Questions for Catholics

[Odell]

these are some questions that I have seen. there real quick questions that I would like real quick answers to. They are anti Catholic questions than many people may run into I need help comeing up with a quick responce to each question for my notes. Kind of like John Martinoni’s 2 min apologetics. But these are more questions that he does not cover.

anyway please answer all the questions if you are going to respond I dont want to search all over the thread and only get some of the quesitons answered. Also if any Protestant has an issue with someones answers feel free to start a thread on the particular questons dont debate on this thred please all I want is quick answers to these quick questions

I think this will be good and could branch off into some good threads.

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations
2. No new testament writer quoted from any of the apocyphal books as Scripture or gave them the slightest authority as inspired books
3. bible alone Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees this Neglecting the commandment of God you hols to the traditions of men (Mk 7:8)
4. When Paul list the authority structure in the early Church in (1cor12:28) there is not mention of a pope"God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers"
5. Paul corrects Peter in (Gal 2:11-14) If Peter had been a supreme pontiff during this time Paul would have been out of order. Pauls correction shows Peter was not considered suprem
6. Scripture indicates that the church is built on the foundation of the prohets and apostles eph 2:20. Once a foundation is built no further foundation is needed and theref ore there is no need for apostolic successors
7. in view of the tremendous attention paid to Mary in the Catholic church she is metion very few times in the new testament
8. Jesus never exalted his mother as Catholic do. He is often seen downplaying her like calling her woman instead of mother
9. Jeus unique qualificaton as Redeemer is precisely what disqualifies Mary from being co redeemer she her self need a redeemer(Lk 1:48)
10. Mary was the mother of Jesus the man not his devine nature of God.
11. God looks at us through the Lord Jesus Christ he sees us in all pure white holiness of his son. he does not see our sins
12. Good works are a by product of salvation. We do works not to get salvation but because we have already gotten it.
13. Leviticus 3:17 says drinking blood is forbidden. In view of the scriptural teaching that drinking blood is forbidden do you think the deciples schooled in the commandments would have understood Jesus to be instructing them to go directly against the commandments?
14. If The Church al over the world holds mass wouldnt jesus human body have to be everywhere present? Doesnt scripture teach that only christ divine nature not his human nature is everywher present. Christ body is in heaven (Rev 1:13-16)
15. How can Jesus statement “It is finished” (Jn 19:30) be reconciled with the continual re-presenting of Christ sacrifice in the Mass?
16. Instead of belivers having the full assurance of coplete forgivness of sins through the once for all sacrifice the Mass gives a constant reminder of sins and remaining guilt to be atoned for week after week
17. The bible teaches that all sins not just mortal sins cause spiritual death or spiritual seperation from God
18. the apostles proclaimed Gods forgivness of sin based on belief in Christ as savior(Atcs 5:31) They merly announced what heaven already announced.

 

[Margita]

these are some questions that I have seen.I think this will be good and could branch off into some good threads.

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations

What is your question here?

1. No new testament writer quoted from any of the apocyphal books as Scripture or gave them the slightest authority as inspired books

What is your question here?

1. bible alone Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees this Neglecting the commandment of God you hols to the traditions of men (Mk 7:8)
   Ditto. ???
2. When Paul list the authority structure in the early Church in (1cor12:28) there is not mention of a pope"God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers"
   So what would you like to know?
3. Paul corrects Peter in (Gal 2:11-14) If Peter had been a supreme pontiff during this time Paul would have been out of order. Pauls correction shows Peter was not considered suprem
   Ergo, you want to know if…?
4. Scripture indicates that the church is built on the foundation of the prohets and apostles eph 2:20. Once a foundation is built no further foundation is needed and theref ore there is no need for apostolic successors

So you want to know what?
7) in view of the tremendous attention paid to Mary in the Catholic church she is metion very few times in the new testament
YOur question?

