Questions for Teachers

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Oh my gosh, the description of this school just gets worse & worse! The attitude towards family & students seems bad for a lot of the staff, but I just can’t believe the safety issues! Little kids running outside with no supervision, in a bad area?! OK, now I’ve re-read your post & see that the priest has stopped the unsupervised running. How are they at recess? This school seems to have some issues. I would follow the advice of people here about going to the teacher & principal, maybe at the same time, & documenting everything. The good thing is that the priest seems willing to get involved, at least if safety is involved… Good luck this week!
 
It’s a hard situation . . . you’ve entrusted your dd to the school, and therefore must have a certain amount of trust in them.

On the other hand, you pay tuition, so you have a right to know what’s going on and get answers. You’re a consumer paying for their services.

Best of luck to you and your family! —KCT
 
Thanks for your advice. Trust me, when my dd got into the car and cried, I was so angry that I did want to turn the car around and go straight to the principal, but I was to angry and was afraid I would say something I would regret later. Yes, this teacher has lied already to us on one other occassion and she is aware that we believe our dd over her. She was not to happy over that. She has a problem because everytime I do write a note to her, she gets angry. Two times she has addressed the issue with our dd instead of with us. I am praying about all this this week they are on Spring Break, but I know that when I ask for a conference, she will refuse. She did one time and apparently they can, but if she does, we are prepared to go to the Principal and if nothing is done to the Pastor. The Pastor already has one parent that went up the ladder and finally to him. This parent was upset because the second graders were running around the school, the school is in a bad section of town just last month a murder occured just blocks from the school, with not adult supervision. The coach stays at the office and doesn’t have view of all the children all the time. This parent went to the principal and nothing was done. Her dd missed PE one day because her mom refused to allow her to run around the school with no supervision in todays age where kids are kidnapped. I didn’t know as many of the other parents that they did this. I have seen the older kids do this, but didn’t know they started this in second grade. This parent had no choice but to go to the pastor who put a stop to the unsupervised running. The principal of this school doesn’t do much and is not liked by many parents.

This school has many problems and the kids are not one of them!
the way I see it you have requested a “conference before” with this teacher yet the teacher seems animate about taking it out on the child after you say your peace, Its now time to have a 4 person conference, teacher, principle, and pastor and of course yourself, I wouldnt settle for anything less this close to end of school year, the Pastor NEEDS to know what is going on.

a conference with just teacher at this point in time could have some detrimental effects on your child and final grade , I have seen it so many times. so be careful, if you just end up seeing the teacher take a tape recorder with you and record everything,

good luck
John
 
Thanks everyone for the suggestions. I just received a call from a woman who is a homeschooling mom and a friend. She use to be the secretary of our pastor and knows him very well. She has him over for dinner. She just confirmed to me that the school has many problems and that the pastor is aware of most of them. She had the same problems that I do now and that is why she left, but she did tell the pastor/friend why. He is in the process of hiring teachers like the new math teacher who is a very devout orthodox Catholic and a very close friend of this woman’s son. He had a hard time when he first started to work there for they didn’t like his spirituality. He talked a lot to the pastor of what is going on at the school and how mean the teachers are to the students. This explains a lot for the pastor put in his bulletin that they are hiring teachers for many grades for the next school year. I guess some teachers will not be coming back. I really hope that this second grade teacher is one of them, but she has been there for more than 10 years. So anyway, it is great to know that the pastor has an insider in the school and is taking action. He wants more caring and Catholic teachers who live their faith.

Should I go straight to the pastor with all this or should I talk to the teacher again? If I do the teacher only, she will deny anything and take it out on our daughter again. I don’t know what to do now. Any suggestions?? I don’t want my daughter to suffer at the hands of this teacher anymore. If I call or write a note, this teacher will be angry at my daughter. She has already singled her out. One thing I have noticed since we accused her once is that when she sees me in the car line and my dd approaches my car, this teachers says really loud, “Good job, Mariana.” I don’t know why she has to say it so loud, but to prove that she doesn’t pick on our daughter and single her out. She doesn’t do this to other students. I think its weird.
 
Well, you can pull her out of school now, and start testing her on 2nd grade level items. Once you have evaluated her needs, you can school her at her pace and your comfort level.

