Questions my baptist friend had about the catholic faith

[Publisher]

A reminder for non-Catholics:

The teaching authority rests with the Bishops; priests assist the bishop in this mission. If priests “roll their own” they are doing it without the authority of the Church.

There is an order to things.

My question would be…why is it that the “official” doctrine of the Catholic church can state one thing and it’s priests state another…yet you still have “one church”…but if a Protestant minister states things contrary to the “official position” of the church body they belong to…that “proves” there is not “one church”?

 

[Edward_H]

My question would be…why is it that the “official” doctrine of the Catholic church can state one thing and it’s priests state another…yet you still have “one church”…but if a Protestant minister states things contrary to the “official position” of the church body they belong to…that “proves” there is not “one church”?

Well this assumes it is so; I am taking you at your word from above.

I’ve only run across one priest in 50 years who when queried on a particular point gave me a non-standard answer. And I pointed this out. Could have been a lack of courage on his part.

It really boils down to systematic error vs random error. Look up the differences in an stats/engineering book. Systematic errors, if and when they occur, eventually get corrected or resolved in the Catholic Church.

Random errors may or may not get corrected over time.

Systematic error in the Protestant Churches and in groups like Quakers can go on and on, sometimes forming whole new denominations, buttressed with what become official documents.

 

[LOCO]

While I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday, we got on the topic of religion and catholicism. He had alot of questions and I answered most of them. But there where some that I wasn’t sure about so I told him to send me the questions he had and I would find them out and get back to him as soon as possible. This is what he sent me, if you could help me out that would be great, thanks.

How do you defend the Catholic confessional system? If Jesus’ death forgives us of our sins and gave us direct access to God, why should anyone confess their sins to anyone other than God? Why else did the Temple curtain tear but to demonstrate this truth?..

"John 20 vs21-23 tells us when sins are forgiven: They are forgiven when the apostles forgive them. The Catholic Church is not saying that the apostles accomplish this by some magical powers or by their own power. Jesus “breathed on them” and gave them the power of the Holy Spirit to forgive sins. But the fact is that the apostles are the instruments of God’s forgiveness, and there can be no plainer example of a priestly function than this — except perhaps for the final text we will examine: Matthew 16:18-19.

“And I tell you, you are Peter, and on this rock I will build my church, and the powers of death shall not prevail against it. I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth shall be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.”

All Catholics are well acquainted with this text and its implications for papal infallibility. Here Jesus promises Peter the power to proclaim the gospel on earth with the infallible authority of heaven to back him up.

But less well known is that this text also refers to the forgiveness of sins (cf. CCC 553). In both cases, as stated above, we are talking about priestly functions; that is, Peter and his successors are promised the power to be mediators of both the message of God’s truth and the healing communicated through God’s forgiveness.

The text itself is most clear because it uses a very rare Greek construction that profoundly brings out the sacerdotal nature of the Petrine office (see sidebar).

The very mention of a ministerial priesthood elicits a deluge of thoughts in the minds and hearts of many of our Protestant friends. Take it from one who went from abhorring the very thought of confessing my sins to a priest to one who could not wait to experience the opening of the windows of heaven through the ministry of an ordained Catholic priest! I think I had every negative thought in the book toward the priesthood." TIM STAPLES

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?recnum=6475

 

[adrift]

Well this assumes it is so; I am taking you at your word from above.

I’ve only run across one priest in 50 years who when queried on a particular point gave me a non-standard answer. And I pointed this out. Could have been a lack of courage on his part.

Oh I don’t want to take his word. I want to know. There might be a few but that hardly equates to “an its priest” meaning all.

 

[Edward_H]

Oh I don’t want to take his word. I want to know. There might be a few but that hardly equates to “an its priest” meaning all.

You’re right. If we seek truth, we need to really seek it. These assumptions tend to snowball into “common knowledge.”

 

[rinnie]

well, there again is a example of how churches, although they may be the same denomination, all can believe entirely different… I guess whatever the Pastor of that church believes, controls what that local church believes…

This is true. Now here is one better. A protestant Church in my area was preaching about couples who engage in sexual activity and are of the same sex is a sin.

Now with that said the preacher received a letter from a member of the Congregation that he better lay off the Gays.

Guess what? He did it.

This is the truth my right hand on this one.

You do what you are told in those Church’s or you are OUT!!

 

[Esdra]

If all flavors of Baptists believe the same thing, why so many flavors of Baptists? Southern Baptists, Independent Baptists, Primitive Baptists, etc.

I had a friend who was Baptist and I asked him why. He said, “One reason. We get to vote.” I asked him what they got to vote on. He said, “Everything.” He went on to say that his particular Baptist church had just split over some doctrine they couldn’t agree on, so half stayed and the other half went form a different Baptist church. How does that work?

