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tgGodsway
Guest
Reuben, all this proves is that you got a confused Protestant to go CC. So what. By the way, the early church did teach new birth. Ironically we find it in Peter’s teachings. Add them to John’s and there you go. We
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Questions about when people get "saved"
- Thread starter Tis_Bearself
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tgGodsway
Guest
Uhh… no again MT… I am not saying that.Now your back to arguing that John’s Gospel is the only one that speaks of eternal life
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tgGodsway
Guest
No again. I’m not saying that. You are good at projecting onto me what you say I believe.So no one knew the truth until John wrote some 60 years after the Resurrection? Matthew, Mark and Luke are of no benefit in figuring out salvation. Seriously?
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guanophore
Guest
Yes, for the Apostles, and up until the time of the Anabaptists, “belief” was expressed in becoming baptized “calling upon the name of the Lord” (reciting the Creed)."And he (the Jailer) took them, (Paul and Silas) the same hour of the night and washed their stripes. And IMMEDIATELY he and all his family were baptized.
If I wanted to argue from the standpoint of the literalness of this verse, I could say that the Jailer and his family were not water baptized at all, seeing that the passage doesn’t literally say so. Nor does it give any detail about how they were baptized. I could argue from a 1st. Cor. 12:13 point of view here that “by one Spirit we are all baptized into one body…”
But honestly I don’t know. What I do know is that Paul answered the man’s question about what it takes to get saved in verse 31. “believe” and in verse 34 the bible says the Jailer and his family met those qualifications. “… having believed in God with all his household.”
Again, Paul and Silas shared this one divine condition on eternal salvation with the gospel of John which is to “believe” Jesus is the Christ.
As 3000 were baptized on Pentecost, so all those who professed faith in Christ were baptized with water.
It helps to look at how the early Christians understood the meaning of the passage. The Apostles and their disciples never separated saving faith from water baptism.
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tgGodsway
Guest
Well the John 10:27 passage you sighted is a figure of speech. The John 6:54 verse is not.
The John 6 passage where I got the verse is in a larger context. Verse 47 sums up the entire narrative of manna from heaven.
Jesus said, in verse 27, Do not work for the food that perishes, (physical food) but for the food that endures to eternal life which the Son of Man will give to you, …" v28 Then they said to him, 'what must we do to be doing the WORKS of God?.. Jesus answered them, "This is the WORK of God, that you BELEIVE IN HIM whom he has sent.
In verses 32 and following Jesus uses this “manna” figure of speech to drive home only one point: to believe! By verse 35 he says, " I am the bread of life, whoever comes to me shall not hunger (spiritually) and whoever BELIEVES in me shall not thirst, (spiritually.) v36, But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not BELIEVE. … (notice that to believe was His objective.)
v40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son (spiritually) and BELIEVES in Him, should have ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up on the last day.
The Jews grumbled about him because he said, " I Am the BREAD that came down from heaven."…
Notice that the Jews stumbled over this metaphor of bread at this point. … v47 Truly truly I say to you, whoever BELIEVES has eternal life. v48 I am the bread of life. (figuratively, not literally. ) … v50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it, (spiritually) AND NOT DIE.
V51 I AM the living bread (not literally) that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread (spiritually) He will LIVE FOREVER.
The Jews, again, at this point, disputed among themselves saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? They were thinking that Jesus was speaking literally and physically much like the CC. He never was!
His message was always spiritual. But they were not spiritual people and their hardened hearts kept them from becoming spiritual. Jesus blew their minds at this point when He said,
“I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man an drink his blood, you have not life in you.”
“Whoever feeds on my flesh, (spiritually) and drinks my blood (spiritually) has ETERNAL LIFE…” To do this physically and literally they would have had to become cannibals, or, invent some kind of miracle about Christ becoming physical bread to eat, or how the Spirit of Christ would enter the bread, as in the case of the CC.
The object lesson was something they should have picked up on, manna from heaven to eat. In Moses day, the manna was literal and physical. But in the Day of Christ, it was suppose to be a spiritual feeding, not literal. If we will spiritually feed on Christ, we will have eternal life. This was the consistent message of John 6. But it doesn’t really matter MT
If I were to give you other bible writers who also talk about BELIEVING in Jesus for eternal life, would that make any difference to you MT. … I don’t think it would.