I had a friend of mine who’s mother did this (puller her out two months before years end), and she graduated 3 years before I did. I’m still jealous.

But if the school is getting new teachers, perhaps it is worth waiting to see how next year turns out?
 
My advice, do not send any notes or put your daughter in the middle in any way. Have a meeting with the teacher AND a third party (the principal or pastor).
 
Hi everyone,
My dh and I have a conference with this teacher tomorrow at 11:00 a.m. I was hoping for prayers for support and to know what to say and not to say. We will be discussing the humiliation she put our daughter in. My dh has been acting out in anger outburst and all I know is that she hates school now and doesn’t want to go. Just yesterday, she told me she had a terrible headache and stomach ache. I kept her home and she was fine all day. I did not allow her to watch TV or go outside and treated her as if she was sick. She admitted that she was not and just hates to go to school. I will allow the teacher to know this and that there seems to be problems at school for her between her and the teacher. My daughter just feels she is picked on by the teacher, but when the teacher gives her a compliment, she is so happy.

Please keep us in prayer. I just don’t want to make the last five weeks of school worse for her for this teacher is very sarcastic and revengeful. I don’t know if she is one of the ones not returning next year, but it doesn’t matter, we are out of that school after this year. My dd made a comment today to me that she wants us to take her out of school now and not wait. I don’t know if things are that bad in class. Something is not right!

Prayers please would be greatly appreciated. Please pray that my dh won’t say something he will regret also. I know the teacher will deny what she did to our dd, but we will let her know that we believe our dd and we have talked with other parents and they have asked their kids and it happened as my dd says.
 
I just came from the conference and they had the school psychologist present as well. I am so upset with them that I have lost my appetite.

Basically, the teacher denied putting her hands on our dd. She said, “Do you really think that I would put my hands on a kid in a Catholic school?” I wanted to say that I believe my dd, but the teacher lied about things. They got defensive when I mentioned that my dd is acting out and having tantrums. They asked if we were blaming them. One teacher even said that she saw my dh discipline our dd at one of the communion retreats and they are not as harsh. I don’t know when she could have seen this for I took her to all of the services except one. I asked my dh if he needed to discipline her on that night and he said no. Then they put the blame on us. They were saying that our dd is having all this anxiety because we made it such a big deal that the kids needed to genuflect in church when the Church clearly says that we have the choice to bow or genuflect. They said this and said that since we were telling her to genuflect and the class was bowing, she had this struggle within her. The same goes for receiving communion for the first time. They said that we prefer that our dd take it on the mouth, but she wants to go with the rest of the class and have it in the hands. They said this also causes her anxiety and that is why she is acting out. They said that she and her best friend are fighting a lot at school and that her best friend is avoiding my dd because she knows that next year she would not be there. I do think that our dd is struggling with what we say and what the school says. She is confused. She is also hurt and confused when the teacher lies and it is her word against the teacher. She was surprised when I told her what the teacher said about one episode where it was just her and the teacher. She said, “Mommy, she is lying.” This teacher is now saying that she did not or never does lay hands on students. I know this to be a lie for sure for I know of two other parents that said their children complained of this teacher grabbing their arm or shoulder. My dh actually witnessed this teacher on the communion practice grab a kid and push him to where he needed to go. We can’t fight lies. How can we proud it? I am just glad that my dd is out of there next year. They even said that it is our fault, as far as her having anxieties, for taking her away from her friends in school. They even tried blaming my niece who they called a “drama queen” and that my dd has learn from her.

I feel sad and angry all in one. I can’t believe some of what was said about being a Catholic. They even said that one priest may say one thing and then comes another pastor and changes things. This was in reference to G.I.R.M. and what we are to do in Mass. I was so frustrated and so was my dh. He said it was so much error that it was not enough time to go into it all.

My sister has her kids going there next year and is afraid of keeping them there. Her children are already labeled and even if they get a new teacher, she is informed of how they perceive them. Now, I understand my sister when she use to come out of these conferences frustrated for they blame the parent. They even tried to patronize us and say that we are being the best parent that we can be. I wish I could just take her out of school now, but her First Communion is this Sunday and there is only 4 more weeks to go. The entire school needs changes and I am only one person and can’t change it all. I think the parents need to get together and talk. They did deny that the children at that school have fear. Every parent, including one formal assistant teacher, said the school is based on fear. When I mentioned that they put too much responsibility on the children starting in first grade, the first grade teacher said, “Not for this school.” That is when I said, “That is why she is not returning next year.”