Huh? I’ve thought that the Baptist Churches joined together in the World Baptist Alliance need to believe the same to be in this Alliance? I am sure there are also “principles or statutes of faith” every Church that wants to join needs to acknowledge and sign, like it is the Case with the Alliance of Free Evangelical Churches and the Alliance of Baptists in Austria.

 

[Esdra]

From personal experience, growing up in a Baptist church, I can honestly say, the average protestant church today has gone from conservative in belief to very very liberal. And yes, the Protestant churches all have totally different beliefs. It drove me crazy and yes, when some dont like whats going on, the church splits, and then before you know it, there is a new protestant church opening down the street, with different beliefs. very confusing, very sad. The biggest problem with the protestant church is, which one holds the truth? they all believe something different. Some Protestant churches deny the Virgin Birth, some believe all go to heaven, no matter if one believes in Christ or not. Some Allow Gay Clergy. So, Which one is right? Thats why I love the Catholic church… it Holds the Truth! Have a question, you can go to the RCC and have the answer, the one true answer, period! Im so happy I left the Protestant church and now catholic! So, All you Protestants out there, since I was very active in many protestant churches, these catholics who say you all hold different major and minor differences in beliefs are 100% correct in saying so!

And that’s the “Catholic Problem” when Catholics speak about Protestants and their belief.
There are soooooooo many Protestant Churches, they have their creeds and catechisms and their “founders” (although they of course haven’t founded anything new!). But the important point is: They are all part of the One Church founded by Christ at Pentecost and have the same core beliefs. And that’s what Publisher wanted to say some posts above mine!!
If we talk about Baptists, as we do in this thread here, - please forget the other Protestant Churches.
We are talking about Baptists then! Not about SDA, nor Lutherans, nor Presbyterians,nor Anglicans nor any other Protestant Church and most importantly not about “the Protestants”.
And Baptists even have more in common than the Baptists and Lutherans, let’s say.
The only real difference is the stress (as also already Publisher has pointed out above.)

Baptists believe in sola fide, sola gratia and sola scriptura. They believe in giving one’s life to Jesus and the Credo Baptism.
And don’t tell me the various Baptist groups you so often mention don’t! They do. For sure.
If I know emmigrated to the US and would join a Baptist Church there, the core believes would be exactely the same than in the Baptist Church I am visiting right now here in Austria.

I think what most Catholics forget to consider is that since Zwingli and Calvin the “Low Evangelical Churches” (To use an Anglican term here! and meaning Reformed and Presbyterian Churches as well as “born again Churches”; without SDA in this case.) are completely independent!
They have their believes in creeds and catechisms, but there is no “leadership” like among JWs, LDS, SDA and the Catholic Church. - The Anglican Church is similar, although they have dioceses and not single parishes. Some goes for the Orthodox Churches - (A Patriarch is a bishop, right? And not “a pope”?).

To Thomas 31: No wonder that you got to now so many different believe-systems if you church-hop in the “Protestant Jungle”. - What you apparently did.

 

[rinnie]

And that’s the “Catholic Problem” when Catholics speak about Protestants and their belief.
There are soooooooo many Protestant Churches, they have their creeds and catechisms and their “founders” (although they of course haven’t founded anything new!). But the important point is: They are all part of the One Church founded by Christ at Pentecost and have the same core beliefs. And that’s what Publisher wanted to say some posts above mine!!
If we talk about Baptists, as we do in this thread here, - please forget the other Protestant Churches.
We are talking about Baptists then! Not about SDA, nor Lutherans, nor Presbyterians,nor Anglicans nor any other Protestant Church and most importantly not about “the Protestants”.
And Baptists even have more in common than the Baptists and Lutherans, let’s say.
The only real difference is the stress (as also already Publisher has pointed out above.)

Baptists believe in sola fide, sola gratia and sola scriptura. They believe in giving one’s life to Jesus and the Credo Baptism.
And don’t tell me the various Baptist groups you so often mention don’t! They do. For sure.
If I know emmigrated to the US and would join a Baptist Church there, the core believes would be exactely the same than in the Baptist Church I am visiting right now here in Austria.

I think what most Catholics forget to consider is that since Zwingli and Calvin the “Low Evangelical Churches” (To use an Anglican term here! and meaning Reformed and Presbyterian Churches as well as “born again Churches”; without SDA in this case.) are completely independent!
They have their believes in creeds and catechisms, but there is no “leadership” like among JWs, LDS, SDA and the Catholic Church. - The Anglican Church is similar, although they have dioceses and not single parishes. Some goes for the Orthodox Churches - (A Patriarch is a bishop, right? And not “a pope”?).

To Thomas 31: No wonder that you got to now so many different believe-systems if you church-hop in the “Protestant Jungle”. - What you apparently did.

