QUICK! Need advice re: Hooters restaurants

[StephenFrancis]

There is a difference between a place where the people are actually dressed immodestly and films where people pretend to be a character that dresses immodestly or sexily.

In a film, the audience suspends reality to engage a particular storyline or tale. Judgment is required in this environment as it always is (e.g. porn, celebrating immorality and such).

Reality is another matter. You are encouraging people, in this case women, to showcase their bodies as serviceable goods. Not a good thing. There isn’t even a hint of camouflaging the intent at hooters unlike other establishments that want young attractive waitresses.

Quite frankly, you’re better off going to a strip club. At least the facade is completely removed. It’s honest about its immorality/immodesty.

AMEN!!! Somehow you managed to say everything I was trying to (and which some parts were taken out of context). I don’t think we have to be prudes. We DO have to have discernment. Well said.

 

[WatchingMedia]

Financially supporting entertainment that is sinful is wrong.
By rewarding those who exploit sex perpetuates this type of entertainment.
Sexual entertainment desensitizes society to what sin is.

That is why our Country is in such a mess today.
For example if no one would buy pornography, the perveyors would go out of business and the participants would have to find legitimate work.

In loving your neighbor as Jesus commanded, you would not want him/her to be in a sinful situation or desensitize them from forming a right conscience either.

There are plenty of good restaurants where sex is not exploited and women are not treated as sex objects. You have a choice.

Ask yourself - am I doing God’s will, or my will.
If they are not the same, get yourself straightened out.

 

[Rascalking]

Even though the issue has passed, I think you need to remember that some issues aren’t black and white.

If you pull the “I’m better than that” bit, you’ll find that no one wants to be around you. That doesn’t mean to take a bath in immorality, but it does mean to take a deep breath and go with the flow sometimes. Use common sense. It’s not like their asking you to go the VIP section of a -ahem-“Gentlemen’s club”. (Even though I find that name ironic. No gentlemen would go to one of those)

 

[CountrySinger]

Even though the issue has passed, I think you need to remember that some issues aren’t black and white.

If you pull the “I’m better than that” bit, you’ll find that no one wants to be around you. That doesn’t mean to take a bath in immorality, but it does mean to take a deep breath and go with the flow sometimes. Use common sense. It’s not like their asking you to go the VIP section of a -ahem-“Gentlemen’s club”. (Even though I find that name ironic. No gentlemen would go to one of those)

I agree! That is why I don’t have very many friends who are practicing Catholics, because they tend to be very holier than thou in real life. I prefer people who are fun and act like pleasnt people! Not like someone who walks around looking down on others who aren’t Catholic (they tend to have an expression like they just smelled something bad).

 

[PatriceA]

Even though the issue has passed, I think you need to remember that some issues aren’t black and white.

If you pull the “I’m better than that” bit, you’ll find that no one wants to be around you. That doesn’t mean to take a bath in immorality, but it does mean to take a deep breath and go with the flow sometimes. Use common sense. It’s not like their asking you to go the VIP section of a -ahem-“Gentlemen’s club”. (Even though I find that name ironic. No gentlemen would go to one of those)

I use to feel that way myself. And then I got married and had a daughter. Some of the stuff that was “just go with the flow” became very black and white for me. I rethought a lot of what was just seemed like no big deal, became very important to the kind of message I wanted to send my daughter about women being objectified in our society. I don’t want to raise her to think putting on a tight white tank top and tiny, tight orange shorts is a respectable way to earn money and if I eat at such an establishment, I would be sending her a mixed message.

And sometimes we do have to pull “I’m better than that” to make this world a better place for our children.

 

[Consecrated]

I agree! That is why I don’t have very many friends who are practicing Catholics, because they tend to be very holier than thou in real life. I prefer people who are fun and act like pleasnt people! Not like someone who walks around looking down on others who aren’t Catholic (they tend to have an expression like they just smelled something bad).

aww that’s sad for you… it’s taken a while, but we do have good practicing Catholic friends that are very very fun and pleasant to be around. DH even works with a couple of them. It’s possible! Don’t give up y’all!

on topic: I don’t think going to Hooters is necessarily a sin. It is, however, imprudent for a man and prolly a near occasion of sin. Especially because, as others have pointed out, it’s not really necessary. As for getting take-out, it wouldn’t be a sin. You can choose to avoid supporting the business, though. That would be the “moral high ground.”

I also watched the episode of “Undercover Boss” that featured Hooters and it’s CEO/owner. It turned me off even more to the whole idea of the establishment.

 

[shannyk]

I agree! That is why I don’t have very many friends who are practicing Catholics, because they tend to be very holier than thou in real life. I prefer people who are fun and act like pleasnt people! Not like someone who walks around looking down on others who aren’t Catholic (they tend to have an expression like they just smelled something bad).

