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Ray_Scheel
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To repeat: too many people are too comfortable in a belief that the demons can’t act in the world. Fallen angels are real. Spiritual warfare is real. Its uncomfortable, and not well respected in a society that worships science and self-advancement, but trying to trifle it off doesn’t make the bad stuff go away or less serious than it is.
To repeat again: just because some folks see things when stoned doesn’t mean that’s the only way “seeing things” can happen.
Frankly, the approach you’ve used to try to discredit the counter-evidence is totally unconvincing. You’ve heard plenty of other stories here, instances where the witneses were neither college kids nor stoned. It sounds like you probably have a recollection of an episode in your own past that spooked you enough where you are willing to look for one reason after another to dismiss the testimony of others with similar experiences to avoid facing up to the reality of what you experienced. I’ve heard enough and seen enough on my own to be convinced. For that matter, I’ve got a fallen-away brother who admits he hasn’t become a flat-out athiest because of some things he’s experienced (while sober) that left no doubt in his mind that ther is a supernatural world and lots of things in it that are not warm fuzzies.
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wabrams
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Frankly, I’ve read nothing here that discredits what I’ve stated. Young girls seeing things, college guys most likely hallucinating. It doesn’t mean anything, except over active imaginations.
I’ve experienced nothing of the sort that has spooked me. It sounds to me like I’m not the one avoiding reality. All this stuff about Ouiji Boards or the other nonsense about using mirrors, etc. to conjure up spirits is nothing more than urban legends.
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BibleReader
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wabrams, just because you haven’t seen “it” does not mean that “it” isn’t.
I swear to you that my description, up above, of what happened after my brother and sister played with a Ouija board (Post #20) is perfectly accurate.
The thing that seemed to come from the Ouija board and haunted me and two of my brothers for years was quite frightening.
I swear to you that my description, up above, of what happened after my brother and sister played with a Ouija board (Post #20) is perfectly accurate.
The thing that seemed to come from the Ouija board and haunted me and two of my brothers for years was quite frightening.
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Greg00
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How would one dismiss this Quija board story?
One woman, when 17, was told by the Quija board that her boyfriend, a solider in the Vietnam War, had been shot at by another G. The board was specific in its details; it was night,Gary was riding in a jeep with another solider, the flashlight Gary had been holding was hit, Gary had not been hurt. She wrote Gary about this, half-thinking she was crazy. But Gary ,shocked, verified that the story was true. The details were accurate; he had been shot at-while the letter was in transit…
One woman, when 17, was told by the Quija board that her boyfriend, a solider in the Vietnam War, had been shot at by another G. The board was specific in its details; it was night,Gary was riding in a jeep with another solider, the flashlight Gary had been holding was hit, Gary had not been hurt. She wrote Gary about this, half-thinking she was crazy. But Gary ,shocked, verified that the story was true. The details were accurate; he had been shot at-while the letter was in transit…
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Ray_Scheel
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I do find myself wondering how you are so sure the guy I was talking to was stoned, considering he’d just gotten in from class and all, or how exactly that explains how the board got itself out of the closet twice, once after he put it up again himself.
If you’ve got to tune out or make up additional details to explain away one event after another, you’ve discredited yourself. The Envoy article points to a broader spectrum of witnesses than just young girls and college kids. For that matter just the posts in this thread point to a broader spectum of witnesses than the two groups you’ve isolated to try dismiss the group by casting doubt on the credibility of individual types of witnesses, with experience recounted while both teens and adults on top of as younger kids(both boys and girls) or while in college.
Sure, its possible to have questions about isolated stories, and a healthy skepticism is a good thing. However, dismissing all the episodes doesn’t work when its just your say-so that it isn’t so against that of dozens of witnesses (especially when your position requires consistently taking the worst possible view of the winesses) .
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wabrams
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How are you so sure they weren’t, or it wasn’t just a prank call? You never knew anybody in college that went to class stoned? Did you see the board get itself out of the closet? I’ve sworn I’ve put stuff away only to find it sitting out later. Have you ever had a task that needs to be completed constantly run through your head, then you just forget it, but swear later you did in fact complete that task?
How do you figure I’m discrediting myself? If I don’t believe in UFO’s b/c of thousands upon thousands of eye witness accounts, does this mean I’m discredting myself?
That article contains references kids, so you are mistaken on that point. Do you have a link to any other articles that aren’t from a religious source?
Again, if thousands of people see lights in the sky and claim they’re UFO’s, does this make it now a fact?
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johnq
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This is exactly what people were saying about the children at Fatima. :yup:
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johnq
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Wabrams, why must the source be a secular source?
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wabrams
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Balanced view point. Why must it only be religious?