Thanks for all of your prayers. Now I just need to wait to talk to my dd and allow her to express her feelings so that she can stop acting out. I even told them that is wants to get out of school now and the counselor said it is because it hurts her too much to leave her friends and she wants to do it now. I didn’t by this. She wants to get out, for they give excessive amount of homework and she has no play time.

Oh, and when we were talking about genuflecting before the tabernacle, they said that Jesus would not care if we bowed or genuflected. I asked what about the respect and they didn’t answer and were just upset. They didn’t want to argue about that topic anymore.

I have vented now. I still don’t feel better.🤷
 
Well, it is permitted to receive on the tongue or in the hand -the school is correct there. It should be up to the recipient to decide IMHO.

And I believe that a profound bow OR genuflection is required - someone here will have the link to the documents.

🤷
 
I am a teacher at a Catholic school. I don’t know how big your school is, but my advice to you is to take your child out now. Waiting another 5 weeks is not fair to your daughter. I have to say that although our school is the most loving, upbeat school I have ever taught in, we have had parents in a few different grades who for some reason or another (usually a differing opinion about homework policies or something similar) have decided they did not want their child to go there anymore. If your words are not packing a big enough punch with them, the tuition they will not receive from you (and a few others who sound like they need to pull their kids out, too) will cause them to realize maybe they need to shape up. If this is a big school, it might not make a big impact if a lot of people don’t do it, but out of respect for your daughter and yourselves, I wouldn’t wait until school is out. Your daughter is at a prime age for being impacted “for life” by her situation.
 
My dd has these books that she has to read by a certain time. She told me two days ago that she has two chapter books to read by Wednesday and it was Monday. …She asked her what was written on the blackboard last week in reference to these books. My dd told her that she could not remember.
Three things:
  1. The teacher should have contacted you about your note, and not the child. She could have explained to you that your daughter (through forgetfulness or something else) did not represent the nature of the assignment correctly. Had the teacher contacted you directly about your note, the two of you could have worked together to help your daughter keep track of her homework better. But, because she took your daughter’s behavior personally, she blew an opportunity to help her student.
  2. The way she spoke to your daughter was not appropriate for a child that age. If she spoke to your child at all about the matter, she should have spoken to your daughter privately, or made a general announcement to the class reminding them how long they had already been given to work on the assignment. You are correct to voice your displeasure with her professional conduct, though it would appear from your account the nature of the assignment itself was not unreasonable.
  3. Your daughter several days to work on those books before she spoke to you. This is an issue to take up with your daughter. At this point, it’s not something that should be punished, but rather lovingly remedied. She may benefit from an assignment book, where she can write these things down herself to minimize forgetting. In fact, there are some elementary and middle schools that provide such for their students, and require students to use them so they can develop good homework habits. Such things can also be checked by teachers and parents to make sure the child is diligent with them.
 
I taught nine years in a primary school and this is not acceptable. As a parent I would not allow my child to go through this. In fact this schoolyear my son had a teacher very much like this, doing similar things (such as reprimanding him for my sending a note - this was only one thing of MANY, and other things were more demented, but that alone, in your case and in mine, is a sign the teacher has no clue about appropriateness).

The teacher was a bully, and in the adminsitration, I already had seen precident to stand with their teachers when parents had a problem, and invalidate the parental concerns. I tried telling them the problems, and gave compelling explicit examples, but they weren’t seeing it. They would listen blankly, as if there might be a possibility I was making this all up. I could not wait around for them to see the obvious. So I took him out after almost three months, which was too long with this awful woman.

I am so glad I got my son out, although I really wanted him in that school, and it was so hard to go public, which was my only other option. At least in the public school they validate parent concerns and try to do something about it. And the public ones are usually big enough so that transferrring a student to another class is possible if there is a problem.

I do think that such a school experience can scar for life and certainly affect negatively how they feel about and perform in school for the rest of school. My son still tells stories that surprise me about things she said and did in his short time with her. Evil or mean people in a story remind him of her.

I can only assume you had no choice but to keep her with that awful teacher? Couldn’t tranfser to another teacher, another school, or homeschool?

