believe you have a complete misunderstanding of the papacy. 👍:
 
Lexzar said:
Mmmm okay then, kissing of the Pope’s feet is an old tradition and I guess was forbidden. Peter himself denied it (Read Acts 10:25-26; Revelation 19:10; 22:9) . Shouldn’t we abolish traditions that are against Biblical teaching? What do you think?

Now, about the papacy, the term “vicar” comes from the Latin word vicarius, which means “instead of.” In the Catholic Church, the vicar is the representative of a higher-ranking official, with all of the same authority and power that that official has. Calling the pope the “Vicar of Christ” implies that he has the same power and authority that Christ had over the church.

Now my question is, why would there be a need for a vicar if Jesus is already there? “Now there have been many of those priests, since death prevented them from continuing in office; but because Jesus lives forever, He has a permanent priesthood. Therefore, He is able to save completely those who come to God through Him, because He always lives to intercede for them” (Hebrews 7:23-25). Btw, I’m only looking for answers, I’m not saying anyone’s wrong. I’m currently collecting information, more like an interview to some Christian denominations on what they would say about a certain topic. Peace. 🙂
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Had you started with this post…
Notice the thoughtful answers you are now getting, whether you agree with them or not. 👍

Jon
 
Lexzar said:
Shouldn’t we abolish traditions that are against Biblical teaching? What do you think?
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Yes. The bible though also says that there are some traditions we should keep. These are not all found in the bible.
 
JonNC said:
Had you started with this post…
Notice the thoughtful answers you are now getting, whether you agree with them or not. 👍

Jon
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Thank you for your answers, I’ll be asking another one later. :blessyou:
 
Lexzar said:
Are any of those Biblical? Prove it. Thx. :dancing:
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I hope that you are not Iglesia ni Cristo or SDA. Tough to have an actual dialog with a such a person.

Isaiah 52:7
How beautiful on the mountains are the feet of those who bring good news, who proclaim peace, who bring good tidings, who proclaim salvation, who say to Zion, “Your God reigns!”

Nahum 1:15
Look, there on the mountains,** the feet of one who brings good news**, who proclaims peace! Celebrate your festivals, Judah, and fulfill your vows. No more will the wicked invade you; they will be completely destroyed.

Romans 10:15
And how can anyone preach unless they are sent? As it is written: “How beautiful are the feet of those who bring good news!”

Though you disagree, the Pope’s feet carry the good news of Christ. It is also appropraite to kiss the hands of Priests, as those hands bear our Lord Jesus Christ to us in the Holy Eucharist, which you probably also disagree with.

Yet, God alone is worshipped.
 
OP, so far you have not shown us any traditions (especially those not only in current use, but taught as ‘good’ and 'binding on the faithful) in the Catholic Church which contradict the Bible. . .especially when one looks at the Bible as a whole.

Let’s take for example the verse where Jesus says "call no man father’.

Hmmm. I venture to say that your male parent is called your father . . .on your nice legal birth certficate and indeed in your home. So obviously Jesus wasn’t saying that we should never call a male parent a father.

So the tradition of calling another male a father --whether as a blood relative father, an adoptive father (St.Joseph is called Christ’s father several times), or a spiritual father (as St. Paul refers to himself and begs his followers to regard him AS SUCH) is NOT contradicted by the Bible passage, “Call no man father”. . .right?

One must be very careful to understand the Bible was not written by 21st century people who had a 21st century outlook and were writing a ‘how-to’ manual. That is not what the Bible is. So in using it as the wonderful, inerrent, God-breathed word that it is, we have to be careful to use it correctly.

A saw is a wonderful tool --but not when you use it as a hammer, and vice versa. The Bible is a wonderful tool but it too must be used correctly.
 
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