So…people who make a conscious effort to care about how the business they may choose to patronize operates and how and where choose where they spend their (God’s) money are holier than thou???

Honestly, that is the blessing and the challenge to us as Christian living in a free market economy, good stewardship which begins with the financial resources God given to us, aka our money and how and where we spend it. We are blessed in this country to have choices of thousands of different restaurants to go to with all of our extra money. Why NOT at least make an effort to choose a restaurant that isn’t openly exploiting women? You can get chicken wings and watch football at a zillion restaurants that don’t. It really is difficult, or hard, or holier than thou, it’s charitable.

You can act plenty fun and pleasant while not going to Hooters.

 

[CountrySinger]

aww that’s sad for you… it’s taken a while, but we do have good practicing Catholic friends that are very very fun and pleasant to be around. DH even works with a couple of them. It’s possible! Don’t give up y’all!

It is sad really. The judgmental jerks turn off outside people. My best friend is a former Catholic, and it was the Catholic people he met that made him leave.
I would guess that 90% of Catholics I have met are judgmental jerks or so boring I would rather watch paint dry.

You can’t help people when you are looking down your nose at them.

 

[CountrySinger]

So…people who make a conscious effort to care about how the business they may choose to patronize operates and how and where choose where they spend their (God’s) money are holier than thou???

Nope, not that, but if they judge people who do spend their money there. That it’s going into “holier than thou” territory.

Example: said with sneer in voice: I would never go to a place LIKE THAT! People who go there are perverts!*usually said while insulting someone.

 

[LotusCarsLtd]

I think at this point I’m going to abandon this thread and leave it to it’s own devices. I get the point.

 

[PatriceA]

It is sad really. The judgmental jerks turn off outside people. My best friend is a former Catholic, and it was the Catholic people he met that made him leave.
I would guess that 90% are judgmental jerks or so boring I would rather watch paint dry.

You can’t help people when you are looking down your nose at them.

90%?? So does that mean you think 90% of the people here at CAF are judgemental jerks?

 

[CountrySinger]

90%?? So does that mean you think 90% of the people here at CAF are judgemental jerks?

Nope, just 90% percent of Catholics that I met. I’ll go back and edit that statement.

ETA: edited previous statement. Never post on a bus using a cell phone.

 

[NewsTheMan]

I use to feel that way myself. And then I got married and had a daughter. Some of the stuff that was “just go with the flow” became very black and white for me. I rethought a lot of what was just seemed like no big deal, became very important to the kind of message I wanted to send my daughter about women being objectified in our society. I don’t want to raise her to think putting on a tight white tank top and tiny, tight orange shorts is a respectable way to earn money and if I eat at such an establishment, I would be sending her a mixed message.

And sometimes we do have to pull “I’m better than that” to make this world a better place for our children.

AMEN!

Look, I don’t have kids, but it just makes sense to me. We are where we are (with regards to sexuality in contemporary morality) because everybody just went with the flow. I used to think like that too, to make it easier on my conscience and myself. But then I realised… I have a mom, I have a sister, I will have a future wife, and I will have a daughter (the latter 2 if it is God’s will)… and would I want them to experience that? Or grow up in a place where that is okay? I think that is the real tragedy. The sexualisation of everything.

I also don’t like holier than thou catholics, and I know one or two. But there is a different in being prudent/knowing that by virtue of your being Catholic you SHOULD be above certain things/rise above them. I think a place like Hooters just isn’t right. But I do go to bars, and I avoid the occasions of sin. Know what I mean. I think its up to individual discretion.

 

[MtnDwellar]

CountrySinger brings up a valid point, although I hate to make generalizations or characterize a group Said while looking down my nose

People believe that they hold themselves to higher moral standard and that it makes them better. They forget that their faith is a gift from God. Not everyone has received the gift. I could go on and on but I think that we all know the point. It is hard to practice.

I sometimes get it in a slightly different way, while at church. They crack me up. Mine is the only chopper in the parking lot. They see that my hair is long. They think that I need saving. They make it a point to meet me after mass and tell me a bible quote or give me words of encouragement. Oh yes. “You know that God loves us all, no matter what our race or how we look.” I just agree and thank them. LOL Those old ladies are so sweeeet.

 

[shannyk]

Nope, not that, but if they judge people who do spend their money there. That it’s going into “holier than thou” territory.

Example: said with sneer in voice: I would never go to a place LIKE THAT! People who go there are perverts!*usually said while insulting someone.

