Quija Boards

[wabrams]

johnq:

. In your statement, you said they try. If they are trying then they have intent. It does not matter if they believe it will work. It is still a sin.

I think something is being lost in translation here. If I sit down with my buddies to use a ouija board, all of us knowing it’s just a parlor game, and one of us makes it move or nothing happens, then I don’t think it is a sin.

Same scenario but we all believe there is something to it, that perhaps we can conjour up spirits, and whether something happens or not, it is a sin because we thought we might be able to contact the dead. Our intent at that point was to contact something on the otherside if you will.

Interesting side note: a lot of studies have been done on ouija boards. I believe in most cases that when the participants were blind folded, and the pointer moved, the words spelled out meant nothing. The letters never even added up to something that resembled a word. When the blind folds were removed, all kinds of weird words were spelled and questions answered. Even if the participants don’t consciously move it, they do it unconsciously. It’s called an ideomotor effect.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

wabrams:

Interesting side note: a lot of studies have been done on ouija boards. I believe in most cases that when the participants were blind folded, and the pointer moved, the words spelled out meant nothing. The letter snever even added up to something that resembled a word. When the blind folds were removed, all kinds of weird words were spelled and questions answered.

Not at all a surprising result. The devil – and for that matter, the angels – influence us through our minds and bodies, not primarily through the manipulation of inert matter. The blindfold thwarts that influence.

Once again, one cannot completely examine the ouija board, and other such things, through scientific approaches alone – and I say that as a working scientist. Science is just not equipped to do such a complete examination.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[wabrams]

Gerry Hunter:

Not at all a surprising result. The devil – and for that matter, the angels – influence us through our minds and bodies, not primarily through the manipulation of inert matter. The blindfold thwarts that influence.

How in the world would a blindfold thwart the devil or an angel?
Gerry Hunter:

Once again, one cannot completely examine the ouija board, and other such things, through scientific approaches alone – and I say that as a working scientist. Science is just not equipped to do such a complete examination.

Blessings,

Gerry

Guess you could say the same thing about depression, schizophrenia, etc.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

wabrams:

How in the world would a blindfold thwart the devil or an angel?

How does a blindfold interfere with demonic influence when using an ouija board? By the same limitation that interferes with brainwashing a deaf person by talking to them. When blindfolded, the ability to influence the person has been cut off, they have no point of reference to be influenced from and can’t register what they might be influenced to.

wabrams:

Guess you could say the same thing about depression, schizophrenia, etc.

Studies attempting to utilize the scientific method to “study” supernatural influences are inherently flawed, because, by defiition, the scientific method can only answer questions about the natural world. Meanwhile, its certainly an appropriate tool to use to measure the impact of symptoms and treatments for disorders of the psychiatric spectrum.

Again, cases where unexplanable things didn’t happen to try to claim all uses of these boards are explanable. If there were no counter-examples, that logic might suggest that the boards were just a parlor trick, as that conclusion is suitable based on just the example you are relying on. However, that doesn’t address cases of boards getting themselves out of closets, or explosions, rooms suddenly dropping in temperature (and suddenly rising again when a crucifix was brought out) and so on… Those are things outside of the ability of a “study” to explain away.

 

[wabrams]

Ray_Scheel:

How does a blindfold interfere with demonic influence when using an ouija board? By the same limitation that interferes with brainwashing a deaf person by talking to them. When blindfolded, the ability to influence the person has been cut off, they have no point of reference to be influenced from and can’t register what they might be influenced to.

So the influence can only come when the actual user is able to see? Not when someone else is in the room studying what is going on? Sure, I believe that.

Ray_Scheel:

Studies attempting to utilize the scientific method to “study” supernatural influences are inherently flawed, because, by defiition, the scientific method can only answer questions about the natural world. Meanwhile, its certainly an appropriate tool to use to measure the impact of symptoms and treatments for disorders of the psychiatric spectrum.

And the effects of using a ouija board, in the clinical studies, have shown that it’s just pyschiatric.

Again, cases where unexplanable things didn’t happen to try to claim all uses of these boards are explanable. If there were no counter-examples, that logic might suggest that the boards were just a parlor trick, as that conclusion is suitable based on just the example you are relying on. However, that doesn’t address cases of boards getting themselves out of closets, or explosions, rooms suddenly dropping in temperature (and suddenly rising again when a crucifix was brought out) and so on… Those are things outside of the ability of a “study” to explain away.