1. Jesus never exalted his mother as Catholic do. He is often seen downplaying her like calling her woman instead of mother
   I don’t think this is downplaying, but you’d better look into the original Greek. But again, what is your question?
2. Jeus unique qualificaton as Redeemer is precisely what disqualifies Mary from being co redeemer she her self need a redeemer(Lk 1:48)
   Who said she didn’t? But again, I cannot see a question.
3. Mary was the mother of Jesus the man not his devine nature of God.
4. God looks at us through the Lord Jesus Christ he sees us in all pure white holiness of his son. he does not see our sins
   this is a statement, not a question
5. Good works are a by product of salvation. We do works not to get salvation but because we have already gotten it.
   an old argument, but do you want an answer or a counter-argument?
6. Leviticus 3:17 says drinking blood is forbidden. In view of the scriptural teaching that drinking blood is forbidden do you think the deciples schooled in the commandments would have understood Jesus to be instructing them to go directly against the commandments?
   It wouldn’t have been the first time See healing on the Sabbath, eating with sinners, forgiving sin etc.
7. If The Church al over the world holds mass wouldnt jesus human body have to be everywhere present? Doesnt scripture teach that only christ divine nature not his human nature is everywher present. Christ body is in heaven (Rev 1:13-16)
   If you are referring to the mystery of the Eucharist, it is called mystery for a reason.
8. How can Jesus statement “It is finished” (Jn 19:30) be reconciled with the continual re-presenting of Christ sacrifice in the Mass?
   Mass would not be possible if Jesus had not finished His work. That we are able to re-present His sacrifice is the result of the fact that He consummated our salvation.
9. Instead of belivers having the full assurance of coplete forgivness of sins through the once for all sacrifice the Mass gives a constant reminder of sins and remaining guilt to be atoned for week after week
   Christ himself told people to be watchful and vigilant, and to repent. There is a continual need for repentance. See also the letters of Saint Paul.
10. The bible teaches that all sins not just mortal sins cause spiritual death or spiritual seperation from God
    So you want to know…?
    Plus: it would be helpful if you could cite the exact passage.
11. the apostles proclaimed Gods forgivness of sin based on belief in Christ as savior(Atcs 5:31) They merly announced what heaven already announced.

They were doing their job. But again, what is not clear here for you?

You see, you have put here statements but I don’t know what your “quick questions” are.

Personally, I think it is disrespectful to put things of such enormous significance and depth in the form of “quick questions.” But if you must, at least put them in obvious and unmistakable question form.

 

[JoeyWarren]

The statements are questions.

Actually he is asking for counter statements to the given statements.

Each one of the 18 are a thread unto itself.

So he should have started 18 new threads.

 

[El_camino]

these are some questions that I have seen. there real quick questions that I would like real quick answers to. They are anti Catholic questions than many people may run into I need help comeing up with a quick responce to each question for my notes. Kind of like John Martinoni’s 2 min apologetics. But these are more questions that he does not cover.

anyway please answer all the questions if you are going to respond I dont want to search all over the thread and only get some of the quesitons answered. Also if any Protestant has an issue with someones answers feel free to start a thread on the particular questons dont debate on this thred please all I want is quick answers to these quick questions

I think this will be good and could branch off into some good threads.

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations

WRONG! The book of wisdom has prophecy and speaks of JESUS in even CLEARER manner than any other book in the Old Testament. This was, in fact, one of the main reasons why the Jews in Jamnia (100 A.D.), wanted to get rid of all the deuterocanonicals. In addition, since when prophecy is necessary to confirm divine inspiration?. Many books in the bible have no prophecy and however they are considered inspired by all Christians without much controversy.

 

[JoeyWarren]

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations

SOME OF THE OTHER OLD TESTAMENT BOOKS DON’T CONTAIN PREDICTIVE PROPHECYS EITHER

1. No new testament writer quoted from any of the apocyphal books as Scripture or gave them the slightest authority as inspired books

FALSE STATEMENT. THERE ARE MANY QUOTES EITHER DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY SEE scripturecatholic.com/deuterocanon.html

1. bible alone Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees this Neglecting the commandment of God you hols to the traditions of men (Mk 7:8)

JESUS REBUKED CORRUPT TRADITION. HE DID NOT REBUKE ALL TRADITION. JESUS TALKS ABOUT THE CHAIR OF MOSES THAT THE PHARISEES SPEAK FROM. JESUS TELLS THE PEOPLE TO DO WHATEVER THEY SAY BECAUSE THEY SIT ON THE CHAIR OF MOSES. FIND A PLACE IN THE OLD TESTAMENT WHERE A CHAIR OF MOSES IS ESTABLISHED. THE WRITER OF THE GOSPELS APPEALS TO THE ORAL TRADITION OF THE PROPHETS THAT SAID THE MESSIAH WOULD BE A NAZARENE. TRY TO FIND IN THE OLD TESTAMENT WHERE A REFERENCE TO THE MESSSIAH BEING A NAZARENE IS THE MESSIAH

1. When Paul list the authority structure in the early Church in (1cor12:28) there is not mention of a pope"God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers"

ACTUALLY THE BIBLE DOES USE THE WORD OF POPE. EXCEPT YOU WILL NOT SEE IN THE FORM OF POPE. POPE IS THE ITALIAN DERIVATIVE OF FATHER. THE APOSTLES ARE THE FIRST FATHERS OF THE EARLY CHURCH. PAUL REFERS TO HIMSELF AS FATHER IN ONE OF HIS EPISTLES.

1. Paul corrects Peter in (Gal 2:11-14) If Peter had been a supreme pontiff during this time Paul would have been out of order. Pauls correction shows Peter was not considered supreme

**But when Cephas was come to Antioch, I withstood him to the face, because he was to be blamed. OUR SENATORS WITHSTOOD THE PRESIDENT ON A NUMBER OF OCCASSIONS, DOES THIS DIMINISH THE PRESIDENTS POSITION. NO! **

 

[Pixie_Dust]

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations

Several OT books do not contain predictive prophecy. Some things are prefigured in them, but they were not predictive at the time - the Passover, for instance. The Song of Songs/Solomon does not contain predictive prophecy.

