Questions my baptist friend had about the catholic faith

[rinnie]

It is, rinnie, it is.
But Protestant doesn’t mean a consistent faith like Orthodox or Catholic, do you understand what I since I’ve started posting in this thread (so actually the last two pages) tried to say?

Actually Esdra I just came in on this. But is not the true faith and the word of God always consistent.

 

[Esdra]

Please do not get me wrong we ALL love Christ. That has nothing to do with ONE truth. Do you not think that the girls Mother I mentioned loves Christ just as much as I do?

I am not questioning love for Christ My question is why do I have to obey all the commands and others don’t

ALL love Christ

→ Really? Sadly I can’t say that. Most people don’t want to know anything about Christ!

I don’t know. If she is a practicing Christian, definitely. But there are MANY non-practicing Christians out there and even more who willingly reject Christ!

Which commandments do I as a Baptist don’t have to obey, you do have to? - Or this fictive woman you mentioned has to?

 

[Esdra]

Actually Esdra I just came in on this. But is not the true faith and the word of God always consistent.

From my point of view it is. Jesus is our Saviour, our Messiah, our Christ who saved us from our sins. Without Jesus we would need to parish because God can’t forgive our sins because he is a just and Holy God. But He loved us so much that he gave His only son to bear our sins and he took them all to the cross and died for us. Now, if we accept Christ (no matter in which way, either by Baptism, or by a personal prayer), we can partake on Salvation. These are the core believes, every Christian, no matter which denominations believes in. And the Word of God, the Holy Bible, is a manual how we should live our lives, the Old, as well as the New Testament. And it deserves thorough studying.
The rest are “details”. And we humans really like to quarrel and we do always quarrel about these details. Instead of worshipping our God and Lord together. For he deserves our praise!

 

[rinnie]

At the moment I don’t know if it explicitely says in the Bible or if it is one of the few Traditions the Baptist Church holds to.
I’ve read on a (Protestant) homepage (don’t know which denomination it was) that it isn’t clearly defined in the Bible, because marriage wasn’t defined as clearly as it is now. - So it’s probably more Tradition.

Esdra Marriage was defined in the RCC forever. Christ set the record straight himself for that matter.

He was quite clear when he said whoever divorces his wife and marry’s another commits Adultery. How much more clear can that be?

 

[rinnie]

From my point of view it is. Jesus is our Saviour, our Messiah, our Christ who saved us from our sins. Without Jesus we would need to parish because God can’t forgive our sins because he is a just and Holy God. But He loved us so much that he gave His only son to bear our sins and he took them all to the cross and died for us. Now, if we accept Christ (no matter in which way, either by Baptism, or by a personal prayer), we can partake on Salvation. These are the core believes, every Christian, no matter which denominations believes in. And the Word of God, the Holy Bible, is a manual how we should live our lives, the Old, as well as the New Testament. And it deserves thorough studying.
The rest are “details”. And we humans really like to quarrel and we do always quarrel about these details. Instead of worshipping our God and Lord together. For he deserves our praise!

Sorry but I beg to differ. The RCC don’t buy it. Not one that knows his or hers faith.

You must be Baptised. Where does the bible say you are saved by EITHER baptism OR personal Prayer. I don’t believe 99% of protestants would even buy that one.

Where does a true practicing RC agree that we do not need confession for the forgivness of sins.

Not Need the Sacrament of Marriage to be joined together in the eyes of God in his Church.

Where do we believe that we do not need the Eucharist to have eternal life.

How can we possibly worship together when one Accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as the living God in the Eucharist and the other denys Christ in the Eucharist. Its never going to happen.

 

[rinnie]

→ Really? Sadly I can’t say that. Most people don’t want to know anything about Christ!

I don’t know. If she is a practicing Christian, definitely. But there are MANY non-practicing Christians out there and even more who willingly reject Christ!

Which commandments do I as a Baptist don’t have to obey, you do have to? - Or this fictive woman you mentioned has to?

Okay she is living with her boyfriend outside of marriage and having sex? What does your Church say to that? She does not feel she is doing anything wrong?

 

[Esdra]

Esdra Marriage was defined in the RCC forever. Christ set the record straight himself for that matter.

