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manualman
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Chicago, you have an amazingly developed set of writing skills.
Your age and temper shows in your tone, but I gotta say that I never could have written like that in high school. You are doing something right for sure!
You argue well, but I fear nothing can stop this now. Keep the faith! In spite of the disappointment now, God will see you through. And don’t be bitter, bishops are only men with all the weaknesses that come with that. Give it up in prayer and God will provide you with something even better! He’s sneaky like that.
Your age and temper shows in your tone, but I gotta say that I never could have written like that in high school. You are doing something right for sure!
You argue well, but I fear nothing can stop this now. Keep the faith! In spite of the disappointment now, God will see you through. And don’t be bitter, bishops are only men with all the weaknesses that come with that. Give it up in prayer and God will provide you with something even better! He’s sneaky like that.
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chicago
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Why, thank you!
I fear that I couldn’t either (and it showed it my English class grades then). I’m a few (more) years beyond high school these days.
As far as temper, that’s the city boy in me. Something I’m sure the Cardinal (another feisty straight talker) understands well.
Well, OF COURSE, I am!
You may be right, but with God (and a few million bucks) all things are possible.
Well, it’s better than apostasy, at least.
True, but really it isn’t about personal disappointment. It is about the future of our faith and our diocese… something which we must all care deeply about. It is about the future development of tender vocations from an early age. It is about the young men who are at Quigley now. It is that we may have priests.
I REFUSE NOT TO BE BITTER AND DON’T YOU OR ANYBODY TELL ME OTHERWISE!!!
Seriously, sometimes we would all do well with a little rightous anger shaking us to action from the typical complacency.
Ain’t it the truth!
Eh, true, but now is the time for action.
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chicago
Guest
This from the rector of Holy Name Cathedral, writing is the weekly bulletin:
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chicago
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I know that not alot of people around here like Fr. Greeley. But he does have a worthwhile reflection in this article (from which I’ve offerred an excepts - read the entire work here:
dailysouthtown.com/news/greeley/86298,1GRD1-06.article
I may not agree with all of his suggestions. But he does get at a certain crux of things. The tease follows.)
dailysouthtown.com/news/greeley/86298,1GRD1-06.article
I may not agree with all of his suggestions. But he does get at a certain crux of things. The tease follows.)
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Siena
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If you read the entire article, you get the terrible feeling of a split-personality.
I think it is hitting Mr. (Fr.) Greely a bit hard that “his” Catholic history is being obliterated in the form of churches/schools in his past closing. He dosn’t realize his part in the problem, or that his “sugesstions” for fixing it might fill space at the pulpit (for a time), but would obliterate any semblance left of the total self-gift of being a priest, like the priesthood was akin to the Peace Corps, or like shacking up before marriage. :nope:
I think it is hitting Mr. (Fr.) Greely a bit hard that “his” Catholic history is being obliterated in the form of churches/schools in his past closing. He dosn’t realize his part in the problem, or that his “sugesstions” for fixing it might fill space at the pulpit (for a time), but would obliterate any semblance left of the total self-gift of being a priest, like the priesthood was akin to the Peace Corps, or like shacking up before marriage. :nope:
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m134e5
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I have mixed feelings when it comes to Catholic education (Is seminary formation beginning in high school really necessary? honestly- the 8 years of college would be enough I would think), but it is sad to see a place close that has been around for so long- and no doubt sad to those who went there.
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iserve
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Me too. My misgivings are that the priests I knew who came out of these seminaries seemed to have lived in an “ivory tower” of education, pampering and an unrealistic sense of how the rest of the world lives. For millenia, the Catholic Church upheld education and community to attract followers of the priesthood, but now, anyone has this within reach and young men are steering clear of this somewhat “odd” and “outdated” lifestyle. In addition, there is also the perception that the priesthood is possibly a gay profession, certainly not the kind of profession that the average man sees himself fitting into.
If it were up to me, I would hope to see seminaries focus more on a sacrificial life of simple living and A HOLY (direct, simple, and God-oriented) approach towards the conditions surrounding their flock. One of the things I find so attractive about the communities at places like Stuebenville is their presentation of the *normalcy *of religious life- the easy way in which God fits into family life, sexuality, work, and as people surrounded by a secular society. I don’t think many young men today can picture themselves in seminary high school, away from the mainstream of everyday life, debating about the minutae of Scripture and being cared for by the people of the diocese as one that offers much of a challenge. Our top priority, in my humble opinion, should be towards return to a Church where men of strength weather the storms of life, and nowadays, thismeans facing the materialism and secularism that is drawing away our best resources. Education must include some courses in how to form Catholics into the kind of people God is calling them to be, rather than giving poor example and inadequate insight.