1. No new testament writer quoted from any of the apocyphal books as Scripture or gave them the slightest authority as inspired books

Every time a NT writer quoted Scripture, he used the Septuagint, which did contain the deuterocanon. There is also a mention of the Festival of Lights (Hannukah) in John, which is found in one of the Maccabees.

1. bible alone Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees this Neglecting the commandment of God you hols to the traditions of men (Mk 7:8)

Non-Catholics have plenty of their own traditions that aren’t inherently Scriptural. Wednesday night Bible studies, altar calls, their church services…Also, Paul exhorts Timothy and others to hold fast to the traditions he gave them.

1. When Paul list the authority structure in the early Church in (1cor12:28) there is not mention of a pope"God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers"

Hmm, perhaps because the first Pope was ALSO an apostle?

1. Paul corrects Peter in (Gal 2:11-14) If Peter had been a supreme pontiff during this time Paul would have been out of order. Pauls correction shows Peter was not considered supreme

No, it shows that Peter was human. Being the Pope doesn’t mean one is perfectly perfect in all matters. Infallibility is only in matters of teaching on faith and morals.

1. Scripture indicates that the church is built on the foundation of the prohets and apostles eph 2:20. Once a foundation is built no further foundation is needed and theref ore there is no need for apostolic successors

So once a foundation is laid for a building, that’s all we need. No walls, doors, windows or (Heaven forbid) plumbing?

1. in view of the tremendous attention paid to Mary in the Catholic church she is metion very few times in the new testament

In a typical Mass, there really isn’t much attention paid to her. I think she’s mentioned twice, if I recall correctly. Once in the Creed, stating that Jesus was born of the Virgin Mary, and then later we ask her and all the saints to pray for us. I’d hardly call that tremendous attention.

1. Jesus never exalted his mother as Catholic do. He is often seen downplaying her like calling her woman instead of mother

I believe the Greek here (I assume we’re talking about John 2, the wedding at Cana?) is something along the lines of “My dearest, darling woman.”

To be continued…

 

[Pixie_Dust]

1. Jeus unique qualificaton as Redeemer is precisely what disqualifies Mary from being co redeemer she her self need a redeemer(Lk 1:48)

She said “Yes” to God. If Mary had said “No” then we wouldn’t have Jesus.

1. Mary was the mother of Jesus the man not his devine nature of God.

My children have some of their father’s characteristics. Does that mean I’m only partially their mother?

1. God looks at us through the Lord Jesus Christ he sees us in all pure white holiness of his son. he does not see our sins

I’d like a scripture reference for this please.

1. Good works are a by product of salvation. We do works not to get salvation but because we have already gotten it.

Then Jesus was preaching heresy when He said we’d be judged by our works.

1. Leviticus 3:17 says drinking blood is forbidden. In view of the scriptural teaching that drinking blood is forbidden do you think the deciples schooled in the commandments would have understood Jesus to be instructing them to go directly against the commandments?

Well, why do you think so many of his disciples quit following him after that?

1. If The Church al over the world holds mass wouldnt jesus human body have to be everywhere present? Doesnt scripture teach that only christ divine nature not his human nature is everywher present. Christ body is in heaven (Rev 1:13-16)

And it is his glorified Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity made present at every Mass, not his human body.

1. How can Jesus statement “It is finished” (Jn 19:30) be reconciled with the continual re-presenting of Christ sacrifice in the Mass?

He said, “Do this in remembrance of Me.”

1. Instead of belivers having the full assurance of coplete forgivness of sins through the once for all sacrifice the Mass gives a constant reminder of sins and remaining guilt to be atoned for week after week

I don’t know about you, but I tend to sin week after week.

1. The bible teaches that all sins not just mortal sins cause spiritual death or spiritual seperation from God

1 John 5:16-17

1. the apostles proclaimed Gods forgivness of sin based on belief in Christ as savior(Atcs 5:31) They merly announced what heaven already announced.
   John 20:21-23

 

[jmcrae]

these are some questions that I have seen. there real quick questions that I would like real quick answers to. They are anti Catholic questions than many people may run into I need help comeing up with a quick responce to each question for my notes. Kind of like John Martinoni’s 2 min apologetics. But these are more questions that he does not cover.

anyway please answer all the questions if you are going to respond I dont want to search all over the thread and only get some of the quesitons answered. Also if any Protestant has an issue with someones answers feel free to start a thread on the particular questons dont debate on this thred please all I want is quick answers to these quick questions

I’ll do my best, here.

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations

Neither do some of the books that are included in the Palestinian canon, such as Esther and Ruth.