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johnq
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Does the Church support your view point?
Do people use the game to conjure spirits or to reveal the future? If they do, is it a sin?
Thank you for your answers.
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johnq
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I see. I think neither of us are rejecting one source or accepting only one.
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wabrams
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Not to be disrespectful, but I’m not really that concerned if the Church thinks there is a danger in parlor tricks.
I think people play these games out of curiousity and the fact that most consider it taboo, so they think it would be fun to try it. They try it, and for most nothing happens and they find it boring very quickly. For others they are so keyed up or so sure something will happen that in their mind something does happen.
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johnq
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Thank you for the response. Could you please answer the question.
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wabrams
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I believe some people TRY to use it to conjure up spirits or reveal the future. Same goes for psychics, palm readers, and tarot card dealers. I think it is only a sin if you truly believe it will work.
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johnq
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I see that you are not Catholic. Some of our Protestant and Catholic brothers and sisters do not realize that when the Church speaks on faith and morals She is doing so as the pillar and foundation of truth as is revealed in sacred scripture. (Tim 3:15) When the Church speaks, She speaks for Christ. Why do you think the Catholic Church rejects all forms of magic and diviation? It is because scripture and/or sacred tradition reveals this to us.
Deut 18:
10 1 Let there not be found among you anyone who immolates his son or daughter in the fire, nor a fortune-teller, soothsayer, charmer, diviner, 11 or caster of spells, nor **one who consults ghosts and spirits or seeks oracles from the dead. **12 Anyone who does such things is an abomination to the LORD, and because of such abominations the LORD, your God, is driving these nations out of your way.
Does scripture agree with your statement stating it is a sin only if you “truly believe it will work?” If I try to kill someone but believe it will not truly work because it was a weak attempt, is that a sin?
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wabrams
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If you must know, I attend Mass, will be starting RCIA after Labor Day, and will be married to my Catholic fiance in a Catholic Church in March.
The same could be said about anyone who puts money, tv, video games, etc. before Christ. They are all false idols in a sense.
Isn’t a major component of sin intent?
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vienna
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When I was in college living on campus I had a friend who was blind and had an assistance dog. One night she asked me to stay with her dog while she went upstairs to visit friends. I said OK and, as usual, stayed up way late studying or pursuing some hobbies. At 3 a.m. the dog suddenly became very agitated and began whining and barking, so I shut her in my room and went up and knocked on the door of my friend’s friends. Instantly all three girls let out the most horrible shriek. After a pause, one of them very cautiously opened the door a crack and seemed relieved that it was me. I apologized and explained the problem, and my friend came down and got her dog.
Later she told me that they had been using a Ouija board and had used it to receive „answers“ (allegedly) from Satan, who when I knocked had just finished „telling“ them he was coming to them. It spooked me to remember how I had played with such a board as a child, because it seemed the dog, like Balaam’s donkey, had somehow sensed a danger to which I was completely oblivious.
Later she told me that they had been using a Ouija board and had used it to receive „answers“ (allegedly) from Satan, who when I knocked had just finished „telling“ them he was coming to them. It spooked me to remember how I had played with such a board as a child, because it seemed the dog, like Balaam’s donkey, had somehow sensed a danger to which I was completely oblivious.
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Gerry_Hunter
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Are you interested in being my bank manager? By your logic, if I wrote a cheque for several million dollars, you’d have to honour it if I truly believed it was good.
My youngest (daughter) had a run-in with those things. She was in grade school (grade 5 or so), and at recess, a group of other girls her age were gathered in a group. When she approached them, she saw they were fiddling with a ouija board. She wanted nothing to do with it, already being a Christian in her outlook, and was about to turn away, when one of the girls, who was normally quite shy, looked at her from the group sitting around it and said, If you break our circle, we will kill you.
The assessment of these things as mere hoaxes, parlour games, or nonsense, is certainly accurate on the secular and scientific level. But that truth is incomplete, because there is more happening with them than secular or scientific considerations can examine. Dismissing them as harmless is like saying a loaded gun is safe because it can’t poison you.
The operative principle here is that one must give consent to the devil and his minions before they can influence you. They can tempt without permission, certainly, but that’s as far as they can go. Messing with a ouija board is giving that permission.
Even with permission being given, a spiritual cynic may well be simply let be by the evil one. It may suit him not to disrupt someone who is on a path perfectly suitable to his purposes. But that is a huge gamble.
Blessings,
Gerry
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johnq
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Congratulations! :clapping: Welcome home. I am glad you shared this information. I will definitely keep you in our prayers.
True, they all can be false idols.
Yes, it is.
In your statement, you said they try. If they are trying then they have intent. It does not matter if they believe it will work. It is still a sin.
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