If it were up to me, I would hope to see seminaries focus more on a sacrificial life of simple living and A HOLY (direct, simple, and God-oriented) approach towards the conditions surrounding their flock. One of the things I find so attractive about the communities at places like Stuebenville is their presentation of the *normalcy *of religious life- the easy way in which God fits into family life, sexuality, work, and as people surrounded by a secular society. I don’t think many young men today can picture themselves in seminary high school, away from the mainstream of everyday life, debating about the minutae of Scripture and being cared for by the people of the diocese as one that offers much of a challenge. Our top priority, in my humble opinion, should be towards return to a Church where men of strength weather the storms of life, and nowadays, thismeans facing the materialism and secularism that is drawing away our best resources. Education must include some courses in how to form Catholics into the kind of people God is calling them to be, rather than giving poor example and inadequate insight.
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chicago
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It’s not merely a matter of “education” when it comes to seminary. The Lord does call some men from a young age (some as tender as 3rd or 4th grade) and there needs to be an opportunity for such vocations to be fostered and discerned even at the tender times of their lives. As such, a high school seminary does serve a valuable purpose. Unfortunately, with the increasing numbers of what we used to call “late vocations”, there is not a signifigant appreciation and promotion of the priesthood among boys. The attitide is, “Oh, you’re not old enough. Wait until you grow up. Go out and live life some. Then come back to us when you’re about 30.” I really do think that we fail to develop and lose a lot of potential priests as a result.
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chicago
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I don’t know that I disagree. I’ve encountered far too much of such myself. That said, it seems that some of the lower level seminaries (high school and, particularly, college) of today are more responsive to “real life” environments. Rather than simply removing men from the world for formation, much of their formation tends to take place right in the trenches with everyone else. To what degree this is better or worse than what we had before, I’m not sure. But it is different.
True enough. Though those men pursuing it these days are (perhaps much more so than the boys who followed in a supported and admired path of the past) ultimately brave souls who are willing to take the risk to cross the veil of societal suspicion. This makes their witness particularly strong and admirable.
I really think that one of the larger issues of concern when it comes to the crisis of vocations is a crisis in the meaning of manhood and fatherhood. A favorite saying of mine is that priests should be reminded that in taking a vow of celibacy, they are not to give up their balls. Good, strong, real men in the priesthood will offer an attractive option to other good, strong, real men looking for a meaningful way of life.
Undoubtedly.
Exactly! It’s also something that you realize (for better or for worse) in being closely exposed to the Church’s ministers and political beuracracy once you enter seminary.
Hmmmm… you think THAT is what seminary high school is? Not at all. Not in this day and age, at least. (Well, maybe some other high school seminaries, I don’t know, but not Quigley). It’s much more like you describe here:
Which is what makes it so valuable. You just aren’t going to get that sort of thing anyplace else… not even at another Catholic school. The invitation and freedom to find yourself and explore your call (with emphasis on the potential of priesthood) in a safe environment is what creates quality caliber of men and priests.
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chicago
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m134e5
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Perhaps…but consider this…the world needs young men who care about their faith in the public schools, the public colleges and universities. That’s why I have reservations about Catholic Education. What is left for the people who don’t have any faith, but are searching for something to believe in? What is left for those who are passionate about their faith but don’t know anyone their age who has the same views on religion? The young generations need people in their generation in the world to reach them. I wish I had known people in high school who were passionate about their faith. Unfortunately, I don’t think a single one of my Catholic classmates practice their faith anymore.
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chicago
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I don’t disagree that the faith needs witenesses in the public sphere, also.
In fact, an irony of our secularist day and age is that among those young people who attended Quigley but did not become priests, there is often a very real evangelical potential when one even finds out that “YOU DID WHAT???” Or, similarly, when people discover what that gothic building in the midst of the happenning culture downtown really is.
I don’t discount at all the refinement and value of also drawing upon those who don’t come from the “lifer” background. (Catholic gradechoool, seminary high school, seminary college and theologate). In fact, I think that they have added a greater depth of richness and experience which was much needed for the priesthood.
