Quick question about The Catechism of the Catholic Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter annad347
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
Justin_Mary said:
I don’t think you’re bible alone because you attend a Lutheran church. I think you’re bible alone because you believe everything has to be defined in the bible. Technically basing your beliefs on the bible, & not all that Jesus taught.
Click to expand...
99.9% of the time yes. Mainly because it’s the only way I can learn and understand what God wants me to know so that I’m not following lies. I know not everything is the Bible. It’s even written in the Bible… if everything Jesus did was written the Bible would be too big to handle, John 21:25 so I know not everything is in there.

However, like you, for specific thing I do go to the Bible to verify the truth. Also, I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to be insulting with my question… about Catholics not doing that.

When someone tells me something that’s not in the Bible, I rely on the Holy Spirit to guide me to the truth… especially when they say something is a sin or can cause me to lose my salvation.

Please understand, I know the Holy Spirit can lead me to a person, place or thing to help me understand God’s truth. Unlike that guy in the ocean waiting for God to save him. It’s not me figuring things out, following my own rules. I go to church, I talk to ministers, other church members, friends, family, anyone who is smarter then me, I use the Bible and I pray, I use all the tools God gives me to know Him as He knows me.

That’s why I asked about the Catechism of the Catholic Church.
 
Last edited:
Gorgias said:
… The sentence identifies the “household of God” and calls it “the Church of the living God”. When it says “the pillar and foundation of the truth”, though, to what is Paul referring? Is it the living God who is that pillar and foundation, or the Church?
Click to expand...
The Living God is the truth, the pillar and foundation of the Church. But, You are right, I’m wrong in 1 Timothy 3:15 the pillar and foundation of the church is referring to the leaders of the church.

Notice, the passage also states the type of people those leaders of the church should be… I’m just saying
Gorgias said:
If they have the authority of Christ to teach, we should certainly discern the Spirit in their words… but what would it mean if we said “nah; you’re wrong about that ‘Eucharist’ thing”? Wouldn’t that mean that we’re questioning the authority of Christ itself?
Click to expand...
I don’t think so, no. The Holy Spirit within each of us is teaching us, leading us to God’s truth and helping us discern the Spirit of people’s words. We would know who’s telling us the truth of the Eucharist, not just because of their title but because we would recognized the Holy Spirit in the person and in their words. As stated, above Catholics, do question the Magistrate, leaders of the church, that’s not questing the authority of Christ… I don’t think it’s the same.

Again, I’m sorry if my question was taken as an insult, to you @Justin_Mary or anyone else, I didn’t mean for it to be an insult,
Gorgias said:
How might we discern who the “strugglers” are, and who the “ignorers” are, and who the “listeners” are, if all of them say “this is what the Word of God means, folks!”…?
Click to expand...
The same Holy Spirit that tells you the Catholic Church is your church. But you don’t think the leaders of the church with divine authority struggle every day, praying every day that they are following God’s will or their own?
 
Last edited:
annad347 said:
Church did this or does that, you’re talking about the Magistrate, the leaders of the Catholic Church, right?
Click to expand...
Each of us has role in the Church. Magisterium holds role of teaching. We hold role of being Church Militant as you have described. When we talk about Church we talk about how people in the Church fulfill those roles. So when talking about dogmas or teachings we talk about Magisterium and also us- because we embody living Tradition of the Church and carry it through. Magisterium always conforms to that Tradition if it indeed is Apostolic or brought to us by Holy Spirit in other way.
 
annad347 said:
The same Holy Spirit that tells you the Catholic Church is your church. But you don’t think the leaders of the church with divine authority struggle every day, praying every day that they are following God’s will or their own?
Click to expand...
I think they do, and it is something they were taught to do from the earliest days of their faith. They rely on the Holy Spirit to guide them, the Spirit that brings each of us to faith. They do not suddenly start learning how to discern the Spirit when they become bishops usually.