1. No new testament writer quoted from any of the apocyphal books as Scripture or gave them the slightest authority as inspired books

There are also many books from the Palestinian canon that are not quoted in the New Testament - and there are quotes in the New Testament from such books as The Book of Enoch, which are not included in either canon.

1. bible alone Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees this Neglecting the commandment of God you hols to the traditions of men (Mk 7:8)

II Thessalonians 2:15 - hold fast to the traditions of the Apostles.

1. When Paul list the authority structure in the early Church in (1cor12:28) there is not mention of a pope"God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers"

The Pope and the Bishops in union with him are the successors to the Apostles.

1. Paul corrects Peter in (Gal 2:11-14) If Peter had been a supreme pontiff during this time Paul would have been out of order. Pauls correction shows Peter was not considered suprem

Quite the opposite, since St. Paul’s criticism of St. Peter was that his actions did not match his teachings. As a Pharisee, St. Paul was bound to point out to Peter that since his word as Pope is the commandment of God, therefore, it is a sin (even for the Pope himself, since the Pope is not above God’s law) to disobey the commandments of God that usher forth from his own mouth.

1. Scripture indicates that the church is built on the foundation of the prohets and apostles eph 2:20. Once a foundation is built no further foundation is needed and therefore there is no need for apostolic successors

Try taking the foundations out from under your house and see what happens. (Your house will fall down.)

1. in view of the tremendous attention paid to Mary in the Catholic church she is metion very few times in the new testament.

Even so, she is mentioned more often than at least eight of the twelve Apostles.

1. Jesus never exalted his mother as Catholic do. He is often seen downplaying her like calling her woman instead of mother

“Woman” being the name that Adam gave to Eve, Jesus is hereby signifying that Mary is the Second Eve.

1. Jeus unique qualificaton as Redeemer is precisely what disqualifies Mary from being co redeemer she her self need a redeemer(Lk 1:48)

We do not teach that Mary is a co-redeemer.

1. Mary was the mother of Jesus the man not his devine nature of God.

The Person who lived in Mary’s womb for nine months and who came forth from there on December 25th 4 BC in a little cave just outside of Bethlehem was both God and Man. Jesus did not acquire His divinity some time later - He was already the Second Person of the Trinity from eternity, and acquired His humanity in Mary’s womb at the moment of His conception.

1. God looks at us through the Lord Jesus Christ he sees us in all pure white holiness of his son. he does not see our sins.

The God of all truth cannot lie or deceive - not even (to) Himself.

1. Good works are a by product of salvation. We do works not to get salvation but because we have already gotten it.

Then why are they so hard to do? (How many people do you know who suddenly turn into Mother Teresa at the same moment that they come back down the aisle from an altar call? If what you say is true, then this should happen 100% of the time.)

(cont …)

 

[jmcrae]

(continued from above)

1. Leviticus 3:17 says drinking blood is forbidden. In view of the scriptural teaching that drinking blood is forbidden do you think the deciples schooled in the commandments would have understood Jesus to be instructing them to go directly against the commandments?

The commandment in Leviticus is against drinking animal blood, which causes us to have the attributes of animals. Christ’s blood causes us to gain the attributes of Christ.

1. If The Church al over the world holds mass wouldnt jesus human body have to be everywhere present?

This mystery is explained in the story of the loaves and fishes, which comes just before the Bread of Life discourse in John 6.

Doesn’t scripture teach that only christ divine nature not his human nature is everywhere present. Christ body is in heaven (Rev 1:13-16)

And where is Heaven? Heaven is not a physical place; it is a spiritual reality.

1. How can Jesus statement “It is finished” (Jn 19:30) be reconciled with the continual re-presenting of Christ sacrifice in the Mass?

The sacrifice was finished on Calvary. It is re-presented in an unbloody manner at Mass. I’m not seeing any contradiction. What happens at Mass is not a continuation of the Sacrifice at Calvary -rather, it is a means of making it present to the here and now, so that we can partake of it as Christ commanded us to do. (John 6:54-59)

1. Instead of belivers having the full assurance of complete forgivness of sins through the once for all sacrifice the Mass gives a constant reminder of sins and remaining guilt to be atoned for week after week

We are assured of the forgiveness of our sins at the Kyrie, as well as during the Absolution when we go to Confession.

1. The bible teaches that all sins not just mortal sins cause spiritual death or spiritual seperation from God.

Either all sins are mortal sins, and every sin causes us to go to Hell, or some sins are not mortal sins, in which case, there are times when we can slip up, but not go to Hell for it.

1. the apostles proclaimed Gods forgivness of sin based on belief in Christ as savior (Acts 5:31) They merely announced what heaven already announced.

What does it mean to “believe”? If you just assent with your mind, but don’t respond with your whole life, do you really believe? (If I say, “I believe the stove is hot” and then I put my bare hand on it, did I really believe it was hot?)

 

[Subrosa]

Hey, guys, don’t get defensive. Odell is a atholic and he’s looking for some help with these topics.

