Questions on Protestant Salvation

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As Michael stated earlier, if Faith is believing then the devil has faith because he believes in Christ. In that line of thought, Satan “could be saved” but we know that not to be true. Yes you are so right that we must LIVE our faith. I am a firm believer in having faith and expressing that faith as Christ command us. Our faith should and will produce fruit if we live that faith to the fullness. Thanks for posting!
Yes, but to more directly address the question, we do all the things that the CC tells us to do because we believe that she alone is the Church Jesus established to convey His message, to proclaim His commands, so to speak. If a person hasn’t yet come to realize this fact, this need for a concrete, visible historical connection to the beginnings of our faith, and recognized the truth of the doctrines she proposes to us, then we can pray that God will lead them further into truth and out of ignorance. He’s the judge, in the end, of how well they’ve responded to the grace they’ve been given. For our part we also must proceed according to our own, fuller knowledge of the truth we’ve been blest with.
 
If you believe in Jesus Christ and have asked Him to come into your life and forgive your sins then you are saved!
No, you are justified, not saved.

Otherwise Paul would have been a fool to write: run as to win the prize, and Christ, our Lord, would not have said: not all who call me Lord will enter the Kingdom, but only those who do my Father’s will. Also, Christ would have been doing something quite irrational when, after teaching us to pray forgive us our sins, He came back after His glorious resurrection to the Apostles (and only to them) and the very first thing He did was to give them the Holy Spirit and tell them: “as the Father had sent me, so I send you. Whosoever sins you forgive, they are forgiven. Whosoever sins you retain, they are retained”.

Sure, Luther had an easy time calling the epistle of James an “epistle of straw”, but it is still in the Holy Bible and it still says: “Don’t you know, vain man, that faith apart from works is dead? Show me your faith without works, and I shall show you my faith from my works.” Sola fide is such a poor and fallacious heresy, that it has been repeatedly disproved from Scripture and from common sense for the past 500 years, and only ignorance of the refusals can justify that some still accept it as sound.
You may be right in some aspects. But I can’t imagine living with the fear of not going to heaven because you haven’t made it to confession in a while. I do understand that it is freeing to admit your sins to someone but I also know that most of us are guilty of some pretty bad things that we would never admit to anyone other than Jesus!
Only the priests were allowed to enter and then would come out and absolve the people of their sins. When this curtains was torn in two, God was saying it is finished! Jesus was the final mediator between us and God. We can now go directly to Him to repent.
Well, this shows a lack of understanding of the Sacrament of Reconciliation. Because, see, the priest, by virtue of Holy Orders, act in the person of Christ the Head, therefore it is to Jesus Christ himself that we confess, and it is Jesus Christ whom says: “I absolve you from your sins in the name of the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit”. For only God can absolve sins, and there are no individual priests, but one High Priest forever, and a holy people who by baptism share in the royal, priestly, and prophetic office of Christ - however, the priestly office is further divided into the ordinary and the ministerial, for not all of the disciples were apostles, and only the apostles laid their hands on those disciples who would succeed them.
It is the same priest, Christ Jesus, whose sacred person his minister truly represents. Now the minister, by reason of the sacerdotal consecration which he has received, is truly made like to the high priest and possesses the authority to act in the power and place of the person of Christ himself.
Through the ordained ministry, especially that of bishops and priests, the presence of Christ as head of the Church is made visible in the midst of the community of believers. In the beautiful expression of St. Ignatius of Antioch, the bishop is typos tou Patros: he is like the living image of God the Father.
Maybe my view is a bit small but the Catholics that I know have always laughed when discussing confession because they have never told the priest their “real” sins.
A Catholic who has gone to the Sacrament of Reconciliation and willfully omitted or refrained from confessing a mortal sin commits a grave sin of sacrilege which, if carried over for a long time, may bring over an ipso facto excommunication, as far as I know.

@aidanbradypop You are very welcome. I tend to sound a bit harsh. However, in the spirit of true ecumenism, I am absolutely tolerant of the people, and absolutely intolerant of the erroneous aspects of the doctrine. I don’t claim to speak the truth, but I have the duty to point out the error, that he who truly loves Christ may follow His will, and not the will of the men who crafted the errors, and may perhaps return to full communion with the Church created by divine will and not by work of human hands.
 