The John 6 passage where I got the verse is in a larger context. Verse 47 sums up the entire narrative of manna from heaven.
Jesus said, in verse 27, Do not work for the food that perishes, (physical food) but for the food that endures to eternal life which the Son of Man will give to you, …" v28 Then they said to him, 'what must we do to be doing the WORKS of God?.. Jesus answered them, "This is the WORK of God, that you BELEIVE IN HIM whom he has sent.
In verses 32 and following Jesus uses this “manna” figure of speech to drive home only one point: to believe! By verse 35 he says, " I am the bread of life, whoever comes to me shall not hunger (spiritually) and whoever BELIEVES in me shall not thirst, (spiritually.) v36, But I said to you that you have seen me and yet do not BELIEVE. … (notice that to believe was His objective.)
v40 For this is the will of my Father, that everyone who looks on the Son (spiritually) and BELIEVES in Him, should have ETERNAL LIFE, and I will raise him up on the last day.
The Jews grumbled about him because he said, " I Am the BREAD that came down from heaven."…
Notice that the Jews stumbled over this metaphor of bread at this point. … v47 Truly truly I say to you, whoever BELIEVES has eternal life. v48 I am the bread of life. (figuratively, not literally. ) … v50 This is the bread that comes down from heaven, so that one may eat of it, (spiritually) AND NOT DIE.
V51 I AM the living bread (not literally) that came down from heaven. If anyone eats of this bread (spiritually) He will LIVE FOREVER.
The Jews, again, at this point, disputed among themselves saying, How can this man give us his flesh to eat? They were thinking that Jesus was speaking literally and physically much like the CC. He never was!
His message was always spiritual. But they were not spiritual people and their hardened hearts kept them from becoming spiritual. Jesus blew their minds at this point when He said,
“I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man an drink his blood, you have not life in you.”
“Whoever feeds on my flesh, (spiritually) and drinks my blood (spiritually) has ETERNAL LIFE…” To do this physically and literally they would have had to become cannibals, or, invent some kind of miracle about Christ becoming physical bread to eat, or how the Spirit of Christ would enter the bread, as in the case of the CC.
The object lesson was something they should have picked up on, manna from heaven to eat. In Moses day, the manna was literal and physical. But in the Day of Christ, it was suppose to be a spiritual feeding, not literal. If we will spiritually feed on Christ, we will have eternal life. This was the consistent message of John 6. But it doesn’t really matter MT
If I were to give you other bible writers who also talk about BELIEVING in Jesus for eternal life, would that make any difference to you MT. … I don’t think it would.
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guanophore
Guest
Wow, that is a stretch that is new to me! How can you defend the position that John was Jesus “earthly pastor”?Jesus subjected Himself to His (earthly pastor) John the Baptist who took Him under the water, symbolizing a spiritual death, according to Rom. 6:3,4 (yet to be realized at the cross.) John then took Him up out of the water, symbolizing a resurrection, (yet to be realized three days after the cross,)
Where does scripture teach that Baptism “declares to others…” anything?Everyone who is in Christ should be baptized. Why do it? Because it declares to others that we too have died spiritually, and resurrected spiritually and now a voice from heaven has said, this is my beloved child…"
How is it that the Church had to go into hiding shortly after the early NT documents were written, and baptisms as well as other gatherings had to be held in secret, in catacombs, or out in the wilderness? How were these secret gatherings “declarations to others”? People were baptized in secret because it was illegal!
Catholics will agree with you on this point. God saves whoever He wants, however He likes. He has commanded us to express our saving faith through the sacrament of baptism, which unites us with the Body of Christ, and to His death and resurrection. Saving faith is obedient faith, and saving faith includes baptism.But notice the Mark 16:16 passage again,
“he who believes and is baptized will be saved; but he who does not believe will be condemned.”
Notice when Jesus reverses His logic by saying "he who does not believe will be condemned, He failed to reverse the consequences of not being water baptized.