I also have my real concerns about much of Catholic schooling (and I’d go so far as to say that this is no small part of where Quigley’s REAL problems lie… how can you draw out vocations among the young when they haven’t been particularly well formed in the faith from an early age?)
Nonetheless, I don’t believe that we ought to give up on such an institution, either, and I think that we must respect it’s value. Let’s remember that these guys are, afterall, at a tender age and place in life as adolescents in a culture which is generally skeptical of religion. Providing an environment, then, where it’s “ok” to think about such things and ask oneself serious questions about life has an important impact.
In fact, an irony of our secularist day and age is that among those young people who attended Quigley but did not become priests, there is often a very real evangelical potential when one even finds out that “YOU DID WHAT???” Or, similarly, when people discover what that gothic building in the midst of the happenning culture downtown really is.
I don’t discount at all the refinement and value of also drawing upon those who don’t come from the “lifer” background. (Catholic gradechoool, seminary high school, seminary college and theologate). In fact, I think that they have added a greater depth of richness and experience which was much needed for the priesthood.
I also have my real concerns about much of Catholic schooling (and I’d go so far as to say that this is no small part of where Quigley’s REAL problems lie… how can you draw out vocations among the young when they haven’t been particularly well formed in the faith from an early age?)
Nonetheless, I don’t believe that we ought to give up on such an institution, either, and I think that we must respect it’s value. Let’s remember that these guys are, afterall, at a tender age and place in life as adolescents in a culture which is generally skeptical of religion. Providing an environment, then, where it’s “ok” to think about such things and ask oneself serious questions about life has an important impact.
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Norseman82
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I understand the reasoning behind this, and I do know that the “people downtown” have been complaining for years that they were not getting enough priests out of the traditional system. But I’m surprised at the “out of the blue” way this was handled. Back in 1990 at least the archdiocese gave fair warning that one of the campuses had to close, and the alumni association had a chance to appeal for financial help from its members (I recall cutting a check or two). I’m sure that if 7-figure money problems were known beforehand alumni would have stepped up before the decision was made to close. (For that matter, I haven’t even received any mailings recently from the alumni association asking for donations).
I do know that recently the church is experiencing more “second career” vocations, so to speak, but if you are talking about declining class size, my graduating class was only 46! 5 went on to be ordained, and only 1 went “straight through”. One took a few years off before going back to Niles (the precursor to St. Joseph), one re-entered seminary after being in the working world after college, and one was ordained for the LC. So just because one doesn’t go on to St. Joseph doesn’t mean that they’ve given up on the possibility of a vocation to the priesthood. Those 4 years spent there leave a mark on you that does not wash away easily.
And LOL at my Fr. Mayall’s use of the word “collide”!
I do know that recently the church is experiencing more “second career” vocations, so to speak, but if you are talking about declining class size, my graduating class was only 46! 5 went on to be ordained, and only 1 went “straight through”. One took a few years off before going back to Niles (the precursor to St. Joseph), one re-entered seminary after being in the working world after college, and one was ordained for the LC. So just because one doesn’t go on to St. Joseph doesn’t mean that they’ve given up on the possibility of a vocation to the priesthood. Those 4 years spent there leave a mark on you that does not wash away easily.
And LOL at my Fr. Mayall’s use of the word “collide”!
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chicago
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First of all, hello to a fellow Norseman! (While I didn’t graduate until after the reorganization, I started at Q-North.)
I agree that this aspect is what was most shocking and outrageous.
The question which I think should be asked if whether the powers that be (and by this I mean at higher levels than the Quigley administration) really WANTED there to be a chance to raise funds and save the school or if it was preferred to let it fall into abandonment.
Though I must ask (as a matter of institutional leadership), if there have been concerns of decline over recent years, why were the alumni and archdiocese not alerted sooner? All I heard anything about the past few years via alumni newsletters and such was how things generally were looking up and we should celebrate 100 years as an institution. Was it not the President’s job to let us know that action should be taken to redress certain concerns? Or were these not seen as signifigant concerns and only became such with the recent “report”? And if that is the matter, what led to the change in perspective? I mean, it isn’t like the numbers and realities weren’t well known quantities by the people in charge.