Sorry esdra but you aren’t even close. To begin with where are the Sacraments?

Where is the Pope?

Let me ask you this. Lets say I believe that I can get married and then divorced and then remarried and then divorced and then remarried.

That is MY RIGHT. I feel God says its okay. Now Who are you to tell me what is good for me or not? Where is your authority? I can go to any Protestant Church and ask that preacher where is YOUR authority . SHow me.

I can go to the RCC and they can say NO. I can say where is your Authority and they can say it came from Christ we have Apostolic Succession. They can prove it. How can I fight that.

Do you see my point?? THere is either ONE truth for everyone or many truths for everyone whats it gonna be?

So how can I say there is ONE truth but my truth is not your truth. That my truth is different from your truth and we have the same truth. How is that Possible.

Or is the word of God wrong? Is there many truths or as Christ stated there is ONE.

How can God say I can be married many times but yet my neighbor must be held bound. Do you not see the insanity in this.

 

[Esdra]

well, there again is a example of how churches, although they may be the same denomination, all can believe entirely different… I guess whatever the Pastor of that church believes, controls what that local church believes…

Couldn’t that be that this Presbyterian minister was simply a “black sheep”?
Do you really think that there are no black sheep among Catholic priests - even bishops?

Yes, I agree allowing gay marriages and gay clergy goes against God’s word and there are liberal Protestant Churches out there who propose that and many other things like allowing abortion etc. to be “liked in the world”.
But we needn’t and also shouldn’t be liked by the world. Because we, “are not of the world, even as I [Christ] am [is] not of the world.” (Jn 17:14).

 

[Esdra]

Sorry esdra but you aren’t even close. To begin with where are the Sacraments?

Where is the Pope?

Let me ask you this. Lets say I believe that I can get married and then divorced and then remarried and then divorced and then remarried.

That is MY RIGHT. I feel God says its okay. Now Who are you to tell me what is good for me or not? Where is your authority? I can go to any Protestant Church and ask that preacher where is YOUR authority . SHow me.

I can go to the RCC and they can say NO. I can say where is your Authority and they can say it came from Christ we have Apostolic Succession. They can prove it. How can I fight that.

Do you see my point?? THere is either ONE truth for everyone or many truths for everyone whats it gonna be?

So how can I say there is ONE truth but my truth is not your truth. That my truth is different from your truth and we have the same truth. How is that Possible.

Or is the word of God wrong? Is there many truths or as Christ stated there is ONE.

How can God say I can be married many times but yet my neighbor must be held bound. Do you not see the insanity in this.

I think we ALL here are aware that there ARE differences between Catholics and Baptists or/and other Protestants!

Did you actually get my point of my post?

I was not talking about the CC, in no single word, but only about Protestants and main focused on Baptists there…

Okay, you believe firmly that the CC is the one and true Church with Pope, Sacraments, Jesus being literally present in flesh and blood etc.
Good for you.

I believe in a “Protestant Church” that IS united by core or essential believes. The One Body of Christ.
And what I mean under essential I’ve written in a previous post here.

 

[Esdra]

rinnie:

Let me ask you this. Lets say I believe that I can get married and then divorced and then remarried and then divorced and then remarried.

That is MY RIGHT. I feel God says its okay. Now Who are you to tell me what is good for me or not? Where is your authority? I can go to any Protestant Church and ask that preacher where is YOUR authority . SHow me.

One more thing: You are really thinking wordly here! Isn’t that what Paul has warned us to do? (Don’t know at the moment which letter that was.)
If you really love Jesus, you will try your very, very best to keep His commandments, as He says in the New Testament.
You don’t need a Church that tells you explicitely that you are not allowed to remarry if you divorce.
You could live in a Pesbyterian Church which,as far as I know, are very lax concerning marriage, divorce etc, and nevertheless love Jesus and thus don’t divorce yourself.
See my point?

 

[rinnie]

I know you are not saying that all Catholic priests believe and teach exactly the same things…why would you hold pastors to a much more stringent disipline of belief than what your church holds it’s priests to? Since it is a fact that not all Catholic priests beleive and teach the same things…do you think this is an issue with the Catholic church since one priest to the next is teaching different things…are they separate churches…or just different views within the same church body?

Wow here Pub. Where does the Catholic Church differ in its teaching?

 

[rinnie]

One more thing: You are really thinking wordly here! Isn’t that what Paul has warned us to do? (Don’t know at the moment which letter that was.)
If you really love Jesus, you will try your very, very best to keep His commandments, as He says in the New Testament.
You don’t need a Church that tells you explicitely that you are not allowed to remarry if you divorce.
You could live in a Pesbyterian Church which,as far as I know, are very lax concerning marriage, divorce etc, and nevertheless love Jesus and thus don’t divorce yourself.
See my point?