It should read like this, He who believes and is baptized will be saved, but he who does not believe and is not water baptized will be condemned."
Every word is deliberate. Logic concludes that
He went and made proclamation to the spirits now in prison, 20who once were disobedient, when the patience of God kept waiting in the days of Noah, during the construction of the ark, in which a few, that is, eight persons, were brought safely through the water. 21Corresponding to that, baptism now saves you—not the removal of dirt from the flesh, but an appeal to God for a good conscience—through the resurrection of Jesus Christ, I Pet. 3
Clearly Peter is referring to passing through water. We know there is nothing in the water itself that can appeal to God for a “good conscience”. This cleansing only happens by the power of the Holy Spirit.
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guanophore
Guest
We understand the passage in context. Jesus and the Apostles never separated the water from the Spirit.“I assure you; Anyone who BELIEVES has eternal life.” Jn. 6:47.
Was John simply not paying attention with his repetitious message to just believe? Or was he driving home a point that you simply hate.
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MT1926
Guest
Sorry my answer is still no.Do you believe MT, every child of God called to Eternal Life, at their Initial Justification receives God’s special grace His Gift of Final Perseverance which is an Eternal Protection of their Eternal Life, so they are Once Saved Always Saved?
The reason I answer no is because of the way you word the question. You say…
I say no because every child of God is not automatically called to eternal life.I believe every child of God called to Eternal Life
You seem to respect Jimmy Akin, I’m quoting from his article: Are All True Christians Predestined to Persevere?
Here there have historically been two usages. On the one hand, one can be can be predestined to come to God and become a true Christian. On the other hand, a true Christian can be predestined to stay with God and persevere to the end of life. These two uses have historically been known as predestination to grace and predestination to glory. One is predestined to grace if one is predestined to enter the graces of the Christian life, and one is predestined to glory if one is predestined to enter the glory of heaven…Thus in Ephesians 1:3-12 we have a reference to predestination to grace and in Romans 8:28-30 we have a reference to predestination to glory. So my opponent’s claim that there is no exegetical distinction between being predestined to grace and predestined to glory goes up in smoke. It is just linguistically false. The word “predestined” is used in Scripture for both the entrance into the Christan life and entrance into heaven.
Yes and no. Yes for the ones predestined to glory, no for the ones predestined to grace.at their Initial Justification receives God’s special grace His Gift of Final Perseverance which is an Eternal Protection of their Eternal Life
As Catholics we believe this occurs at Baptism. Do you honestly believe every Baptized Catholic is automatically given the grace of Final Perseverance and Eternal Protection?
Back to the main reason I do not agree, there is no way you can know if you were predestined to Grace or predestined to Glory.so they are Once Saved Always Saved.
This was the answer I should have given you 8 months ago. All of the back and forth we had on how you could say you knew was basically true, you did know, but now that I read what Jimmy wrote you only know that you are predestined to grace in the Christian life. You have no way of knowing that you are predestined for glory.
Read the article hopefully it will help as much as the anathema article did.
God Bless
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MT1926
Guest
So you agree then that Jesus also says one must keep the commandments to have eternal life? Mt 19:16Uhh… no again MT… I am not saying that.
You agree, you can’t love money more than God to have eternal life? Mt 19:23
You agree you have to follow Jesus until the day you die to have eternal life? Mt 19:29
You agree you have to love neighbor to inherent eternal life? Mt 25
etc…
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MonteRCMS
Guest
You will find out whether you are “saved” after you die.
So, pray to Jesus and be nice to His Mother [He listens to her.].
So, pray to Jesus and be nice to His Mother [He listens to her.].
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MT1926
Guest
I agree John 10:27 is a metaphor. What’s your point? Are you saying Jesus doesn’t teach us anything ESSENTIAL when he uses metaphor?Well the John 10:27 passage you sighted is a figure of speech.
Let’s break this verse down.
The Sheep, that’s us, hears the Shepherd’s Voice, that’s Jesus.
On a side note if I didn’t mention it earlier I love when Jesus talks about sheep, because we raise sheep, so I get a visual picture of what He is speaking of.