You may be right in some aspects. But I can’t imagine living with the fear of not going to heaven because you haven’t made it to confession in a while. I do understand that it is freeing to admit your sins to someone but I also know that most of us are guilty of some pretty bad things that we would never admit to anyone other than Jesus! 🙂 Maybe my view is a bit small but the Catholics that I know have always laughed when discussing confession because they have never told the priest their “real” sins.

On another note, thank you for being so kind to me in your response! My Dad’s family is Catholic along with all my cousins, the school I went to growing up, and now my husband’s family. All I have ever felt is strong tension between our beliefs. I feel like my beliefs are always discounted because I’m a “heathen Protestant”. It’s frustrating because Jesus is everything to me. He is the only reason I’m where I am today. I love Him so much and it breaks my heart and angers me at the same time that we as the body of Christ, cannot get along. Rarely can I have good conversations about the differences in our beliefs because both sides are so passionate. But anyway, I guess I was expecting heated remarks in response to my post, so thank you for being kind.
Cabo30…

Informed Catholics don’t constantly live in fear of their Mortal Sins. When we commit one, we immediately confess to Christ AND tell Christ we also know it is his desire & teaching that we ALSO, promptly visit our Priests, and confess to them to receive absolution & receive penance from them.
Once we promise Christ this, we must keep it, and see his Priest…
and follow thru with our INTENTIONS. GOD, knows our hearts & true intentions …so we are to promptly act in accordance with what we agree to do. Having prayed thusly to Christ, we are allowed an appropriate amount of time to make confession, before Christ would hold that Mortal Sin against us, and deny us the Kingdom.
 
Hey Cabo! I’m soooo sorry you get that resentment from my catholic brothers and sisters! I am sooo sorry! I will say a prayer today that they will change their hearts.

The church teaches that anyone who is validly baptized IS a part of the catholic church in a sense …(catholic simply means : universal). You like ALL your members of your family around you ARE a part of the church through baptism and are ALL on different levels about knowing the doctrines and such…so please don’t feel completly cut off or “heathen” because we are ALL on different levels of spiritual growth and I bet if I quized some of your loved ones…they would have lots of issues/misconceptions of what the church teaches! The only BIG difference between you and them…is that they participate in the catholic sacraments (which sometimes is judgement on them if they do so unworthily or without proper knowledge).

So don’t feel too bad.

I love the protestants…lol, Although we disagree on some doctrinal issues I find many of you in love with Jesus (which is a sad testament to many of us catholics…although there are MANY of us that are awsome in that respect as well).

now in regards to worrying about going to confession:

It says that we are to daily “work out our salvation with fear and trembling” lol. As I stated before, its not necessary to go to confession to be forgiven of sin…it’s just the ordinary way we catholics do because it was instituted by Christ and because…somethings are true whether we CHOOSE to believe in them or not…no matter how scary they are (and yes, eternal seperation from God is VERY scary).

Yes…you don’t want to admit serious things to a stranger… but I think that’s part of the awsomeness of confession! It causes you to reach out in trust by going through the act of confession AND helps u realize your guilt as your walking to the confessional (I know my hands are always sweaty as I approach the priest) . … i think it’s all part of the process Jesus instituted cause He knows what we need.

ANd yes…you’re unfortunatly right. Many catholics don’t take it seriously or choose not to accept it at all! It’s very sad. What a special gift God has given us …and what we catholics do to many of His gifts…shame!

But …that STILL does not take away from the fact that Christ instituted it and instituted it for us to use it!

On a personal note…I can tell you that confession has changed my life!

God bless you in your Journey with Jesus OUR brother! Where He leads you and what truths He shows you in your state in your life that you are able to come to understand …follow with a sincere heart and your salvation can be assured just like any catholic.

I guarentee you there are not only catholics and protestants in heaven…but also in hell.