No not at all. As you stated very laxed in this teaching does that not bother you. And if we have all of the answers on our own why do we even need the word of God. Why the Bible? Why the Church?

Why did Christ set things up the way he did then? Why the Apostles? We don’t need them to teach and preach correct? We know ths on our own correct?

 

[Esdra]

No not at all. As you stated very laxed in this teaching does that not bother you. And if we have all of the answers on our own why do we even need the word of God. Why the Bible? Why the Church?

Why did Christ set things up the way he did then? Why the Apostles? We don’t need them to teach and preach correct? We know ths on our own correct?

Oh god, I hate you when you play advocatus diabolus!

Okay, the Church: Some in the Church, although all are priests and theoretically everyone can preach, are given the gift of Preaching by the Holy Spirit. And these people preach the Word of God in services so that no “false doctrine” creeps in, but what is thought in the creeds and essentials of the Baptist faith (in my case.)
They Church is also needed to press forward, together with likeminded people who really love Jesus, in Christ.
Humans are social beings! Everyone helps everyone, and not only in questions of faith. So do I understand the First Catholic, if you want so, Church described in Acts. - And I’ve always done so.

You are with all your might trying to put this thread, although it’s not really about Catholic vs. Protestant in exactly such a thread, don’t you?!

 

[rinnie]

One more thing: You are really thinking wordly here! Isn’t that what Paul has warned us to do? (Don’t know at the moment which letter that was.)
If you really love Jesus, you will try your very, very best to keep His commandments, as He says in the New Testament.
You don’t need a Church that tells you explicitely that you are not allowed to remarry if you divorce.
You could live in a Pesbyterian Church which,as far as I know, are very lax concerning marriage, divorce etc, and nevertheless love Jesus and thus don’t divorce yourself.
See my point?

Also Esdra Why? Why do I have to live up to his commandments but others don"t. I hear it time after time as long as 2 people love eachother sex outside of marriage is fine. After all the urge came from God right?

Why can’t I let my son bring his girlfriend in my house and have sex outside of marriage? Her Mothers cool with it, her mom lives with her boyfriend. Who am I TO Judge right?

 

[rinnie]

Oh god, I hate you when you play advocatus diabolus!

Okay, the Church: Some in the Church, although all are priests and theoretically everyone can preach, are given the gift of Preaching by the Holy Spirit. And these people preach the Word of God in services so that no “false doctrine” creeps in, but what is thought in the creeds and essentials of the Baptist faith (in my case.)
They Church is also needed to press forward, together with likeminded people who really love Jesus, in Christ.
Humans are social beings! Everyone helps everyone, and not only in questions of faith. So do I understand the First Catholic, if you want so, Church described in Acts. - And I’ve always done so.

You are with all your might trying to put this thread, although it’s not really about Catholic vs. Protestant in exactly such a thread, don’t you?!

Isn’t the Baptist faith Protestant?

 

[Esdra]

Isn’t the Baptist faith Protestant?

It is, rinnie, it is.
But Protestant doesn’t mean a consistent faith like Orthodox or Catholic, do you understand what I since I’ve started posting in this thread (so actually the last two pages) tried to say?

 

[rinnie]

Oh god, I hate you when you play advocatus diabolus!

Okay, the Church: Some in the Church, although all are priests and theoretically everyone can preach, are given the gift of Preaching by the Holy Spirit. And these people preach the Word of God in services so that no “false doctrine” creeps in, but what is thought in the creeds and essentials of the Baptist faith (in my case.)
They Church is also needed to press forward, together with likeminded people who really love Jesus, in Christ.
Humans are social beings! Everyone helps everyone, and not only in questions of faith. So do I understand the First Catholic, if you want so, Church described in Acts. - And I’ve always done so.

You are with all your might trying to put this thread, although it’s not really about Catholic vs. Protestant in exactly such a thread, don’t you?!

Please do not get me wrong we ALL love Christ. That has nothing to do with ONE truth. Do you not think that the girls Mother I mentioned loves Christ just as much as I do?

I am not questioning love for Christ My question is why do I have to obey all the commands and others don’t

 

[Esdra]

Also Esdra Why? Why do I have to live up to his commandments but others don"t. I hear it time after time as long as 2 people love eachother sex outside of marriage is fine. After all the urge came from God right?

Why can’t I let my son bring his girlfriend in my house and have sex outside of marriage? Her Mothers cool with it, her mom lives with her boyfriend. Who am I TO Judge right?

At the moment I don’t know if it explicitely says in the Bible or if it is one of the few Traditions the Baptist Church holds to.
I’ve read on a (Protestant) homepage (don’t know which denomination it was) that it isn’t clearly defined in the Bible, because marriage wasn’t defined as clearly as it is now. - So it’s probably more Tradition.