Quran 5:116

[Sister_Amy]

Leave to God to clarify history, huh? One has to wonder then why “God” would have waited +/- 600 years to correct this incredibly important piece of Biblical history.

As a counterpoint, in the Bible, when Jesus is answering a question about the old law that permitted divorce, He tells His questioner that it is out of the hardness of man’s heart that divorce had been allowed. What reasoning is given in the Qur’an for allowing a significant portion of humanity to persist in error for so long, even to the extent of building a religion around this error?

Allah does not force people to believe.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Christianity teaches that Jesus was crucified. All four Gospels record the crucifixion. Later, He rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven.

But Muhammad said that Christ was not crucified. Islam and the Quran deny the crucifixion. Muhammad appeared on the scene about 600 years after Jesus.

Muhammad claimed to receive ‘revelations’ from Allah, given to him through Gabriel. One of Muhammad’s revelations was that Jesus was not crucified. Yet the evidence from both the New Testament, and other historical sources state that Christ was crucified.

Here is what is interesting since you asked “who else actually witnessed”…

""Evidence from the JEWISH SOURCES:

Talmud, b. Sanhedrin 43a: “On the eve of the Passover Yeshu [Jesus] was hanged [or crucified]. … Since nothing was brought forward in his favor he was hanged on the eve of the Passover.”

The Amoa “Ulla” (Ulla was a disciple of Youchanan and lived in Palestine at the end of the third century) adds: "And do you suppose that for (Yeshu of Nazareth - Jesus) there was any right of appeal? He was a beguiler, and the Merciful One hath said: “Thou shalt not spare neither shalt thou conceal him.” It is otherwise with Yeshu, for He was near to the civil authority.

Note here that the writers of the Talmud took their job seriously. These men were Jews, not Christians, and they documented Christ’s crucifixion.""

""EVIDENCE FROM ROMAN SOURCES:

Cornelius Tacitus in his Annals, xv. 44: “Christus … was executed at the hands of the procurator Pontious Pilate.”

Lucian of Samosata: “(Christ was) the man who was crucified in Palestine”

Note here that these men were professional historians. They researched their work before publishing it. They also documented Christ’s crucifixion.

Therefore, three types of witness all of whom are from the 1st or early 2nd century have been presented.""

I’m sorry to inform you that this kind of analysis is entirely unnecessary to the discussion at hand. You merely have historians who are reporting that they have eyewitness accounts. And they are all dead.

What Islam has, on the other hand, is the testimony of God Almighty! Can you argue with that? Can you say, “No, God, it didn’t really happen that way?”

 

[athair_siochain]

(bold is my emphasis)

Eyewitnesses, whom you Muslims are always discrediting. Ironicallty, your religion has no eyewitneses to Jesus’ Passion. But Christianity dose. So which, historically speaking, is more credible and believe, Christianity or Islam? It is Christianity, of course.

God forgive you, and bless you.

God is the witness.

One does not have to belong to a members only GOD CLUB to be loved by God,

which is more credible Christianity or Islam>>>>> maybe a headcount of all the innocent people who have been butchered, could determine the winner,

Loving God is what is important,

Loving your neighbour is important,

 

[Sister_Amy]

Do you consider this a rational belief? People are alive in the grave? Buried alive? If he’s alive, why is he in a grave? And you want us to believe that the teachings of Islam make sense?

Vickie

I’m thankful I don’t have to rely on people like you to interpret things. Where you came up with that, I’ll never know. If you need help, you can probably ask inJESUS who I think actually has a pretty good understanding of what barzakh is.

Muslims believe in a life in the womb, a life on the earth, a life in the grave, and a life in the Hereafter. The life in the grave, is what a person experiences after his life in this world, but before he is resurrected. Muslims believe that everyone dies, and that everyone will be resurrected on one day, the Day of Resurrection, on which they’ll be held accountable for their lives.

And that seems to be a perfectly sensible belief.

But it’s not because it makes rational sense that I believe it. I also believe that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead but that’s not rational either.

 

[Eucharisted]

This is a common myth among Christians, that it has eyewitnesses. But I am not here to argue about Christianity.