Two more months! A long time for your poor daughter. Doesn’t the administration listen??

As far as talking to other parents, I guess misery loves compnay, but really there is enough wrong with whats going on that you don’t need any more proof.

At the very least, you could complain to the administration, requesting in-person conferences, for the rest of this year, being specific in your complaints, and also make it clear your daughter cannot have another teacher like this next year. You’ve paid you “bad-teacher dues” now, and its time your daughter got a good one. (I hope you know who the pick of the crop is for next year.)
 
Thanks everyone. What makes me sad is that this teacher does lie and has no problem with it. The other teacher present and the school counselor believed this teacher. Even I wondered if my dd just forgot to tell me things. When we complained about her method of calling our dd to the front of class and reprimanding her in front of everyone, her response was, “Did she tell you that there was three other students with her?” My dd never mentioned any other students. They blamed that whole thing on my dd’s “perception” of things. When I picked up my dd after school, I asked her about that day and if there was other students. She said she was the only one standing up before the class for she was addressing my note. To that the teacher said that she does not read the notes until midmorning when she gets a chance, but she read this one that morning and I am sure she has read others also, but she had her colleages there with her and she had to be convincing. I did ask another student in the class if my dd was the only one standing up in the front or if there were three others. She said it was my dd alone. So you see, the teacher lies. She even told us a story today to make all these tantrums she is having our fault. She told us that our dd is torn between taking communion on the tongue or hand. We told her we would prefer the tongue, but that it was up to her. She said that today in practice, my dd went up to her and had her hands in the praying hand position and just stood there not knowing what to do. I asked my dd and she said she had her hand out for communion on the hand. After I wrote to you this afternoon, I had to go back to the school to pick up my dd and nephew. We waited around for my niece to get out of tutoring. When she came out, the second grade teacher saw me by the church and she was by the school front office. She stayed there and didn’t walk with the students towards the church. When she saw that I was walking away is when she came towards the church. The reason I know this is because a girl behind us was saying hi to my dd and when I looked back, I saw her coming to the rest of the students. She avoids me and has always avoided me. I know for sure they are sore about the genuflection thing and by the way it is not related to going up to the communion time. It was when they entered the church, they did not genuflect.

When we left that conference, we felt as if something was wrong with our daughter. They even said she was having problems with her best friend and I asked both and they are like sister and have their little arguments, but they are fine. They had us believing that she is torn apart in obeying us and obeying the school and again, she said this is not a problem for her. I had a heart to heart, as they suggested, today after school. I don’t believe anything anymore from this teacher.
 
At the very least, you could complain to the administration, requesting in-person conferences, for the rest of this year, being specific in your complaints, and also make it clear your daughter cannot have another teacher like this next year. You’ve paid you “bad-teacher dues” now, and its time your daughter got a good one. (I hope you know who the pick of the crop is for next year.)
You know what is sad, they are all like this. They use fear and intimidation to scare the kids to obey to them. When you confront them on it, they deny it. I think that other parents need to speak up.

This is a small school, as someone asked, and when one family leaves, it is no big deal for them for there is a long waiting list of families wanted in the school. We had to wait two years. I thought first grade was bad and my sister told me that second grade would be better and it was not. They see nothing wrong in giving excessive amounts of homework. If a child, as they are quite a few in first grade, cries before school, they are “whining and wanting attention.” They dismiss the fact that the kids hate to come to school and in first grade. The teacher is like a military drill sergeant.

In this conference, they even said something bad against my niece saying that my dd has learned her “methods” of manipulation. I was offended by that and that they called her a “drama queen.” I felt like saying that the school was terrible to her when her family was affected by divorce and just told her to “dry it up” when she cried because mommy and daddy were getting a divorce. She had a terrible time adjusting and they put the blame on the child. My sister had to stop all visits to the school counselor for she had already labeled this child and told others, but she also made my niece feel that it was all her fault and how she felt was not right. Horrible. This counselor is horrible also. I have had to talk to her about an incidence where a boy liked my dd to much and she proceeded to tell me details of the boy and his family that I am sure is private information.

Part of me wants to take her out now, but I would hate to do over the entire second grade.
 