Anyway fun fact…Sheep are capable of telling the difference between the voice of the Shepherd and the voice of a thief and a robber (see verse 1).
So when they hear the Shepherds voice they BELIEVE that this is their one true Shepherd, and not a robber. Now this tells us that the ones who Believe are the ones Jesus will give ETERNAL LIFE. I’m sure you would agree with that?
But guess what Jesus also says they FOLLOW ME.
So not only do we have to believe we have to follow Jesus as well in order to be given eteranal life.
Guess what happens if a sheep doesn’t continually follow the Shepherd, all the days of their life?
Fun Fact… Well sheep tend to either follow the Shepherd or they follow their stomachs.
If they always follow the Shepherd they are kept safe (eternal life) it they follow their stomachs they tend to wander away from the flock and get eaten by predators (eternal damnation).
Most people back then knew all about raising sheep. They would have know exactly what Jesus message was with this metaphor.
Hope this helps
God Bless
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MT1926
Guest
The John 6:54 verse is not.
Totally agree, this is not a figure of speech, Jesus was being absolutely literal in this verse.“Truly, truly, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of man and drink his blood, you have no life in you; 54 he who eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day.
Glad we agree on something.
God Bless
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Gorgias
Guest
Do you see the establishment of the doctrine of “essential doctrine and non-essential doctrine” anywhere in the Scriptures?My point was that Paul may have treated the timing of the resurrection as an essential doctrine.
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tgGodsway
Guest
This is cute MT but again, you assume a lot. When the sheep hear the voice of their Shepherd, the reason why they can hear it, is because they are the Shepherd’s sheep. They are already the property of their Shepherd. Eternal life is not treated as a journey to be received at the end of the road. Jesus always spoke of eternal life in the present tense, in the here and now when you “believe.”But guess what Jesus also says they FOLLOW ME.
So not only do we have to believe we have to follow Jesus as well in order to be given eteranal life.
Guess what happens if a sheep doesn’t continually follow the Shepherd, all the days of their life?
Fun Fact… Well sheep tend to either follow the Shepherd or they follow their stomachs.
If they always follow the Shepherd they are kept safe (eternal life) it they follow their stomachs they tend to wander away from the flock and get eaten by predators (eternal damnation).
The pronouncement of Justification over our life is treated as an ACT of the judge, not a process based on whether or not we will continue to follow. Judges do not continually slam their gavel. Nor do they place us on a “pending” bases to be judged. As I’ve said on this site before, there is no future judgment over sin found in the N.T. All judgments that are found, are judgments with the sole purpose of determining what kind of reward, or relinquishment of reward you will have. The great white throne judgment is for the lost who will be evaluated to determine what kind of punishment they will receive. They will not be standing there to determine whether or not they belong there. Both Judgments are based solely on WORKS, not grace at all.
A Shepherd will from time to time, go after HIS lost sheep. God’s sheep do get lost, but just because they do, does not mean they are no longer HIS sheep.
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tgGodsway
Guest
On what biblical bases do you come to this conclusion?You will find out whether you are “saved” after you die.
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MonteRCMS
Guest
Matthew 25:31-46GOD’S WORD Translation (GW)
Jesus Will Judge the World
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, my Father has blessed you! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me into your home. 36 I needed clothes, and you gave me something to wear. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’
37 “Then the people who have God’s approval will reply to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you or see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you as a stranger and take you into our homes or see you in need of clothes and give you something to wear? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 “The king will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you did for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you did for me.’
41 “Then the king will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me! God has cursed you! Go into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels! 42 I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me into your homes. I needed clothes, and you didn’t give me anything to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t take care of me.’
44 “They, too, will ask, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or as a stranger or in need of clothes or sick or in prison and didn’t help you?’
45 “He will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you failed to do for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do for me.’
46 “These people will go away into eternal punishment, but those with God’s approval will go into eternal life.”
Jesus Will Judge the World
31 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory and all his angels are with him, he will sit on his glorious throne. 32 The people of every nation will be gathered in front of him. He will separate them as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will put the sheep on his right but the goats on his left.