While the magisterium articulates the faith to teach it to us, the faith that all of us believe is what is articulated. This is tricky to discern sometimes, which is why we have bishops to discern. But even in the doctrine of papal infallibility, the infallibility of the Church’s faith is the pillar and ground of doctrinal infallibility. When we say the Church teaches, it is the magisterium that teaches, but it is the faith of all of us. They speak for us, setting aside the problems of individual mistakes for the moment to focus on our common faith.
 
annad347 said:
when they talk about the Church Militant, Suffering and Triumphant, you are talking about us, each of us, individually
Click to expand...
Not exactly. The word literally means group or congregation. I am not a church, you are not a church. Temple of the Holy Spirit, sure, but not a church.
annad347 said:
when they talk about Bride of Christ, that’s also us, individually showing God with the power of the Holy Spirit,we are faithful to Him, each of us, individually.
Click to expand...
I’m a groom. I have one bride. Christ has one bride. Made up of many members, but one bride. I (& my wife) am a member of Christ’s Bride, the Church. We (you included) are living stones built (by God) into a spiritual house.
annad347 said:
Now, I think I understand what was confusing me. When you guys post things like… when @OrbisNonSufficit posted we trust in Church as a whole. (114) or when @Justin_Mary, posted when the Church teaches something, I don’t understand… (115 ) or any other time, you guys said the Church did this or does that, you’re talking about the Magistrate, the leaders of the Catholic Church, right?
Click to expand...
Pretty much, except the Church is one, teaches one truth, even if my priest teaches the Eucharist is the body & blood of Christ under the species of bread & wine, it isn’t him that is teaching, it is the Church that teaches it. Whether he was my priest or not, whether he was here or in Barcelona, whether it was me he was teaching or someone else, whether I was in California, or Istanbul the Church would teach the same thing.

Anyone (individually or as group) teaching something different is not the Church.

I pray that makes sense.
 
Dovekin said:
While the magisterium articulates the faith to teach it to us, the faith that all of us believe is what is articulated. This is tricky to discern sometimes, which is why we have bishops to discern. But even in the doctrine of papal infallibility, the infallibility of the Church’s faith is the pillar and ground of doctrinal infallibility. When we say the Church teaches, it is the magisterium that teaches, but it is the faith of all of us. They speak for us, setting aside the problems of individual mistakes for the moment to focus on our common faith.
Click to expand...
When the magisterium has a clear understanding of the faith to teach us, the faith we believe in is what is taught to us by them? Sometime its hard to have a clear understanding of faith, which is why we have bishops to do it for us. Is that correct?

So, when the church (Magisterum) says this is the meaning of our faith… it is the meaning of our faith? And because they have papal infallibility, what the Pope and/or Bishops state is the meaning of our faith, that meaning is infallible?

but that’s doesn’t apply to the Catechism of the Catholic Church, because that’s just a reference to the understanding of what the Catholic’s teach and believe?
Justin_Mary said:
I’m a groom. I have one bride. Christ has one bride. Made up of many members, but one bride. I (& my wife) am a member of Christ’s Bride, the Church. We (you included) are living stones built (by God) into a spiritual house.
Click to expand...
Sorry this part didn’t make sense… you and your wife are member of Christ’s Bride, the Church, but you’re a groom? Christ has only one bride, we are the living stones built into a spiritual house, but its not the church, cause we are not the church… so my question is who is the Christ’s Bride, the Church?
Justin_Mary said:
Anyone (individually or as group) teaching something different is not the Church.
Click to expand...
This is why I need to understand you’re meaning of the Church, to understand why you automatically assume individually or as a group, they are teaching something different?
 
Last edited:
annad347 said:
my question is who is the Christ’s Bride, the Church?
Click to expand...
None of us individually but each of us collectively. Catholic Church (Church, Ekklesia, means “gathering” as used in New Testament) is the Bride of Christ. As one Church Father said, Church was there since dawn of time in different forms. Christ was there, and so was His Bride. We show Church respect because we love and respect Her Groom, Her Father and Her Guide.
annad347 said:
This is why I need to understand you’re meaning of the Church, to understand why you automatically assume individually or as a group, they are teaching something different?
Click to expand...
Church must be united in belief otherwise it isn’t True Church (Divine Institution so this applies clearly). Members of the Church must be united in belief with the Church otherwise they are not true members of the Church (but they are human so they may be less culpable).
annad347 said:
So, when the church (Magisterum) says this is the meaning of our faith… it is the meaning of our faith? And because they have papal infallibility, what the Pope and/or Bishops state is the meaning of our faith, that meaning is infallible?
Click to expand...
When they declare “this IS our faith” would be clearer- that is wording Church Fathers have used. But yes, Magisterium (Bishops in unity with St. Peter’s successors) promulgate dogmas. Church of Christ subsists in Catholic Church, and is led by Holy Spirit. Catechism is explanatory- it has no binding force on it’s own, but things it references do.
 