He was quite clear when he said whoever divorces his wife and marry’s another commits Adultery. How much more clear can that be?

Yes, you are right, in the zeal of the “battle” I completely forgot about that verse.
So divorce is most definitely prohibited.

But actually we were talking about pre-matrial sex, right?
And I was referring to that with the mentioning of that website which said that it’s not really clear.
What they, on that homepage ment, was that marriage in the OT and 2000 years ago among the Jews meant something different than today, if I remember correctly.

 

[rinnie]

Yes, you are right, in the zeal of the “battle” I completely forgot about that verse.
So divorce is most definitely prohibited.

But actually we were talking about pre-matrial sex, right?
And I was referring to that with the mentioning of that website which said that it’s not really clear.
What they, on that homepage ment, was that marriage in the OT and 2000 years ago among the Jews meant something different than today, if I remember correctly.

Esdra where did Jesus fulfilling the O.T change the word of God. The commands are still the same. The word of God is still the same.

Jesus fulfilled the scripture as far as the comming of Christ. He changed the Old Law but he never changed the word of God. There is not a scripture in the N.T that states that you can now live together without the Sacrament of Marriage. If Jesus changed his own word I would love to see it.

 

[Esdra]

Sorry but I beg to differ. The RCC don’t buy it. Not one that knows his or hers faith.

You must be Baptised. Where does the bible say you are saved by EITHER baptism OR personal Prayer. I don’t believe 99% of protestants would even buy that one.

Mhm, either I got it wrong or my pastor really said that Baptism is not really necessary for salvation, but accepting Jesus as your Saviour is. ?!
And you think Baptists and similar Churches (like Anabaptists, Brethern or Pentecostals) only make up 1% of the whole Protestants?! I think it’s more.

Where does a true practicing RC agree that we do not need confession for the forgivness of sins.

A true practicing Catholic won’t, I agree. But for me these are exactly those “details” I’ve written above.

Not Need the Sacrament of Marriage to be joined together in the eyes of God in his Church.

Where do we believe that we do not need the Eucharist to have eternal life.

All Protestants in the Reformed Tradition believe that the Eucharist is not needed to have eternal life. The Leuenberg Agreement (which was set up to make it possible that Lutherans and Reformed Christians have the possibility for full altar and sacrament union) formulates it like this:

QUOTE

1. b) The Lord’s Supper
   In the Lord’s Supper the risen Jesus Christ imparts himself in his body and blood, given up for all, through his word of promise with bread and wine. He thereby grants us forgiveness of sins
   and sets us free for a new life of faith. He enables us to experience anew that we are members of His body. He strengthens us for service to all men.

END QUOTE

How can we possibly worship together when one Accepts the Lord Jesus Christ as the living God in the Eucharist and the other denys Christ in the Eucharist. Its never going to happen.

See above. Apparently it does work in the Reformed Church and the Lutheran Church in Austria, as well as in Germany.

 

[Esdra]

Esdra where did Jesus fulfilling the O.T change the word of God. The commands are still the same. The word of God is still the same.

Jesus fulfilled the scripture as far as the comming of Christ. He changed the Old Law but he never changed the word of God. There is not a scripture in the N.T that states that you can now live together without the Sacrament of Marriage. If Jesus changed his own word I would love to see it.

First, there is no single verse in the NT (and also not in the OT) that talks about the SACRAMENT of marriage.
Is there a verse in the Holy Bible that states that one must be married to have sex? I know of not one. But I am willing to learn, if you show me one.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

=holtster15;7943071]While I was talking to a friend of mine yesterday, we got on the topic of religion and catholicism. He had alot of questions and I answered most of them. But there where some that I wasn’t sure about so I told him to send me the questions he had and I would find them out and get back to him as soon as possible. This is what he sent me, if you could help me out that would be great, thanks.

Will Try as a lot of my family are Baptist I have a long history of their questions.

How could Mary remain a virgin in light of Luke 8:19, Mark 3:31, Matthew 12:46, and Matthew 13:55, 56?