One quick joke:

An interfaith religious bus falls off a cliff and everyone dies… they go up and meet st. peter who gives them a tour…“over here is the angels choir rehersal are” … " this space is where we look down at earth" …“this is our worship space” …"…that building is where we play board games together"…peter motions with a finger to the mouth for everyone to be very quiet…and the group tip-toes passed a beutiful building…after they pass…st. pete continues the tour …“and that’s where we take gifts for jesus” and …one guy in the tour says: “Whoah…what’s that building we just passed over there ???” Peter says: “oh, that’s where all the catholics hang out…they think they’re the only ones up here”

lol

The church teaches god wishes “all men to be saved” and is able to deal with people through no fault of their own who do no have the fullness of the faith revealed by God. However, if you feel something is true or you are still searching for more…you must follow your conscience.

This journey of faith we’re all in together!

Michael
Hahaha! Ahh, that joke made me laugh. Thanks again! I agree with you and now I feel really bad that my original post was so harsh. (“A slap in the face to Jesus”?? Was that really necessary Carin?). So I’m going to go to confession now. Lol

On another random note, I just had 2 Jehovah’s witnesses stop by my house and talk to me for the first time ever. Talk about doctrinal differences! Haha. I think the Holy Spirit is trying to stir something in my heart today. 🙂

God Bless You!
 
I want to throw my two cents in as a former protestant. I know many protestants who, Though they know what the Catholic church teaches, do not believe it. And sincerly believe faith alone saves. I think there is a difference between rejecting the Catholic truth (meaning you know it is true), and believing that it is not true. Just because someone has heard the truth and determines it’s not the truth, doesn’t mean they have rejected it. I know protestants who truely love Jesus and can’t wait until they can live with him for eternity. Also, they do his will Feeding the poor and such, out of love for him. I can’t imagine they will be held accountable for "rejecting’ the truth. When, if they did realize it was the truth, they would have imbraced it. They will, however, probably spend a long “time” in purgatory until they do accept it. That is why I give my indulgences ,often times, to the protesrtants in purgatory. As I believe there are many, and they have no one to pray for them.
I read once that the confessional is the only way ,besides perfect contrition, that we know of to get our sins forgiven. It went on to say that God is not bound to the sacrament he instituted. He can forgive whom ever he wants, for any reason.
 
I want to throw my two cents in as a former protestant. I know many protestants who, Though they know what the Catholic church teaches, do not believe it and sincerly believe faith alone saves. I think there is a difference between rejecting the Catholic truth (meaning you know it is true), and believing that it is not true. Just because someone has heard the truth and determines it’s not the truth, doesn’t mean they have rejected it. I know protestants who truely love Jesus and can’t wait until they can live with him for eternity. Also they do his will. Feeding the poor and such, out of love for him. I can’t imagine they will be held accountable for "rejecting’ the truth. When, if they did realize it was the truth, they would have imbraced it. They will, however, probably spend a long “time” in purgatory until they do accept it. That is why I give my indulgences , many times, to the protesrtants in purgatory. As I believe there are many, and they have no one to pray for them.
I read once that the confessional is the only way ,besides perfect contrition, that we know of to get our sins forgiven. But God is not bound to the sacrament he instituted. He can forgive whom ever he wants, for any reason.
Very nice! Thank you
 
Anyone–Catholics or non Catholics can mortally sin–even someone who has never heard of Jesus or the bible can mortally sin because they can do what is wrong against the natural law which is written on ALL human hearts.

If one dies unrepentant in the state of mortal sin they go to Hell period! That goes for everyone! Invincible ignorance of all the truths of the Catholic faith will not save if one breaks the natural law and dies unrepentant!

Invincibly ignorant protestants who die in a state of grace will be saved. Invincibly ignorant Protestants who die unrepentant after committing mortal sin by breaking the natural law which is written on ALL human hearts will not be saved period!

This means we must never cease to evangelize ALL the world with ALL the fullness of truth that subsists in the Catholic Church.

It also means that we should be humbled with a right fear of God and work out our own salvation with fear and trembling as we evangelize others.

But that is only part of the truth. Jesus is merciful. No one will unfairly be cast into Hell.

Jesus will judge perfectly every human that ever lived on what they did KNOW–on how well they did or did not know the Catholic faith and how well they did or did not know the natural law in all instances.

