A
annad347
Guest
True but only to a specific point… then the truth of our faith in God is on us. Meaning our faith either belongs to Jesus or doesn’t. That’s a fact.
Last edited:
- Status
G
Gorgias
Guest
Not sure what you’re getting at, though. My act of faith is mine. It’s enabled by grace, of course. Is that what you’re trying to say – that the grace of Jesus enables our acts of faith?
Sure… but I’m not seeing how that fits into the present discussion…
A
Athanasiy
Guest
I would describe the Catechism of the Roman Catholic Church as a teaching without explanation the historical complexities of biblical eras, traditions, and customs.
The Protestants oblige you to become a student of the Jewish era, history, tradition and life without fail.
But for a quality level you need to study and improve for a long time, but Catechism is already a ready-made science, not a material for science.
Catechism is bread, and not flour and water for making bread.
Of course, if you love God, you should be interested in the Bible, but among the labyrinths of confessions, saying that a chick can run after anyone moving, followers need a hen, a mother - the Church.
The faithful need Catechism.
The Protestants oblige you to become a student of the Jewish era, history, tradition and life without fail.
But for a quality level you need to study and improve for a long time, but Catechism is already a ready-made science, not a material for science.
Catechism is bread, and not flour and water for making bread.
Of course, if you love God, you should be interested in the Bible, but among the labyrinths of confessions, saying that a chick can run after anyone moving, followers need a hen, a mother - the Church.
The faithful need Catechism.
A
Athanasiy
Guest
In my opinion, in Catechism there may be no answers to all questions in the world, but thanks to God’s wisdom, you can see the rays of the science of Catechism on all aspects, questions, and problems of our life.
The Bible is the primary source.
The Bible contains all the wisdom of God.
But the catechism of the church “answers the life questions” as in past centuries (when masses of people were illiterate) and in modern times(when for example Western or Eastern people have no time or wish to explore Jewish historical heritage)
The Bible is the primary source.
The Bible contains all the wisdom of God.
But the catechism of the church “answers the life questions” as in past centuries (when masses of people were illiterate) and in modern times(when for example Western or Eastern people have no time or wish to explore Jewish historical heritage)
J
Justin_Mary
Guest
I think the issue is discerning who Jesus is & who he is not. The Church has fought this battle from the beginning. & there is still much to do.
Take courage
A
annad347
Guest
The authority of the Catholic Church only goes so far, meaning they can not guarantee anyone anything, they are not God… so the truth in my faith that I’m following God’s will through the power of the Holy Spirit within me when I accepted Jesus as my Lord and Savior belongs to God’s authority only.
The fact He alone knows the truth in my faith gives me the assurance I need to know I belong to God and trust His promise when I accept Him. He will always be with me, will never leave me, will always help me, will always guide me to His Will… through the power of the Holy Spirit. That’s a fact, not an opinion.
So, that’s what I meant by what I said. It applies to our conversation because you asked me how do I know I’m following the Holy Spirit… My answer was it’s based on the same method the church uses, scripture, prayer and faith in God’s Word and God’s Truth.
and no that doesn’t mean I get to do what ever I want or believe what ever I want, if that was the case I’d be lying to myself. My prayers to God will make me see His truth, because the Holy Spirit can only lead me to God’s Truth… which is also a fact, not an opinion.
Last edited:
G
Gorgias
Guest
Yes… and no.
Because, you see, God is the one making guarantees about the Catholic Church, and not the Catholic Church about itself. Jesus was the one who promised that, whatever the Church bound or loosed on earth, would be upheld as bound or loosed in heaven. Jesus was the one who promised that the gates of hell would not prevail over the Church.
So… when you trust in the Catholic Church, it’s really Jesus (and His promises) that you believe in! (And that works conversely with unbelief and mistrust!
Jesus didn’t make a promise that, “when [you] accept Jesus as [your] Lord and Savior”, that you’d thereby be assured that you’d flawlessly follow God’s will. In fact, Paul warns over and again that Christians will slip and fall.
Absolutely. You’re missing one part, though: God won’t abandon you – that’s what the Scripture says, right? – but Scripture doesn’t promise that you won’t abandon Him. That’s the danger here!
That’s the whole point, Anna. How can we be assured that we’re not deceiving ourselves, if our own ideas are the only measuring stick we have?
Time to break out my “Lord, Lord” quote again…?
A
annad347
Guest
only if you know it applies to everyone… not just non-Catholic’s. That statement also applies to every human.
Which of Paul’s teaching does he say you will fall by following the Holy Spirit? That the Holy Spirit will lead you away from God?
Sweetie, this is a danger no matter what church you attend. Catholic, Lutheran, Baptist… every Christian is in danger of abandoning God. That’s why God gave us the Holy Spirit… to help us. John 14:6 says the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in my name, will teach you everything, and remind you of all that I have said to you.
Why do you think Jesus wants to make sure we are baptized in the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit… God knows we are nothing without Him… we will be lost without Him.
Because its not our own ideas that are the measuring stick… at least not mine. I’m not coming up with my own beliefs, I’m not making things up as I go, I’m following God.