Lemme see if I can take shot at some of these…

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations

Wisdom 2:12-24 is very prophetic. It tells of our Lord’s Passion a hundred years before it happened. Also, that argument as applied would remove shared OT books such as Job and Song of Songs which are not prophetic. This shows the error of that argument.

1. No new testament writer quoted from any of the apocyphal books as Scripture or gave them the slightest authority as inspired books

No New Testament writer claims that any of thier quotes have any authority whatsoever. They use the quotes only for teaching. Also, in Jude we find two references to truly apocryphal texts: Vs. 14 is a direct quote from the apocryphal Book of Enoch. Vs. 9 is a direct reference to the apocryphal Assumption of Moses. These examples prove that quotations from other books neither prove no disprove thier being inspired.

1. bible alone Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees this Neglecting the commandment of God you hold to the traditions of men (Mk 7:8)

Bible alone? Wassat about? While Jesus did indeed refer to scripture, many of His teachings are brand new and definately not fro any scripture. His teachings on baptism and His flesh and Blood being the bread of life are New Testament teachings, foreshadowed in the Old Testament.

In Mk 7:8 Jesus condemns corrupted traditions that have become more important than God’s law, NOT traditions that actually follow God’s law. Read the text! “This people honors me with thier lips, but thier hearts are far from me.” In the way we practice our faith we must keep what we do in our hearts and not just pay lip service.

I’ll let someone else carry on…

Subrosa

 

[JoeyWarren]

1. Scripture indicates that the church is built on the foundation of the prohets and apostles eph 2:20. Once a foundation is built no further foundation is needed and theref ore there is no need for apostolic successors

THE FOUNDATION OF THE APOSTLES AND THE PROPHETS IS BUILT UPON THE ROCK THAT IS PETER. JESUS DECLARED SIMON TO THE BE ROCK THAT JESUS WOULD BUILD HIS CHURCH ON. FOUNDATIONS IS DISTINCTIVE FROM A ROCK. HERE IS GRAPHIC REPRESSENTATION.

FIRST THE ROCK AS APPOINTED BY JESUS

P__ E _T E _R

THE FOUNDATION CANNOT BE BUILT BECAUSE THE ROCK IS TOO ROUGH SO JESUS GIVES PETER THE KEYS TO BIND AND LOOSE AND THE ROCK TAKES ON A BETTER CHARACTERISTIC FOR BUILDING.

THUS IT BECOMES THIS

P__ E __T E R

THEN THE CHIEF CORNERSTONE IS ADDED AS THE SUPPORT TO

JESUS_______________
P__ E __T E R

THEN THE APOSTLES AND PROPHETS FOUNDATION IS ADDED

JESUS___ Apostles & Prophets
P__ E __T E R

AND THEN THE CHURCH IS BUILT UPON ALL THIS

C___ H___ U__ R C H
JESUS Apostles & Prophets
P__ E __T E R

1. in view of the tremendous attention paid to Mary in the Catholic church she is metion very few times in the new testament

PROTESTANTS DON’T SEE THE MASSIVE AMOUNT OF ATTENTION WE GIVE JESUS AT EVERY MASS. THE ENTIRE MASS IS ABOUT CHRIST AND CALVARY. PROTESTANTS ONLY SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO SEE. THE DARK LORD HIDES THE ATTENTION WE GIVE TO JESUS FROM THE PROTESTANTS.

1. Jesus never exalted his mother as Catholic do. He is often seen downplaying her like calling her woman instead of mother

HE NEVER EXALTED HER? IN THE DAYS OF THE CHRIST, THE TITLE WOMAN WAS GIVEN A TITLE OF RESPECT MUCH AS WORD LADY IS USED TODAY. MODERN USAGE OF THE WORD HAS IT MADE A DEROGATORY WORD. SATAN HAS CORRUPTED A VERY GOOD AND RESPECTABLE WORD.

 

[JoeyWarren]

1. Jeus unique qualificaton as Redeemer is precisely what disqualifies Mary from being co redeemer she her self need a redeemer(Lk 1:48)

We don’t believe she is a co-redeemer. As for needing a savior? She did not need Jesus. Jesus redemptive work on the Cross did not affect Mary’s state of Grace at all. God is her savior. She had saving grace in full measure. She is proclaiming GOD as being her savior. She never states she NEEDS a savior. Word that Luke used makes this clear that her state of Grace was done before the angel even showed up. KECHARITOMENE

KE
signifying that the word is in the perfect tense. This indicates a present state which is the result of a completed past action. The action which brought about the state in which Mary is, in other words, was completed before Gabriel’s greeting. Gabriel is viewing the finished results.

CHARITO
The root word is charitoo caritow], which means “to grace, favor.” On this much, it seems, all agree. All the common English translations of the word therefore, regardless of whether the translators are Catholic or Protestant, use some form of “grace” or “favor” in them.