Three things:
  1. The teacher should have contacted you about your note, and not the child. She could have explained to you that your daughter (through forgetfulness or something else) did not represent the nature of the assignment correctly. Had the teacher contacted you directly about your note, the two of you could have worked together to help your daughter keep track of her homework better. But, because she took your daughter’s behavior personally, she blew an opportunity to help her student.
  2. The way she spoke to your daughter was not appropriate for a child that age. If she spoke to your child at all about the matter, she should have spoken to your daughter privately, or made a general announcement to the class reminding them how long they had already been given to work on the assignment. You are correct to voice your displeasure with her professional conduct, though it would appear from your account the nature of the assignment itself was not unreasonable.
  3. Your daughter several days to work on those books before she spoke to you. This is an issue to take up with your daughter. At this point, it’s not something that should be punished, but rather lovingly remedied. She may benefit from an assignment book, where she can write these things down herself to minimize forgetting. In fact, there are some elementary and middle schools that provide such for their students, and require students to use them so they can develop good homework habits. Such things can also be checked by teachers and parents to make sure the child is diligent with them.
I did ask the teacher to allow us to know when and how many AR books need to read by and by when. They said that they could not for it is the children’s responsibility to know that. She said she told the kids that two chapter books needed to be read by before Spring Break and she told them in January. Now that I think about it, I could have used her own words against her for she was telling my dh and I that children at her age can’t perceive time to well and one month might be very long for them. How can the chidren know when Spring break was or how long they had to read yet? I told them that it is too much responsiblity for the kids and they said not for their school. Are all Catholic schools like this?
 
Are all Catholic schools like this?
No NO NO NO NO!!!
I went to a wonderful Catholic school (and this was only about 10 or so years ago) and we never had problems like this.
As for AR, it is the silliest idea ever, and really accomplishes nothing (I am an ED major and my mother is a librarian, so I have first hand issues with it)
Anyway-
Are there other Catholic schools you can take your daughter to? Homeschooling is not a bad idea. It may be the way to fix the problems from this year, and give you more time to find another school, if that is what the Holy Spirit is calling you to.
Have you and your daughter prayed for help and advice? Have you offered it up at your rosary time?
I still wouldn’t wait around for the end of the year, if you want to pull her out. There is nothing that says you have to wait.
Good luck to you.
 
Wow, nana3, I just saw your recent posts today, & I’m sorry to say it seems like the situation has gotten worse instead of better. It seems even more likely to me that it is a systemic problem with this school, & not just 1 or 2 bad eggs.

Again, I’m just speaking as a fellow mom, & I have no experience in education, but I’m just sorry you’re going through all this. I was blessed to have had my children go to a great public school with wonderful, professional teachers, & now they go to a great Catholic school with wonderful, professional teachers. There are litttle issues every once in awhile, & occasionally parents have problems, but the parents & teachers work them out. This teacher has acted inappropriately, & it seems like everyone has sided with her. If I’m understanding correctly, the conference included an extra teacher, the counselor & the principal. They seemed to have decided the issue before you got there. They all had arguments ready & claims to prove that dd’s upset is all your fault. They seem to have problems with your more traditional beliefs & want to blame everything on them. (That can be a sign of another problem, & sometimes schools that are too liberal can do more harm to the faith than good- most parishes would let the kids receive by mouth or hand, why their need to force the hand issue?) I have had 2 great principals, & I know they would have heard me out if I was having a problem, not just sided with the teacher & agreed on their arguments before they heard your case. Most staff would at least give the APPEARANCE that they are listening & open-minded. The counselor had arguments all ready for you, too. I’m shocked they would call your niece a drama queen & manipulator, not be more supportive when she struggled with a divorce, & call crying 1st graders whiners.
It just sounds so unprofessional & anti-child. The teacher does seem to have been caught in lies, but no one there will believe you. I think you & your sister have already been labeled by everyone as big problems & have no credibility. If other parents do complain or leave, you will probably be accused of instigating it by lying. Hopefully they will step forward, though. I can’t give advice like teachers could, but I would go with your dh to talk with the priest.
I also agree that they expect the kids to be more responsible than they are ready for, & seem to pride themselves on it. Teachers & staff should be experts in what is developmentally appropriate, your staff seems out of touch. When 1 of my kids was in 2nd grade last year, her teacher wrote all assignments on the board. The kids had to write it in a homework tablet which had to be signed by a parent every day. I would think not all 8 or 9 year olds can do that right away, & I’ve heard of teachers & children working together as a TEAM for the child. Sorry to be so verbose, but I feel bad for you & am concerned by the tone of this school. I would let her receive with her class (I think your right to let her know it’s ok to receive like her classmates with her class, you can always talk about why you prefer the mouth in the future) & I would be ready to whip her out of there if anything else happens or escalates. I’m sure you’re having lots of talks with dd about believing in her, supporting her & that a teacher should not be treating her that way, most don’t,etc… I will say a prayer for your family & the school…
 