Which again is most likely a pyschiatric reaction. It’s funny how in a controlled enviroment with a researcher present, such things don’t happen. But when a couple of people get together in private, all sorts of strange things happen; you know, bumps in the night.

 

[Writer]

katieq:

Ouija boards are far too real and of grave danger to your soul (as you are “letting in” spirits (clearly not of divine, but of evil nature)). Run away, and keep your friends/loved-ones away!!

I would suggest that the boards are probably a gateway to the Occult–like pot is referred to as a gateway drug. Anyone know anything about those water-finding rods? I can’t remember what they’re called, but an older relative of mine who used to be a rancher says they work…

 

[wabrams]

Writer:

I would suggest that the boards are probably a gateway to the Occult–like pot is referred to as a gateway drug. Anyone know anything about those water-finding rods? I can’t remember what they’re called, but an older relative of mine who used to be a rancher says they work…

They’re called a dowsing rod, dowsing stick, doodlebug (when used to locate oil) or divining rod.

 

[LindaS]

It proves nothing at all if the board “worked” some of the time and didn’t work other times. If the occult is of Satan, can he not choose when to work and when not to work? In one of the Surprised by Truth books, #2, I think, there is a compelling story by Paul Thigpen about his experiences with the occult. I, for one, do not feel comfortable with the idea of using any occult device.

Peace,
Linda

 

[Greg00]

Couldn’t it be possible that the reason strange things don’t happen in a controlled environment with a quija board don’t happen is because the devil wants people to believe that it’s just a parlor trick so more people would use it? I don’t, too many strange things have happened for me to just simply dismiss it.

 

[Fox]

Wabrams,
Riddle me this, here is my story. I was around 19 or so when I had my first taste of the Quija board. I was at my german girlfriend’s house in her room, and it was just two of us. We were discussing things and it led to Quija boards, I told her this was all full of junk (I used another word).

Well she busted out the board because we were curious and she had one a while back, so we were messing about with it. Apparently we got in contact with a few spirits but I know they were demons. The last we got in contact with was a molester, at it said it was, and it started to spout obscene things.

Well we were getting freaked out, and it told my girlfriend to take her hands off the little planchette, so she obiliged but, she stay sitting by me. Well it was me and “it” now. I know I did not move my hands, “it” was moving them about on the board, basically “it” told me to go bleep myself. I let go of the planchette and that was that.

Now my question is to you Wab, why would I spell an obscenity to myself? It was just me and the board, my girlfriend wasn’t around to move it at all.

I am lucky something else didn’t come down the pipe or I’d really be hosed. Stay away from the boards please.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

wabrams:

So the influence can only come when the actual user is able to see? Not when someone else is in the room studying what is going on? Sure, I believe that.

What’s not to believe about a person only being subject to an influence they can experience?

wabrams:

And the effects of using a ouija board, in the clinical studies, have shown that it’s just pyschiatric.

Again, scientific studies cannot, by the very nature of the scientific method, establish anything about how the supernatural world works. Continuing to invoke the limitations of the scientific method’s ability to measure something supernatural so as to try to impose a limitation on the supernatural is illogical - that simply can’t be done, not logically, anway, at least if you believe there could be a supernatural world.

wabrams:

Which again is most likely a pyschiatric reaction. It’s funny how in a controlled enviroment with a researcher present, such things don’t happen. But when a couple of people get together in private, all sorts of strange things happen; you know, bumps in the night.

Well, if you are convinced the devil isn’t smart enough to keep his operations “in the dark” when he wants to, we are going to have to agree to disagree. Personally, he seem s plenty smart enough to not deliberately blow his cover on what experience shows is an effective way to get into people’s thoughts. Really, if a study did prove “A demon is likely to try to influence you if you do X”, how effective is that method going to be for any sould who’s even heard a rumor of that finding? Dumbing down the devil’s capabilities isn’t a healthy way to evaluate potential spiritual threats.

 

[oat_soda]

there is so much evidence that points to the dangers of the ouija board that i have to believe they are bad news. my friend messed around with one back in military academy and had a bad experience with one. most exocist say that most pocessions are a result of the ocult, especially the ouija board. the evidence is overwhelming.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

wabrams:

How in the world would a blindfold thwart the devil or an angel?