MENE The suffix on charitoo, mene, makes this a passive participle. “Passive” means that the action is performed on the subject, in this case Mary, by another agent. The verb is “grace” and the implied subject is Mary. The passive usage means that “someone graced Mary,” rather than “Mary graced.” Most theologians would probably accept the assumption that the implied “someone” is God.

 

[Odell]

The statements are questions.

Actually he is asking for counter statements to the given statements.

Each one of the 18 are a thread unto itself.

So he should have started 18 new threads.

Thanks Joey my statements are questions.

and I am asking for counter statements.

most people fire away with statements like this and I think it is easier to learn a quick response to these statement.

anyway some of this stuff is brought up in other threds but sometimes are very lengthy counter statements. and hard to remember. plus in real life people are not going to listen to you for very long so you have to be quick and to the point.

People like you have helped to put as much thought in a couple paragraphs as possible. And I it is a big help for me. quick and to the point.

If some of you guys dont care to respond than fine. But I didnt think I would get so much rudeness out of my own faith group.

thanks and I hope more respond.

 

[JoeyWarren]

you are most welcome.

I will work on the other nine tommorrow.

I am exhausted for trying to give short counter comments.

PS, I used CAPS to separate your statements from mine. no yelling implied.

 

[Randy_Carson]

these are some questions that I have seen. there real quick questions that I would like real quick answers to. They are anti Catholic questions than many people may run into I need help comeing up with a quick responce to each question for my notes. Kind of like John Martinoni’s 2 min apologetics. But these are more questions that he does not cover.

anyway please answer all the questions if you are going to respond I dont want to search all over the thread and only get some of the quesitons answered. Also if any Protestant has an issue with someones answers feel free to start a thread on the particular questons dont debate on this thred please all I want is quick answers to these quick questions

I think this will be good and could branch off into some good threads.

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations
2. No new testament writer quoted from any of the apocyphal books as Scripture or gave them the slightest authority as inspired books
3. bible alone Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees this Neglecting the commandment of God you hols to the traditions of men (Mk 7:8)
4. When Paul list the authority structure in the early Church in (1cor12:28) there is not mention of a pope"God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers"
5. Paul corrects Peter in (Gal 2:11-14) If Peter had been a supreme pontiff during this time Paul would have been out of order. Pauls correction shows Peter was not considered suprem
6. Scripture indicates that the church is built on the foundation of the prohets and apostles eph 2:20. Once a foundation is built no further foundation is needed and theref ore there is no need for apostolic successors
7. in view of the tremendous attention paid to Mary in the Catholic church she is metion very few times in the new testament
8. Jesus never exalted his mother as Catholic do. He is often seen downplaying her like calling her woman instead of mother
9. Jeus unique qualificaton as Redeemer is precisely what disqualifies Mary from being co redeemer she her self need a redeemer(Lk 1:48)
10. Mary was the mother of Jesus the man not his devine nature of God.
11. God looks at us through the Lord Jesus Christ he sees us in all pure white holiness of his son. he does not see our sins
12. Good works are a by product of salvation. We do works not to get salvation but because we have already gotten it.
13. Leviticus 3:17 says drinking blood is forbidden. In view of the scriptural teaching that drinking blood is forbidden do you think the deciples schooled in the commandments would have understood Jesus to be instructing them to go directly against the commandments?
14. If The Church al over the world holds mass wouldnt jesus human body have to be everywhere present? Doesnt scripture teach that only christ divine nature not his human nature is everywher present. Christ body is in heaven (Rev 1:13-16)
15. How can Jesus statement “It is finished” (Jn 19:30) be reconciled with the continual re-presenting of Christ sacrifice in the Mass?
16. Instead of belivers having the full assurance of coplete forgivness of sins through the once for all sacrifice the Mass gives a constant reminder of sins and remaining guilt to be atoned for week after week
17. The bible teaches that all sins not just mortal sins cause spiritual death or spiritual seperation from God
18. the apostles proclaimed Gods forgivness of sin based on belief in Christ as savior(Atcs 5:31) They merly announced what heaven already announced.

One thread one topic. I’d be happy to tackle these one at a time, but each one deserves more than a one or two sentence answer.

Care to re-post?

 

[Techno2000]

1. Jesus never exalted his mother as Catholic do. He is often seen downplaying her like calling her woman instead of mother
   .

Maybe this is the reason He called her Woman :

I will put enmities between thee and the woman, and thy seed and her seed: she shall crush thy head, and thou shalt lie in wait for her heel. Genesis 3:15

And a great sign appeared in heaven: A woman clothed with the sun, and the moon under her feet, and on her head a crown of twelve stars. The Apocalypse Of Saint John 12:1

 

[TheApologist]

1. No apocryphal book contains predictive prophecy, which would serve to confirm divine inspirations

One doesn’t have to be a prophet to be inspired. One doesn’t need confirmation in Scripture of Scripture’s inspiration because one can’t find it there. How were all the books of the Old and New Testaments brought together? The Church!