Anyone who is repentant will not die in a state of mortal sin.

Anyone who isn’t repentant after committing mortal sin will go to Hell.
 
very good question asked and very good answers given, I am 64 and was brought up in a Catholic home with good parents and when young we prayed the rosary together, when i was 16 i met a protestant,his family was Pentecostal although my friend wast at the time, slowly I was not doing Catholic things such as confession and Mass, i married him when i was 20 and we had 3 children and the first 2 i came home to nb to have them baptized but not let my husband know as he wld have been awful mad and he was so when he found out but at that time I was in the Pentecostal church and reading and believing in the Bible, I attended that church many years and my youngest was baptized there and my oldest son became an evangelist but now today my oldest son is so far from God and my other two children dont attend church anywhere or not much, I married a good Catholic man three years ago and I attend the church with him but I pray to Jesus and I ask Jesus to forgive me and I read and believe in the word of God, my husband has asked me once to go to confession and i did so—the point I am wanting to make is “we all are God’s children” we all are brothers and sisters although we havent met, there wont be just Catholic or Pentecostal that make it to heaven, the Pentecostal church i miss but they disappointed me in regards to things such as if you cut your hair or wear pants and they gossiped about me when in a hard time so I go to church and I ask God to show me because I dont know things, I feel if we trust in His word and walk straight ahead and ask for forgiveness is what He wants us to do, we arent supposed to have all the answers but we are supposed to watch and pray and when we pray we usually have a lot of battles to fight as when we are sincere then satan steps in but in Jesus name we are saved,its in His name.
 
very good question asked and very good answers given, I am 64 and was brought up in a Catholic home with good parents and when young we prayed the rosary together, when i was 16 i met a protestant,his family was Pentecostal although my friend wast at the time, slowly I was not doing Catholic things such as confession and Mass, i married him when i was 20 and we had 3 children and the first 2 i came home to nb to have them baptized but not let my husband know as he wld have been awful mad and he was so when he found out but at that time I was in the Pentecostal church and reading and believing in the Bible, I attended that church many years and my youngest was baptized there and my oldest son became an evangelist but now today my oldest son is so far from God and my other two children dont attend church anywhere or not much, I married a good Catholic man three years ago and I attend the church with him but I pray to Jesus and I ask Jesus to forgive me and I read and believe in the word of God, my husband has asked me once to go to confession and i did so—the point I am wanting to make is “we all are God’s children” we all are brothers and sisters although we havent met, there wont be just Catholic or Pentecostal that make it to heaven, the Pentecostal church i miss but they disappointed me in regards to things such as if you cut your hair or wear pants and they gossiped about me when in a hard time so I go to church and I ask God to show me because I dont know things, I feel if we trust in His word and walk straight ahead and ask for forgiveness is what He wants us to do, we arent supposed to have all the answers but we are supposed to watch and pray and when we pray we usually have a lot of battles to fight as when we are sincere then satan steps in but in Jesus name we are saved,its in His name.
Thanks so much Peggy for adding your thought! I too am a Bible reading and believing Catholic as I am sure many more are! I am so sorry you have had a rough road along the way but so very thankful that you have found your way back to Christ’s Church!
 
He believes in being “saved” and “one saved always saved.”
Aidan -

To add 2 cents… I just asked this question on a thread in the non-Catholics section:

Where in the early Church, did the Church teach and practice OSAS?

As CopticChristian commented in the same thread following my post, OSAS is not seen in the Deposit of Faith. As such, it is a new Gospel which we are warned not to follow. It goes against the call to hold fast to what you have been taught, both by word and by what has been written. You can follow the post here if interested. I referenced two scripture quotes that explicitly state that one can be “cut off” and taken out of the “Book of Life”. OSAS is a 17th century invention of man and is dangerous to the soul.

Perhaps your friend can explain to you when in history OSAS was first taught, who taught it and why they view this authority greater than that of the Church?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=746277
 
Aidan -

To add 2 cents… I just asked this question on a thread in the non-Catholics section:

Where in the early Church, did the Church teach and practice OSAS?