By denying either one the use of a person’s faculties, as every person can also do by an act of will. This is the same principle that the Church teaches: To avoid sin, avoid the OCCASIONS OF sin. If you avoid the occasion of permitting influence by the devil, you deny him the chance to influence. Blindfolded people cannot see messages that would tempt.

Also, the devil has angelic intelligence, and is quite happy to hide his presence until it is opportune to act. Convinving someone that an occasion of sin is not an occasion of sin is an ideal way to facilitate a later opportunity for strong temptation.

wabrams:

Guess you could say the same thing about depression, schizophrenia, etc.

Those are natural problems, that science hasn’t fully understood, not supernatural ones, that science is not equipped to examine…

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[wabrams]

Man, you all are very superstitious. If you say something happened to you, then fine. But I think it’s all subconscious.

 

[Gerry_Hunter]

wabrams:

Man, you all are very superstitious. If you say something happened to you, then fine. But I think it’s all subconscious.

That comment borders on the abusive, particularly when one of those to whom it is addressed has been identified as a working scientist. It appears that to deal with the supernatural in terms of the supernatural, rather than restricting the discussion to the material and natural is to be branded as superstitious.

The observations on the dangers of ouija boards, and other such things, echo the teachings of the Church, and they are therefore anything but superstition.

Blessings,

Gerry

 

[batteddy]

I think something is being lost in translation here. If I sit down with my buddies to use a ouija board, all of us knowing it’s just a parlor game, and one of us makes it move or nothing happens, then I don’t think it is a sin.

I agree. BUT, you can never know your friends intentions for sure. But I think it is reasonable to believe you can trust them.

I mean is dressing up in capes and pretending to do magic spells as a wizard game bad? Not necessarily.

I think it all intends on the intent.

 

[Tasha]

Hi Everyone,

I see a few posts back someone asking about dowsing rods for locating water. Are these bad, too? I also have a friend who uses a pendulum to determine food allergies. And she uses it to figure out what vitamins to take or not take. I guess it is a tool for tapping the subconscious. Is that against the teachings of the Church?

Thanks, Tasha

 

[wabrams]

Gerry Hunter:

That comment borders on the abusive, particularly when one of those to whom it is addressed has been identified as a working scientist.

Abusive? Hardly, just a personal opinion. I’m not attacking anyone’s character, but we all seem to disagree, which is fine. I am a little shocked a working scientist would put a whole lot of stock in the matter.
Gerry Hunter:

It appears that to deal with the supernatural in terms of the supernatural, rather than restricting the discussion to the material and natural is to be branded as superstitious.

One person’s superstition is another’s belief. Some aethiests say us Christiona’s are superstitious, but we know we’re not. To each his own.
Gerry Hunter:

The observations on the dangers of ouija boards, and other such things, echo the teachings of the Church, and they are therefore anything but superstition.

And this could also be the reason people think things happen when they might not; if you are told the same thing over and over, you do start to believe. Maybe we should just agree to disagree.

 

[wabrams]

batteddy:

I agree. BUT, you can never know your friends intentions for sure. But I think it is reasonable to believe you can trust them.

I mean is dressing up in capes and pretending to do magic spells as a wizard game bad? Not necessarily.

I think it all intends on the intent.

I agree with you on that.

 

[Ray_Scheel]

wabrams:

Abusive? Hardly, just a personal opinion. I’m not attacking anyone’s character, but we all seem to disagree, which is fine. I am a little shocked a working scientist would put a whole lot of stock in the matter.

What exactly makes you so sure the working methods of science are appliable to a study of the supernatural, despite the built in limitation of the various scientific models to inspecting measurable (that is, strictly natural) attributes?

The way your responses are coming across, you are trying to use a teaspoon to measure the depth of a cave. Though a teaspoon is a legitimate measuring device, its not the right tool for the job at hand.

Unless you’ve got a working method that has been shown to be able to measure spiritual activitiy, it is nonsense to say that you adhere to a belief system that includes a supernatural world which interacts with our more limited experience, but that you disbelieve in anything supernatural influencing this world until its proven by strictly natural means. Those two ideas cannot be reconciled.

Ultimately the supernatural is the most serious thing there is about our lives, we’ve only got a few years in these husks, but eternity is, well, forever. Yes, some folks can take the superstitious stuff too far and live their lives in constant fear and suspicion of a demon behind every negative event, but it is just as bad to discount ways demons have been known to work.