34 “Then the king will say to those on his right, ‘Come, my Father has blessed you! Inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the creation of the world. 35 I was hungry, and you gave me something to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me something to drink. I was a stranger, and you took me into your home. 36 I needed clothes, and you gave me something to wear. I was sick, and you took care of me. I was in prison, and you visited me.’
37 “Then the people who have God’s approval will reply to him, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you or see you thirsty and give you something to drink? 38 When did we see you as a stranger and take you into our homes or see you in need of clothes and give you something to wear? 39 When did we see you sick or in prison and visit you?’
40 “The king will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you did for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you did for me.’
41 “Then the king will say to those on his left, ‘Get away from me! God has cursed you! Go into everlasting fire that was prepared for the devil and his angels! 42 I was hungry, and you gave me nothing to eat. I was thirsty, and you gave me nothing to drink. 43 I was a stranger, and you didn’t take me into your homes. I needed clothes, and you didn’t give me anything to wear. I was sick and in prison, and you didn’t take care of me.’
44 “They, too, will ask, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or as a stranger or in need of clothes or sick or in prison and didn’t help you?’
45 “He will answer them, ‘I can guarantee this truth: Whatever you failed to do for one of my brothers or sisters, no matter how unimportant they seemed, you failed to do for me.’
46 “These people will go away into eternal punishment, but those with God’s approval will go into eternal life.”
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MT1926
Guest
I agree what do you believe I assumed?This is cute MT but again, you assume a lot.
Agreed . Are you claiming it is not possible for a sheep to run away from the Shepherd?They are already the property of their Shepherd.
Totally agree. But you refuse to accept…Jesus always spoke of eternal life in the present tense…
The present tense applies to the coming, the following, and the believing. Making exactly what I said spot on. Not only do we have to believe we have to follow (continuously believe) in order to inherit eternal life.When Jesus describes the one who comes to him and who believes in him [3:16, 5:24, 6:35, 37, 40, 47, etc.], he uses the present tense to describe this coming, believing, or, in other passages, hearing or seeing. The present tense refers to a continuous, on-going action. The Greek contrasts this kind of action against the aorist tense, which is a point action, a single action in time that is not on-going. . . . The wonderful promises that are provided by Christ are not for those who do not truly and continuously believe. The faith that saves is a living faith, a faith that always looks to Christ as Lord and Savior.”
The above summary came from James White’s book “Drawn by the Father”. Last I checked JW is of the reformed like you.
The problem with JW is he only applies these rules to the scripture verses that fit his theology, when I verse is contrary to his beliefs he goes on some illogical rant why the present tense doesn’t really apply to that verse.
Here’s another interpretation of John 10:28
Dale Moody is a Baptist theologian. This interpretation is from his systematic theology, The Word of Truth.“John 10:28 is frequently used as a security blanket by those who ignore many of the New Testament warnings about going back or falling away, but a literal translation of John 10:27-28 . . . hardly needs explanation . . . ‘My sheep keep on hearing my voice, and I keep on knowing them, and they keep on following me: and I keep on giving them eternal life, and they shall never perish, and no one shall snatch them out of my hand.’ Some read the passage as if it says: ‘My sheep heard my voice, and I knew them, and they followed me, and I gave to them eternal life.’ [But] The verbs are present linear, indicating continuous action by the sheep and by the Shepherd, not the punctiliar fallacy of the past tense.” (Moody, 357)
Never said they were no longer God’s sheep. Just said they can wonder off (fall away) and suffer eternal damnation (Hell) because they were attacked by predators (Adultery, Lust, fornication, pornography, greed, murder, hatred, etc…)A Shepherd will from time to time, go after HIS lost sheep. God’s sheep do get lost, but just because they do, does not mean they are no longer HIS sheep.
God’s sheep or not, their is nothing in the Bible that claims you can do all of those things and still be saved.
God Bless
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tgGodsway
Guest
I don’t think there was anything intentional by the Apostles. but you can piece together the things they fought over aggressively, For example, the Apostle Paul aggressively taught on the resurrection of Christ as an essential doctrine in 1st. Cor. 15. Luke, in conjunction, recorded how others preached the resurrection in the book of Acts.