Last edited:
Justin_Mary said:
Anyone (individually or as group) teaching something different is not the Church.
Click to expand...
annad347 said:
This is why I need to understand you’re meaning of the Church, to understand why you automatically assume individually or as a group, they are teaching something different?
Click to expand...
Look at what we have today, Catholic, Orthodox, Protestant.

Each of those in themselves have many different forms. Catholic; Roman, Byzantine, Armenian, etc… Orthodox; Greek, Russian, Syriac, etc… Protestant; Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, etc…

The Catholic Church recognizes the Orthodox as Church because they believe the same thing at the core. The Orthodox recognizes the Catholic as Church because they believe what was taught from the beginning. Both Catholic & Orthodox believe Protestant to be something different all together because they lack basics beliefs that were handed down from the one who was there in the beginning.
 
Justin_Mary said:
The Catholic Church recognizes the Orthodox as Church because they believe the same thing at the core. The Orthodox recognizes the Catholic as Church because they believe what was taught from the beginning.
Click to expand...
This is a bit more complex. Catholic Church recognizes anyone with valid Priesthood to be Church in a sense. However, Protestant lost notion of Priesthood with their symbolic understanding of Eucharist and their wrong understanding of Holy Orders- according to Orthodoxy as well as Catholicism.

Orthodox also recognize Catholic sacraments only if someone enters their Church. In other words, Catholics/Protestant get Baptized. It has no effect. They convert Orthodox and BOOM, suddenly their previous baptism starts having effect. This is called “Cyprianic” understanding of Sacraments. This also means that Catholic Priesthood in itself is valid to Orthodox only if Priest converts to Orthodoxy. However, Orthodox also do not view Protestant Priesthood as valid even if Protestant “Priest” converts to Orthodoxy. This means that Catholic Sacraments are somewhat valid (or can have effect) in Orthodox view, but Protestant ones (except Baptism ofc) can’t.

And then there are Orthodox who share Catholic view too. It isn’t unified belief in Orthodoxy but those are two options majority choose. No one would recognize any Protestant Priesthood (perhaps except Anglican one before they started ordaining women).
 
what exactly is the core of the Catholic Church?

only ask because the core of the different religions mentioned is the only part that’s universal among them… the only part that unites them… Jesus Christ
 
Last edited:
EndTimes said:
I’ve often also said - Jesus is the Core.
Click to expand...
but does the Catholic Church say that… that Jesus Christ is the core, the head, the leader, the first, the ONE AND ONLY reason for all we are and who we serve with the power of the Holy Spirit?

Jesus Christ being the core of the Catholic Church should be the only thing said… right? Jesus Christ is the core of the Catholic faith.
 
Unless we have different understanding to the meaning of the core of something, why would the core to the Catholic Church be anything other then Jesus Christ?

Also that article you posted is centered around Jesus Christ, the foundation of all He did for us, so I’m not understanding how Jesus Christ isn’t the core of the Catholic faith.
 
Last edited:
annad347 said:
what exactly is the core of the Catholic Church?

only ask because the core of the different religions mentioned is the only part that’s universal among them… the only part that unites them… Jesus Christ
Click to expand...
& that is good for a time, as St Paul said, “I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it.”

When we get to defining the Church & her teachings, we’re into solid foods.
 
Justin_Mary said:
& that is good for a time, as St Paul said, “I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it.”

When we get to defining the Church & her teachings, we’re into solid foods.
Click to expand...
… no one can lay any foundation other than the one that has been laid; that foundation is Jesus Christ

Is the core of the Catholic faith Jesus Christ?
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top