As CopticChristian commented in the same thread following my post, OSAS is not seen in the Deposit of Faith. As such, it is a new Gospel which we are warned not to follow. It goes against the call to hold fast to what you have been taught, both by word and by what has been written. You can follow the post here if interested. I referenced two scripture quotes that explicitly state that one can be “cut off” and taken out of the “Book of Life”. OSAS is a 17th century invention of man and is dangerous to the soul.

Perhaps your friend can explain to you when in history OSAS was first taught, who taught it and why they view this authority greater than that of the Church?

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=746277
Thanks for adding your 2 cents lol. You brought up some wonderful questions. My friend, who was Lutheran then converted to Baptst, believes OSAS is biblical. Now when someone believes that faithfully, it makes it hard to point out scripture that actually speaks against it. He believes in “faith alone” doctrine but says that a person can lose their faith. So I asked that if a person lost their faith, are they still saved? His answer was yes. Why I asked? He stated that because once you accept Christ as Lord (Lordship salvation) he will never depart from you even when you backslide. It is basically a “feel good theology” that has not biblical bases, but you can only talk to a brick wall for so long before you start to look silly lol.
 
I emphasized those words to make a point. We are saved because Jesus died on the cross for our sins. He paid the ultimate penalty once and for all for everyone who believes. That is it. We can not earn our salvation by going to church or doing anything else that might constitute as “good works”. If you believe in Jesus Christ and have asked Him to come into your life and forgive your sins then you are saved! Now, you can choose to walk away from that but ultimately if you accept it, you are going to heaven.
Your position honestly is not too far from the Catholic viewpoint. Once you have been baptized, if you commit no mortal sins (in effect choose to walk away from Him, which is what sin is), then you will be saved and go to Heaven.

I think we can both agree that Christians that refuse to take care of their families, those that refuse to help the poor, clothe the naked, visit those in prison, hurt others, become sexually impure, etc, those Christians who refuse to do these actions are refusing to follow Christ’s commands. And Christ said that if you love Him, you will follow His commands.

And remember that whenever the final judgement is mentioned in Scripture, how does it say that we will be judged. In every case, it is based upon our ACTIONS.

So when we sin, when we disobey Christ, when we do wrong, what are we to do? Well we are to turn our hearts back to Christ, to repent, but ALSO, follow through on this, and show with our actions that we wish to be reconciled with God. We do this through Confession.

God bless and welcome to the CAF forums!
 
So I was in bed last night and a thought came to mind that kept me awake until 2am. I will run it by everyone and would love some feedback. Please be mindful of others.

As Catholics, we are told that we must confess our sins to a priest so that we may be forgiven. If we do not and die with mortal sin unconfessed, we do not inherit the Kingdom of God and we are lost in our sins. We are told that we must attend Mass every Sunday and if we do not then we sin. We have many beliefs and doctrine that effect our salvation and we humbly and faithful ( I hope and pray we do) submit to the will of God and carry them out. So a Protestant friend of mine asked me the other day, “If Catholics believe the must do all these things in order to go to Heaven, will a Protestant go to heaven if the do not repent to a priest?”

He believes in being “saved” and “one saved always saved.” Confession to a priest is like a sin to them lol, so where does that actually leave Protestants? I know many Popes have stated that our Protestant brethen can go to Heaven, but exactly how is that true? I know the tract about if they are ignorant of the Catholic Church and Her teachings, but what if they know of the teachings of the Church and reject them? He is a faithful Lutheran and reject everything the Catholic Church stands for. He believes his faith in Christ will save him. Does it? If so then why must we (Catholics) confess, attend mass and do all the things we are called to do by Christ and His Church in order to gain His Grace and salvation. Make sense or am I thinking to much into it? 😛
Off topic, but just for clarity:
Lutherans **do not reject everything the Catholic Church stands for.
Lutherans
do **believe in confession to a priest/pastor/ confessor.
Lutherans reject the Calvinist derivative known as OSAS.

Carry on,
Jon
 
I disagree. I know, you’re shocked. 🙂 But what then of the man who hung next to Jesus on the cross? Recall what he said to Jesus. “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And Jesus replied, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise”.

This criminal did NOT say, Jesus I repent of all the sins I ever committed, please forgive me! All he said was “remember me” and bam, it was done. Because he acknowledged in his heart that Jesus was King and he knew in his heart he was a sinner.