1. No new testament writer quoted from any of the apocyphal books as Scripture or gave them the slightest authority as inspired books

In fact they did…I have this handy website which has all of the info…(see above posts)

1. bible alone Jesus rebuked some of the Pharisees this Neglecting the commandment of God you hols to the traditions of men (Mk 7:8)

Doesn’t this say traditions OF MEN? The Bible also says:

2 Thessalonians 2:15
So then, brethren, stand firm and hold to the traditions which you were taught, whether by word of mouth or by letter from us.

AND

1 Corinthians 11:2
Now I praise you because you remember me in everything and hold firmly to the traditions, just as I delivered them to you.

This obviously shows that Tradition was taught during New Testament times and the New Testament tells us to stick to it. This is obviously apostolic Tradition. Did the apostles not ordain other men as priests and heads of church? Why wouldn’t they?

1. When Paul list the authority structure in the early Church in (1cor12:28) there is not mention of a pope"God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers"

This does not exclude a head apostle. Does it? Was not Peter always mentioned at the beginnings of lists of apostles, and did not Peter get his new name from Christ? Is not name changing by God a huge thing in the Bible especially to name formerly reserved to God?

1. Paul corrects Peter in (Gal 2:11-14) If Peter had been a supreme pontiff during this time Paul would have been out of order. Pauls correction shows Peter was not considered suprem

If Peter was corrected, this just goes to show that no one is perfect…not even the Vicar of Christ. Christ didn’t promise impeccability to Peter. He promised him that the Church built on Peter would prevail against the gates of the netherworld.

1. Scripture indicates that the church is built on the foundation of the prohets and apostles eph 2:20. Once a foundation is built no further foundation is needed and theref ore there is no need for apostolic successors

And so your Protestant ministers are going against God’s will are they. Wouldn’t they be trying to add to the foundation? Especially by participating in services no where approved of in the Bible.

Isn’t the definition of a foundation as something to start on…something which strengthens something else? This obviously implies that something or someone else would be supporting the foundation.

1. in view of the tremendous attention paid to Mary in the Catholic church she is metion very few times in the new testament

Not everything is in the Bible. The fact that all Truth is in the Bible is found no where in the Bible. In fact the Bible discourages that thinking like in John where it is said

John Chapter 21
25 Jesus did many other things as well. If every one of them were written down, I suppose that even the whole world would not have room for the books that would be written.

This obviously shows that things at least COULD happen to Mary outside of Scripture.

1. Jesus never exalted his mother as Catholic do. He is often seen downplaying her like calling her woman instead of mother

Is calling someone woman demeaning her? I see it as calling someone woman. You see at the wedding at Cana, where Jesus called Mary, woman…he followed her suggestion. Is this not respecting her?

1. Jeus unique qualificaton as Redeemer is precisely what disqualifies Mary from being co redeemer she her self need a redeemer(Lk 1:48)

Does the Catholic Church say Mary is Co-Redeemer? No. Everything that goes through Mary is dependent on Christ’s giving of redemption. Mary is the Mediatrix of all graces. This simply means that everything Christ gave to us in his Redemption of us comes through Mary’s “yes” to God when the angel appeared to her. This does NOT mean she redeemed us.

More…

 

[TheApologist]

1. Mary was the mother of Jesus the man not his devine nature of God.

Is Jesus a man? Yes?
Is Jesus God? Yes?
Is Jesus God and man? Yes?
Is Jesus one Person? Yes?
How can Jesus be one human person and one God person?
Jesus can have two natures and be one person. These natures are essentially united in One Jesus…One Person.

We do not claim Mary gave Jesus his God nature. But she didn’t simply give birth to a Human Person. At the Incarnation Jesus, as solely a Person with one God nature, took on a Human nature as well. These two natures became united. Since two natures cannot equal two Persons…only one Person. Since Jesus is only one Person, since He is both God and Man and Mary was the mother of Jesus. She had to be the Mother of God. If you claim Mary wasn’t the Mother of God then you claim Jesus either wasn’t God or he was two Persons.

1. God looks at us through the Lord Jesus Christ he sees us in all pure white holiness of his son. he does not see our sins

Are you saying we are incapable of sin? Did Jesus not see sin? To forgive sin one needs to see sin. Didn’t Jesus forgive sins. Since the Father is in Jesus, this obviously shows that the Father can see sin. And since we don’t receive salvation in one life since we obviously see Scripture state that people should “continue to work out their salvation with fear and trembling” He must always see our sin. God cannot judge the masses without seeing our sin.

1. Good works are a by product of salvation. We do works not to get salvation but because we have already gotten it.

I agree…no amount of good works can “get” us our salvation. Salvation is a gift of God. How does one “get” a gift? By receiving it, by complying with God. How do we receive and comply with God? By doing good works. James says that faith without works is dead. It says “that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.” This definitively shows that we cannot receive God’s gift of salvation without complying with Him by doing good works.