However, you may not find any direct narrative to the “must believe” essentials in the teachings of women who cover their head as a sign of submission. It was taught to address a specific issue in the Corinthian Church, but not essential to the overall body or to fellowship in the body.
But the question is what is essential to receiving the Gift of eternal life?.. What are the conditions? … I argue that there is one common denominator found in a variety of contexts, they all say we must “believe” Jesus is the Christ in order to have eternal life.
Does water baptism play a part as a condition for eternal life?.. if it did, we wound find it consistently in the SUM of the equation. In other words, all bible authors would include it when they talk about salvation. They don’t. We find the word “baptized” in one particular passage in connection with “to believe,” which results in a deliverance. Mk16:16 But even this passage is obscure and sets no pattern.
However, you may not find any direct narrative to the “must believe” essentials in the teachings of women who cover their head as a sign of submission. It was taught to address a specific issue in the Corinthian Church, but not essential to the overall body or to fellowship in the body.
But the question is what is essential to receiving the Gift of eternal life?.. What are the conditions? … I argue that there is one common denominator found in a variety of contexts, they all say we must “believe” Jesus is the Christ in order to have eternal life.
Does water baptism play a part as a condition for eternal life?.. if it did, we wound find it consistently in the SUM of the equation. In other words, all bible authors would include it when they talk about salvation. They don’t. We find the word “baptized” in one particular passage in connection with “to believe,” which results in a deliverance. Mk16:16 But even this passage is obscure and sets no pattern.
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tgGodsway
Guest
uhhh… no again MT… but I understand why you think that way. You do not see eternal life as a free gift. You see it as an earned gift, as you just stated here, “… there is nothing in the bible that claims you can DO ALL those things and still be saved.” As if DOING bad things gets you to hell, while DOING good things gets you to heaven.God’s sheep or not, their is nothing in the Bible that claims you can do all of those things and still be saved
I read your Dale Moody commentary and not surprised. Many so-called protestants have been tweaking John 10:27,28 for years, along with some modern translations who do shameful disservice to the passage.
For this I return to the KJV who did not defile the passage like certain others.
"My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me. v28 and I give to them eternal life; and they shall never perish, neither shall any man pluck them out of my hand. "
Jesus’ sheep hear his voice, (in contrast to those who do not because they are not His sheep. see. (Jn. 10:26) … and they follow Me, (this suggest faith expressed much like Jn. 5:24 in the same order.) v28 and I give to them eternal life.
(The words I GIVE, can also be translated I AM GIVING, however, to do so without cherry picking which verses with similar sentence structure should be, and which shouldn’t, will cause you more trouble than you will bargain for, but go ahead.) As far as I can tell, the only translation willing to translate it “I am giving” is the Century translation. Perhaps you know of one.
no… I GIVE is in the present tense here. KJ was correct to translate it this way along with a host of other translators.
I give them eternal life and they shall NEVER perish…"
If a lost sheep were to perish, then the only conclusion is that they were NOT really His sheep. Because Jesus said His sheep NEVER perish.
We will not find lost sheep in hell. Why? In the metaphor, the sheep belong to Jesus and He won’t allow His family members to be found there.
But the giving of eternal life at the end of life itself is not suggested anywhere in this passage. To the contrary. Eternal life is given and received when His sheep hear his voice (in the moment) and follow in terms of expressing their faith. Consider the order of events paralleled in Jn. 5:24,
Most assuredly, I say to you, he who hears my word and believes in Him who sent Me has everlasting life, and shall not come into judgment, but has passed from death into life."
- The hearing of Christ word, (2) faith expressed =follow (3) the possession of eternal life (4) a guarantee against judgment (sin judgment) (5) a secure situation in that we have passed from death to life.
This whole idea of how eternal life is “pending” to see the final outcome of one’s response in good works, is a heresy and has nothing to do with a free gift.
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tgGodsway
Guest
the Judgment of the Nations should not be confused with the Judgment seat of Christ … the Nations will gather together as nations and will be judged according to their works.
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