I would never go to a place like that. EVER. Imagine me saying that out loud

I will not waste money in a place that furthers unhealthy and disordered attitudes about human sexuality and fuels the fire of the contraceptive and anti feminine mentality that is rampant in the world and especially in this country today.

I won’t to to a place that uses men’s God given sexuality as a weapon against them to get them to spend money.

I won’t go to a place that actively demeans the female body and exploits it in the name of entertainment and monetary gain.

I wont go to a restaurant that by it’s promoting these disordered ideas, makes it harder and harder for women to choose to be wives and mothers and use their bodies for God’s purposes.

So does that make me judgmental? No one should be threatened or feel ‘judged’ by my convictions or anyone elses.

Frankly,I don’t care that much about chicken wings. I make better ones at home myself anyway.

 

[FrCorey]

CountrySinger brings up a valid point, although I hate to make generalizations or characterize a group Said while looking down my nose

People believe that they hold themselves to higher moral standard and that it makes them better. They forget that their faith is a gift from God. Not everyone has received the gift. I could go on and on but I think that we all know the point. It is hard to practice.

I sometimes get it in a slightly different way, while at church. They crack me up. Mine is the only chopper in the parking lot. They see that my hair is long. They think that I need saving. They make it a point to meet me after mass and tell me a bible quote or give me words of encouragement. Oh yes. “You know that God loves us all, no matter what our race or how we look.” I just agree and thank them. LOL Those old ladies are so sweeeet.

I believe it. if Jesus showed up today, dressed like he was the first time he came down here, they would try to “save” him too.

I love good food, and here in las vegas most good food is in less than “modest” places, i.e. bars, clubs and stuff. heck, I can hardly go into a jack in the box or shopping these days in my cassock or habit. I can’t even wear my zuchetto without people saying, shalom. had to go on the city bus once in my cassock and some guy said, nice dress dude.
oy gevalte!

 

[FrCorey]

I would never go to a place like that. EVER. Imagine me saying that out loud

I will not waste money in a place that furthers unhealthy and disordered attitudes about human sexuality and fuels the fire of the contraceptive and anti feminine mentality that is rampant in the world and especially in this country today.

I won’t to to a place that uses men’s God given sexuality as a weapon against them to get them to spend money.

I won’t go to a place that actively demeans the female body and exploits it in the name of entertainment and monetary gain.

I wont go to a restaurant that by it’s promoting these disordered ideas, makes it harder and harder for women to choose to be wives and mothers and use their bodies for God’s purposes.

So does that make me judgmental? No one should be threatened or feel ‘judged’ by my convictions or anyone elses.

Frankly,I don’t care that much about chicken wings. I make better ones at home myself anyway.

wings and fingers is easy. just try to order breasts and fries once.
when I really need some good food, I have to zip up my jacket to cover my collar.

 

[pnewton]

I agree! That is why I don’t have very many friends who are practicing Catholics, because they tend to be very holier than thou in real life.

You are right in the sense that we should not be judging another person, and that the issue is not black and white. However, if you check again the title of the thread, the poster was asking for advice. It is perfectly sound to address his concerns and give some moral principles that might make a decision easier for him. We are not all at the same place in our spiritual journey, nor do we all think the same. There are some basic moral principles, though, immutable and not subject to our convenience.

If you wish to criticize folks for being too judgemental, do you not at least see the contradiction in that?

 

[Rascalking]

You are right in the sense that we should not be judging another person, and that the issue is not black and white. However, if you check again the title of the thread, the poster was asking for advice. It is perfectly sound to address his concerns and give some moral principles that might make a decision easier for him. We are not all at the same place in our spiritual journey, nor do we all think the same. There are some basic moral principles, though, immutable and not subject to our convenience.

If you wish to criticize folks for being too judgemental, do you not at least see the contradiction in that?

In fairness to Countrysinger, she is right. Too many Catholics are so self-righteous that it makes me sick as well.

If we start saying, “well, your also being judgemental for being judgemental”, we’ll go around in a dizzying circle!

 

[CountrySinger]

You are right in the sense that we should not be judging another person, and that the issue is not black and white. However, if you check again the title of the thread, the poster was asking for advice. It is perfectly sound to address his concerns and give some moral principles that might make a decision easier for him. We are not all at the same place in our spiritual journey, nor do we all think the same. There are some basic moral principles, though, immutable and not subject to our convenience.

If you wish to criticize folks for being too judgemental, do you not at least see the contradiction in that?

I do see the contradiction, but at least mine is not about trying to make someone feel bad. Or looking down on someone. I know some cradle Catholics would look down on me because I am a convert, then left the Church for a long time. Let’s just say they don’t care about the state of my soul, they just want to feel superior.

Thank you Rascalking.