1. Leviticus 3:17 says drinking blood is forbidden. In view of the scriptural teaching that drinking blood is forbidden do you think the deciples schooled in the commandments would have understood Jesus to be instructing them to go directly against the commandments?

Did Jesus not bring a new era to the world?

Plus Lev 3:17 states this: It is a perpetual statute throughout your generations in all your dwellings: you shall not eat any fat or any blood.’"

This is surely a presentiment to Lev 7:26 “You are not to eat any blood, either of bird or animal, in any of your dwellings.”
This refers to the ban on eating anything of animals. This was repealed in the New Testament as Jesus opened a new era in the world. For the Bible says this: Romans 14:2 “One person has faith that he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats vegetables only.” This obviously shows that the Old Testament ban on eating meat was repealed.

1. If The Church al over the world holds mass wouldnt jesus human body have to be everywhere present? Doesnt scripture teach that only christ divine nature not his human nature is everywher present. Christ body is in heaven (Rev 1:13-16)

Yes, but Jesus can be present in two ways. Just as when Jesus was on earth and He was everywhere in divinity and in one place in humanity, Jesus can be in different places in different ways. In the Mass Jesus is present sacramentally…more fully than He is present everywhere in divinity. This is just as He was present on earth during his ministry.

 

[TheApologist]

1. How can Jesus statement “It is finished” (Jn 19:30) be reconciled with the continual re-presenting of Christ sacrifice in the Mass?

Re-presenting is not the same as dying for redemption again. We are linked through time to Jesus’s moment of saving us from sin. So every Mass we are re-presenting that one moment. Not trying to recreate it afterwards or again.

1. Instead of belivers having the full assurance of coplete forgivness of sins through the once for all sacrifice the Mass gives a constant reminder of sins and remaining guilt to be atoned for week after week

This is because one cannot receive an assurance of salvation. As stated before Scripture says we should work out our salvation in fear and trembling. This obviously is a progressive thing and not a one moment thing. In the process we can still sin. Why can’t we be reminded of those sin? Also is it sin to celebrate God’s Love for us?

1. The bible teaches that all sins not just mortal sins cause spiritual death or spiritual seperation from God

Where in the Bible does it say this?

1. the apostles proclaimed Gods forgivness of sin based on belief in Christ as savior(Acts 5:31) They merly announced what heaven already announced.

Acts 5:31 states this:
He is the one whom God exalted to His right hand as a Prince and a Savior, to grant repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

This in no way preaches belief in Christ solely for forgiveness. This simply states that Christ was exalted to the Father’s right hand to grant repentance and forgiveness of sins.

Please, please, please check my arguments to see if I’m okay.

 

[LilyM]

1. Mary was the mother of Jesus the man not his devine nature of God.

Nestorian heresy, condemned at the Council of Ephesus in 431. Jesus was true man and true God hypostatically united. He wasn’t two separate beings, ergo Mary was the mother of the WHOLE Jesus - divinity and all. Not in the sense that she created the divinity, though. No mother creates her child separate from its father, but every mother IS nonetheless mother of the whole child.

1. God looks at us through the Lord Jesus Christ he sees us in all pure white holiness of his son. he does not see our sins

Evidence? Jesus said whose sins the Apostles forgave were FORGIVEN, not merely covered.

1. Good works are a by product of salvation. We do works not to get salvation but because we have already gotten it.

Evidence? Faith without works is dead, Christ separates the righteous from the unrighteous and sends them to their eternal fate based, at least in part, on the good they do. There’s no indication in Scripture that the works and salvation are necessarily related in the way you describe.

1. If The Church al over the world holds mass wouldnt jesus human body have to be everywhere present? Doesnt scripture teach that only christ divine nature not his human nature is everywher present. Christ body is in heaven (Rev 1:13-16)

Does scripture say anywhere that his body is ONLY in heaven? No. His is a glorified body, it’s not bound to behave the way ours do - it could walk through walls etc.

1. How can Jesus statement “It is finished” (Jn 19:30) be reconciled with the continual re-presenting of Christ sacrifice in the Mass?

HIS part in salvation has been completed - our part, where we are required to accept his saving work, eat his flesh and drink his blood, obey his commands, do this in his memory etc etc of course is not complete.

1. Instead of belivers having the full assurance of coplete forgivness of sins through the once for all sacrifice the Mass gives a constant reminder of sins and remaining guilt to be atoned for week after week.

Even Paul didn’t intend to preach full assurance - hence ‘let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall’, ‘work out your salvation in fear and trembling’ etc etc. Do you not believe that anyone who sins needs to repent? That’s what we do!

1. The bible teaches that all sins not just mortal sins cause spiritual death or spiritual seperation from God

No it doesn’t - John talks of sins that are unto death and sins not unto death, and praying over the latter and not the former. Clearly there are different categories of sin, some do not cause death.