That said, the school does still have a multimillion (in the teens) dollar endowment which could be temporarily tapped while a fundraising and recruiting campaign (perhaps coupled with any further desired restructuring plans) might be carried out.
But, again, the idea is clearly to condemn Quigley as a drain and hopeless cause which can never again work; therefore requiring it’s shutter.
I don’t believe that to necessarily be the case and I do think that some dynamic vision coupled with necessary commitment could help it’s continued revitalization.
Well, that’s probably because there really wasn’t much of an alumni association to speak of.
The school has an alumni list and did send out an annual appeal (maybe your address wasn’t updated?) from the President. (I could tell you who to call to check on that if you like.)
But there really wasn’t a signifigant commitment on the part of the institution to redevelop an alumni organization, unfortunately. Or of the alumni ourselves, for that matter, I must say. The suggestion was occasionally bandied, but that’s about as far as it got. They did have a guy on staff (a QS alum) a few years back who tried his hardest (with some success and accomplishment) to do what was possible with his limited resources to develop better alumni relations and organization. But, ultimately, he got reassigned to a different position and that job was cut out. There were a few annual events and, naturally, reunions. Nothing which I saw as major, however. Quigley was seriously wanting in area, I thought, and that may well be one of the reasons for it’s now closing.
I’ll also go out on a limb here and suggest that so much effort was placed initially (following the reorganization) on retaining a relationship with those who were angered at the closing of Quigley South that development of relations with alumni of Quigley North was sorely lacking. What happenned, then, was that you had South guys who couldn’t have cared less about “Achbishop Quigley” and North guys who might have cared but an institution which didn’t seem to care much about working with them.
(continued)…
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Norseman82
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Oh, I know for a fact that they have my address…they sent the “demerit card paperweight” to my present address after one donation, and I did get newsletters sent to my present address. Plus, my parish pastor was my junior year English teacher.
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chicago
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While no one from my class went “straight through” and got ordained (I have to wonder how much the challenges surrounding reorganization of both Quigley and Niles/St. Joe’s had to do with this), there is one guy who is now a member of a religious order and studying for the priesthood. (They don’t include him in the bogus “one ordination in 16 years” ‘statistical’ rhetoric, either). Someone who was a couple years ahead of me is presently in the permanent deaconal training program. (Something which I suggested during my time at Quigley that they should make us more aware of, considering that more than a few of the students would not contiunue on the journey through seminary, but one day leave; eventually to get married. “These guys, nonetheless, still have an impulse and attraction towards ministry,” I noted, “and a seed should be planted for this future possibility now,” was my argument. I was rebuffed and reminded that this was not part of Quigley’s mission. All that really seemed to concern them was sending as many men as possible onto Niles.) I agree, then, that one has to look a little further and more carefully at what the Quigley experience has done (for better or for worse) to see the real fruit and results rather than simplistically counting heads.
Truer words could not be spoken. It’s a real shame that this is not reasonably valued and will soon be lost. And it is an irony that the so called “liberal” Cardinal Bernardin chose to save the seminary in some fashion whereas a man who one would think might know better in Cardinal George won’t make the same commitment.
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chicago
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HOW DO I GET ONE OF THOSE???
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Norseman82
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Apparently I sent a large enough donation one year and they must have been giving those as “thank you” presents for donations of a certain level. And I was honestly surprised to receive it, and at first I didn’t realize what it was, but once I put 2 and 2 together, I got a good chuckle.
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chicago
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Not only would it make a great conversation item (particularly among fellow alumni), but it could be a good disciplanary piece for threatening your sons with. “Don’t make me throw my demerit card at you, boy!” Hmmmmm, send the kids to your very own home made JUG for misbehaving. Now there’s an idea.
(Reminds me of our freshman orientation test from the disciplinarians. It included a question asking where, under school policy, you were allowed to go have a cigarette. Most people replied what was written in the book. “Kitty corner from the school at Pigeon Park during lunch break.” Which summarily received a red check mark wrong and the written instruction, “You’re only 14, you can’t smoke!”)
(Reminds me of our freshman orientation test from the disciplinarians. It included a question asking where, under school policy, you were allowed to go have a cigarette. Most people replied what was written in the book. “Kitty corner from the school at Pigeon Park during lunch break.” Which summarily received a red check mark wrong and the written instruction, “You’re only 14, you can’t smoke!”)
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