You know what is sad, they are all like this. They use fear and intimidation to scare the kids to obey to them. When you confront them on it, they deny it…
I think that other parents need to speak up.

I don’t think parents speaking up will do much, if this is the tone and way of the whole school.

Perhaps if you put all of your energy and life into fighting this, in ten years there might be some change. Meanwhile, your growing daughter needs you so is this how you want to spend your time?

There is how you’d like things to be and how they actually are. Sometimes you just have to accept how things are. Actually, most times. And work with that. I guess I mean, I don’t think there is much to work with at this school.

I never wanted my son in public school, but I have been forced to accept circumstance. You would not gbeleive how hard I worked to avoid it! Finally I had admit that it obviously was God’s will. becaue he couold have done a miracle to prevent what I wanted so much to prevent, but he didn’t.

I have to say, I see more Catholicity in the possibly pagan teachers than in the Catholic ones in many instances (of my limitedexperience - I know ther are good Catholkic teachers out there!). Because Catholicity is not the letter of the law (and one can at least say lack holy reverence - what a poor example of Catholocism!) but is the spirit of the law.

If you do all these things (i.e., follow all the letter of the Catholic law) and have not love, you have nothing.

I see more love in the public school teachers I have worked with, many of whom have no religion for all I know.

I think that certain Catholic schools hang onto the “old way” of authoritarianism. In this, the teacher is always right. The child must obey and never quesiton the authority. Also the parent must never question the authority of the teacher.

This is not Christian. Its not what Jesus taught. Its not Catholic. Its like the Pharisees, whose position and power meant everything, whose lack of love was what prevented them from knowing the Lord.

Its an easier way to teach, but no way to get to heaven!

Jesus loved the little children, and the children loved him. This is his example.

I saw part of Oprah yesterday, although that show, most of the time, is a turnoff. But my son and I were interested in the dog training expert she had on, and she trained in a loving, relationship method. She showed a spiked choker training collar many folks use, and it was interesting to contrast that other method of dog training. The old way - punishment based. The new way - kind words and rewards. Happy dogs for the latter.

Which makes me think of schools, and parenting. The old way - traditional Cathlic schools sometimes being a bad example of this - very authoritarian, with negative training, scaring the children, and plenty of invalidation. New trends in education are kinder, and many Catholic schools see the importance of loving kindness in teaching. But some adhere to the old way as they remember it. And I think sadistic types get into this. Types who like to bully, and be in charge.

It seems there is a certain population of teachers (a minority) that gets into teaching so they can have people to boss - a place to be the authority whose voice everyone has to jump to. And loving children, helping them grow is not their passion. Just *their own identity *as The Boss.

Its not about the kids. Its about them.

And when a parent threatens their place as the final authority (instead of doing what they are *supposed *to do, *revere *them), they engage in an all-out war to defend their entitled place as the Revered One. In this war, they are beside themselves in panic, their whole mind on the goal of defending their place, and so they do things like lie and make up stories in a blind attempt to meet their goal - defend their all-important place of entitlement.

Best you can do with these types, whom you have no power to change, is to perhaps flatter, and manipulate back with the flattery they crave in such a way they will be looking for more of your approval, and will work for it. Its hard to be that way if manipulating is not in your nature. If you think honest discussion is the way to resolve things. But you’re being honest is just putting your cards on the table for them to steal.

But you can’t make others think like you if they live from a whole different paridigm, particularly if they like their paridigm and think its the right one and they think you’re a wimp! If they respect themselves above others, if your being a nobody makes them a somebody, if its a war of “either you win or I win, and I’ll make sure its not you!” .

(continued in next post)
 
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