God said search, and you will find … Matthew 7:7–8. To not believe if I ask the Holy Spirit to lead me to God’s will but believe the Holy Spirit will lead me to evil, to be deceived or away from God would be a lie. It would be I don’t trust God to hear my prayers. To answer the prayer I’m saying with all my faith in Him.
Yes, I can deceive myself, I can ignore what God is telling me, but so can you, so can anyone, even someone standing in a Catholic church everyday, doing everything they do, pray every prayer they pray, you can still be deceiving yourself if you don’t truly believe what you what you are saying. Only God knows the truth about whether or not we truly love God, truly have faith in God or truly following the Holy Spirit.
Meaning we are all in the same boat when we stand before Jesus saying Lord, Lord…
and yes we have turned the circle of our conversation once again… Kind of like the song that doesn’t end… it just goes on and on my friend…
so… we good?
Last edited:
A
al2o3
Guest
Hmmm! So it boils down to - I will bet my infallible individual Holy Spirit (authority/guidance 30 yrs) against your infallible Catholic church Holy Spirit ( authority/guidance 2000+ years) 
.
I suspect it is not either/or , rather it is both/and - because the Holy Spirit is one. Thats why the authority of the Catholic Church cant be simply ignored or set aside when we feel like it does not suit our individual reasoning ability.
.I suspect it is not either/or , rather it is both/and - because the Holy Spirit is one. Thats why the authority of the Catholic Church cant be simply ignored or set aside when we feel like it does not suit our individual reasoning ability.
G
Gorgias
Guest
Sure. There are mistaken Catholics just as there are mistaken Protestants.
Yet… we put our trust in the Church that Jesus founded and which He made promises about (and not the denominations that men founded and Jesus didn’t make promises about).
You’re the one asserting that you’re doing it. Could you be mistaken? Paul definitely gets on Christians for being mistaken and thinking they’re following the right path when they’ve missed the boat entirely. (“O foolish Galatians”, remember?)
LOL!
Right – but that’s the point we’re discussing: if you’re following your own heart, how do you know you’re following the right path?
I think it would be more accurate to say that you’re following your own personal understanding of God. That’s where personal error can creep in.
I totally agree! However… if you follow the doctrine of the Church that Jesus personally founded, then you know you’re following Jesus.
LOL! Sure. We’re not going to change each other’s mind on this one…Kind of like the song that doesn’t end… it just goes on and on my friend…
so… we good?
J
Justin_Mary
Guest
Imitation of Christ III 20:2-3
A
annad347
Guest
Didn’t realize we were trying to change each other’s mind, I thought we were trying to understand each other.
G
Gorgias
Guest
LOL!
I think I understand you – and am I wrong in thinking you understand my point of view? – but we simply disagree with each other.
A
annad347
Guest
Yes, I totally understand your point of view, one of the reasons I attend a Catholic church each week… I never said being Catholic was wrong… but I don’t think you’ll ever understand why I also attend a Lutheran church. Trust me no one understands, so I’d be shocked if you did…
I truly believe both churches teach me about God, lead me to a better understanding of Him… and yes I’m lead to both by the Holy Spirit.
Last edited:
M
Montrose
Guest
However, only the fullness of truth is found in the Catholic Church.
I recommend watching Marcus Grodi’s program on EWTN called Coming Home.
A
annad347
Guest
Fullness of God’s truth is also in the Holy Spirit who becomes a part of us, lives with in each of us when we are baptized. God’s truth is given to us through the Holy Spirit by God to know, understand and follow His Truth.
F
fredystairs
Guest
Even if the Lutheran Church and the Catholic Church teach different things? Like the theology of the Eucharist? How can two different teachings both be from the Holy Spirit?Gorgias:
Yes, I totally understand your point of view, one of the reasons I attend a Catholic church each week… I never said being Catholic was wrong… but I don’t think you’ll ever understand why I also attend a Lutheran church. Trust me no one understands, so I’d be shocked if you did…
I truly believe both churches teach me about God, lead me to a better understanding of Him… and yes I’m lead to both by the Holy Spirit.
Pax
A
annad347
Guest
I answered this already… the Holy Spirit will never lead you to anything that takes you away from God. Both churches teach me about God.
F
fredystairs
Guest
But which teaching about the Eucharist is correct? They both cannot be correct. There’s only three options: the Lutheran Church’s teaching is correct, the Catholic Church’s teaching is correct, or they’re both wrong And another teaching is correct. Which is correct?fredystairs:
I answered this already… the Holy Spirit will never lead you to anything that takes you away from God. Both churches teach me about God.
Pax
A
annad347
Guest
The one that teaches… On the night He was betrayed, He Himself took bread, broke the bread and gave it to His disciples, saying ‘Take this, eat it, this is my body, given in sacrifice to you’ then He took the chalice, He gave it to His disciples saying ‘Take this, drink it, this is my blood’ given in sacrifice to you… not the exact words but you know what I mean.
both churches teach the need, important and meaning of the Eucharist, both churches are correct because they are leading you to God’s will of taking in the body and blood of God.
Last edited:
- Status