That my friend, is why you need ONLY a repentant heart and faith in Jesus Christ. All the other Catholic regulations and rules are nothing but legalism. Good intent possibly, but legalism nonetheless.

Another thing, and I’m going to put it bluntly. The Catholic church does not hold all the answers. The Bible holds the answers and the Bible is the ONLY thing we should be looking to for complete truth. 🙂
 
I disagree. I know, you’re shocked. 🙂 But what then of the man who hung next to Jesus on the cross? Recall what he said to Jesus. “Jesus, remember me when you come into your kingdom.” And Jesus replied, “Truly I say to you, today you will be with me in paradise”.

This criminal did NOT say, Jesus I repent of all the sins I ever committed, please forgive me! All he said was “remember me” and bam, it was done. Because he acknowledged in his heart that Jesus was King and he knew in his heart he was a sinner.

That my friend, is why you need ONLY a repentant heart and faith in Jesus Christ. All the other Catholic regulations and rules are nothing but legalism. Good intent possibly, but legalism nonetheless.

Another thing, and I’m going to put it bluntly. The Catholic church does not hold all the answers. The Bible holds the answers and the Bible is the ONLY thing we should be looking to for complete truth. 🙂
My dear Carin. Present those as questions to my email lol.
 
Your position honestly is not too far from the Catholic viewpoint. Once you have been baptized, if you commit no mortal sins (in effect choose to walk away from Him, which is what sin is), then you will be saved and go to Heaven.

I think we can both agree that Christians that refuse to take care of their families, those that refuse to help the poor, clothe the naked, visit those in prison, hurt others, become sexually impure, etc, those Christians who refuse to do these actions are refusing to follow Christ’s commands. And Christ said that if you love Him, you will follow His commands.

And remember that whenever the final judgement is mentioned in Scripture, how does it say that we will be judged. In every case, it is based upon our ACTIONS.

So when we sin, when we disobey Christ, when we do wrong, what are we to do? Well we are to turn our hearts back to Christ, to repent, but ALSO, follow through on this, and show with our actions that we wish to be reconciled with God. We do this through Confession.

God bless and welcome to the CAF forums!
Absolutely! We are judged by our actions but we are SAVED by our faith in Christ. And faith to me means believing and following Him. You do not need good works to get into heaven but truth faith WILL produce good works in you. 🙂 Remember we get our reward in heaven. I believe that the works we do on earth are what will produce our reward in heaven. But getting into heaven is not based on works. Otherwise we are no different than any other religion trying to earn our salvation. Wow, that’s a mouthful. :ehh:
 
So I was in bed last night and a thought came to mind that kept me awake until 2am. I will run it by everyone and would love some feedback. Please be mindful of others.

As Catholics, we are told that we must confess our sins to a priest so that we may be forgiven. If we do not and die with mortal sin unconfessed, we do not inherit the Kingdom of God and we are lost in our sins. We are told that we must attend Mass every Sunday and if we do not then we sin. We have many beliefs and doctrine that effect our salvation and we humbly and faithful ( I hope and pray we do) submit to the will of God and carry them out. So a Protestant friend of mine asked me the other day, “If Catholics believe the must do all these things in order to go to Heaven, will a Protestant go to heaven if the do not repent to a priest?”

He believes in being “saved” and “one saved always saved.” Confession to a priest is like a sin to them lol, so where does that actually leave Protestants? I know many Popes have stated that our Protestant brethen can go to Heaven, but exactly how is that true? I know the tract about if they are ignorant of the Catholic Church and Her teachings, but what if they know of the teachings of the Church and reject them? He is a faithful Lutheran and reject everything the Catholic Church stands for. He believes his faith in Christ will save him. Does it? If so then why must we (Catholics) confess, attend mass and do all the things we are called to do by Christ and His Church in order to gain His Grace and salvation. Make sense or am I thinking to much into it? 😛
For them, so many errors are taught and so many important truths are not taught, it will be harder. Tho it dosen’t look like it on the surface to those who don’t see the “pearls of great price”.

Just a thought.
 
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