This word for brother etc in the Greek that it was written means close reletive. It does not mean nessicarily a sibling it also is used for cousin nephew niece etc…

Why do we pray to Saints and Mary to intercede for us? The Bible tells us to pray in the name of Jesus, and He will intercede for us as he sits at the right hand of the Father. Clearly, this is possible because Jesus is NOT dead, He is God, and He is omnipotent. He can hear all our prayers. Yet, dead Saints and Mary are mere humans. They are not even as powerful as angels, (the Bible tells us that humans were made a little lower than the angels). To pray to these dead ancestors is to assert that they can hear all our prayers and “watch over us”, which is not Biblically supported in any way. In fact, when Jesus died and the Temple curtain was torn in two, revealing the Holy of Holies, it symbolized our direct access to God. We no longer need anyone to intercede for us, because Jesus does so now instead of the High Priest. Jesus IS the High Priest.

God is the god of the Liveing not the Dead there fore those that have pasted on and stand before God are not dead But living in the presents of God. Just as those of us still hear on earth pray for one another we ask those that have gone on to Heaven to pray for us as well.

Catholics believe that Communion turns into the actually Body and Blood of Christ upon consumption. Not only does the Bible condemn cannibalism, but Jesus’ favoritism towards parables and metaphors means that his words spoken at the Last Supper should not be taken literally, as the context does not support doing so. How do you explain this interpretation then?

I every case of Christ teaching with useing a parbaly he made it quite clear that he was doing so yet when teaching on the matter of to eating his flesh and drinking his blood he did not correct anyone that toke him literally, he even let people leave that took him literually. John 6
Also St Paul writes that those that are receiveing in a unworthy state are bring sickness and death upon themselve. how could that be if it was but a symbol?

How do you defend the Catholic confessional system? If Jesus’ death forgives us of our sins and gave us direct access to God, why should anyone confess their sins to anyone other than God? Why else did the Temple curtain tear but to demonstrate this truth?..

Christ Death make it possibble for us to receive forgiveness It does not impart automatic forgiveness on all. Christ told the apostels to go forth and forgive sins. He gave them to power to forgive people sins this have been passed on. The form of the sacarment has changed. In the 1st few centuries it was a Public cenfession and you your only able to receive it once. Also the penence was public. I will take the system the way we have it now. As far as direct did not christ say that no one come to the Father but through the Son. Christ gave us the Sacraments and the Apostels and their successors have placed there implamentation.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Is there a verse in the Holy Bible that states that one must be married to have sex? I know of not one. But I am willing to learn, if you show me one.

Really, you find no were in scripture that forbids sex outside of marriage?

 

[rinnie]

Mhm, either I got it wrong or my pastor really said that Baptism is not really necessary for salvation, but accepting Jesus as your Saviour is. ?!
And you think Baptists and similar Churches (like Anabaptists, Brethern or Pentecostals) only make up 1% of the whole Protestants?! I think it’s more.

A true practicing Catholic won’t, I agree. But for me these are exactly those “details” I’ve written above.

All Protestants in the Reformed Tradition believe that the Eucharist is not needed to have eternal life. The Leuenberg Agreement (which was set up to make it possible that Lutherans and Reformed Christians have the possibility for full altar and sacrament union) formulates it like this:

QUOTE

1. b) The Lord’s Supper
   In the Lord’s Supper the risen Jesus Christ imparts himself in his body and blood, given up for all, through his word of promise with bread and wine. He thereby grants us forgiveness of sins
   and sets us free for a new life of faith. He enables us to experience anew that we are members of His body. He strengthens us for service to all men.

END QUOTE

See above. Apparently it does work in the Reformed Church and the Lutheran Church in Austria, as well as in Germany.

I am not asking about Protestant Church’s Esdra. You tell me this. How can a Priest possibly let someone go in front of the Church knowing that do not have the Sacraments of Baptism, Communion and Confession and let them condemn themself in front of God, and then turn around and face God by disobeying his commands.

When you show me how that is possible then you can show me how Protestants can come together into one Communion with Christ.

Unless you are saying that when a Priest stands before God and take the Sacrament of Holy Orders he is not bound to them.

 

[rinnie]

First, there is no single verse in the NT (and also not in the OT) that talks about the SACRAMENT of marriage.
Is there a verse in the Holy Bible that states that one must be married to have sex? I know of not one. But I am willing to learn, if you show me one.

Oh Esdra Please. What is your Church teaching you. Is this not why we are to go to Church to learn the truth. Why does your church not teach this? If they did would you not indeed know. Do you see now Esdra why we need the RCC SO MUCH.

Here is it Esdra 1 Cor 6:13 The body is not for immorality but for the Lord and the Lord is for the body.:yup:

You could ask any Priest on any Sunday Esdra and they would tell you this is the teaching of Christ. Its their JOB!!

 

[rinnie]

First, there is no single verse in the NT (and also not in the OT) that talks about the SACRAMENT of marriage.
Is there a verse in the Holy Bible that states that one must be married to have sex? I know of not one. But I am willing to learn, if you show me one.

Oh yes there is Esdra. Eph. 5:22-23

By the way Esdra in case you do not know. A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace.

That is why a marriage is performed outward for all to see. Just like the Sacrament of Baptism something done Outward.

 

[rinnie]

Really, you find no were in scripture that forbids sex outside of marriage?

This is so sad isn’t it.

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

This is so sad isn’t it.

Well, It kinda goes against everything I have ever heard or read and really would make you have to wonder why anyone would get married to begin with if its not in the bible that sex outside of marrigae is wrong and a sin.

 

[Erich]

Is there a verse in the Holy Bible that states that one must be married to have sex? I know of not one. But I am willing to learn, if you show me one.

Well, strictly speaking, there isn’t one. There are several. Here are three:

1 Cor. 6:9 – Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind,

1 Cor. 7:2 – Nevertheless, to avoid fornication, let every man have his own wife, and let every woman have her own husband.

Gal. 5:19 – Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are these; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,…

 

[Erich]

I believe in a “Protestant Church” that IS united by core or essential believes. The One Body of Christ.
And what I mean under essential I’ve written in a previous post here.

And, as I’ve written in a previous post here,

As Disunity on Essentials points out,One problem with this argument is that Protestant churches have no effective method of determining which beliefs constitute essentials and which do not. The absence of a functional magisterium leaves each group of Protestants to decide for itself what beliefs are essential. If one group decides that a particular doctrine is essential or non-essential, then other groups have no effective way of refuting it. They could, of course, appeal to Scripture, but presumably the interpretation of the relevant passages is under dispute, and Scripture does not tell us which of its teachings are essential and which are not.

Good tests of practical unity in Protestant churches are: Whom do they let join? Whom do they let preach? Whom do they let pastor? If a particular congregation, as a matter of policy, will not let an individual with a particular belief join its fellowship, preach from its pulpits, or serve as a pastor in one of its churches, then this belief is considered an essential for unity. When these tests are applied, one can see that there is a great deal of practical disunity among Protestant churches—a disunity that goes far beyond the “essentials” named by Protestant apologists.

For example, for non-Lutherans, a good test would be: Could Martin Luther pastor your church, given his beliefs in things like baptismal regeneration, infant baptism, high predestination, and the Real Presence? The problem is much more general than Luther, however. Pastors from one Protestant tradition typically are not allowed to serve as pastors in Protestant churches of other traditions. A Lutheran’s belief in baptismal regeneration will prevent him from pastoring a Calvinist church, a Calvinist’s belief in high predestination will prevent him from pastoring a Methodist church, a Methodist’s belief in infant baptism will prevent him from pastoring a Baptist church, and so on.

Perhaps the most fundamental problem for users of the “unity in essentials” argument is the fact that they disagree on the meaning of the distinctively Protestant essentials on which they claim to be united: the slogans “faith alone” and “Scripture alone” (sola fide and sola scriptura).
…

 

[Esdra]

Oh yes there is Esdra. Eph. 5:22-23

By the way Esdra in case you do not know. A Sacrament is an outward sign instituted by Christ to give Grace.

That is why a marriage is performed outward for all to see. Just like the Sacrament of Baptism something done Outward.

Well, actually I find your quote before form 1 Cor. better than this one here…
For me it doesn’t say anything concerning marriage and sex outside thereof.

By the way, this is the most hated verse (besides that women have to be silent in a service 1 Cor 14:34) by feminists!