And next you’re going to say the gospels were invented by the Church, right?

Look, why don’t you study Christianity instead of relying on what Islam teaches about Christianity? Than you’ll actually have something intelligent to say to Christians.

If you want to know the historicity of the gospels, I suggest www.newadvent.org The articles there are timeless and include cited works.

 

[Booklover]

This is a common myth among Christians, that it has eyewitnesses. But I am not here to argue about Christianity.

Allah is an Eye-Witness to everything in the universe. Even the life of Jesus, the plot to kill him, and what really happened.

Where are the eyewitnesses that saw the Angel Gabriel speak to Muhammad?

Vickie

 

[Booklover]

I’m thankful I don’t have to rely on people like you to interpret things. Where you came up with that, I’ll never know. If you need help, you can probably ask inJESUS who I think actually has a pretty good understanding of what barzakh is.

Muslims believe in a life in the womb, a life on the earth, a life in the grave, and a life in the Hereafter. The life in the grave, is what a person experiences after his life in this world, but before he is resurrected. Muslims believe that everyone dies, and that everyone will be resurrected on one day, the Day of Resurrection, on which they’ll be held accountable for their lives.

And that seems to be a perfectly sensible belief.

But it’s not because it makes rational sense that I believe it. I also believe that Jesus raised Lazarus from the dead but that’s not rational either.

Still doesn’t make sense!

Vickie

 

[Sister_Amy]

And next you’re going to say the gospels were invented by the Church, right?

Nope. Never said that, never planned to.

Look, why don’t you study Christianity instead of relying on what Islam teaches about Christianity? Than you’ll actually have something intelligent to say to Christians.

If I wanted to learn about Christianity, I would. But you should know that I was raised a Christian, went to a Christian school, and have taken university courses on Christianity. My knowledge of Christianity, therefore, has not been through Islam.

If you want to know the historicity of the gospels, I suggest www.newadvent.org The articles there are timeless and include cited works.

And I suggest you read “Misquoting Jesus” by Dr. Bart Ehrman. An excellent read.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Where are the eyewitnesses that saw the Angel Gabriel speak to Muhammad?

Vickie

I’ve listed eight on this very forum. Did you forget?

Umm Salamah, 'Umar ibn al-Khattab, Abu Hurayrah, Ibn 'Abbas, Anas bin Malik, Jareer bin 'Abdallah, Abu Dharr, and Abu Maalik Al-Ashja’ee.

 

[Steven_John]

If you want to know the historicity of the gospels, I suggest www.newadvent.org The articles there are timeless and include cited works.

Why do people do this, this url does not explain the history of the gospels.

It may be on the site some where but if you want to VERY weakly support an argument why not just say look it up in google.

If it is offered by some one the Quran is a first recitation of Gods word to them it would be more credible than a narrative written some 30 years and more after events, the gospels.

In reading them we can see they contain much more than the author would have personally witnessed.

We also need to be mindful that most people on this forum will only have four of them when there are many more but they can appear to get very contradictory as all gospels are narrative.
Even the four can appear it first to be different ie did Jesus (pbwh) have a 1 or 3 year ministry on earth?

Now the Quran that is in peoples hands today is supposed by some to be not exactly what was recited.

I have heard it said that a goat has eaten a chapter.

I have heard it said that a king of old was concerned about variations growing in copies and promptly had its chapters collated in an attempt to preserve it in one form and get it published so all could have it. He went further to have destroyed other copies retaining only a single collection of source docs.

Worth noting there should be at least one other some where as we need at least two.

I have read from it don’t believe it is as God gave it (please dont be offended) it seems to jump around as if it is at least out of order.

Now i have raved all this to offer no one can prove they have perfect scripture to guide.

So argue not after offering the truth to each other as you understand it.
God does not want you to do this.
I am no scholar just a poor fisherman who prays some.

Both Muslims and Christians were supposed to have been warned by flesh (men) after Jesus (pbwh) was no longer with you in flesh.

A man seen as a great apostle (pbuh) was to offer dont argue over words.
A man seen as a prophet (pbuh) was to offer you to gently warn each other with the truth.

Why are you hear?

to tear each other down? No Way The dark one wants you to do this.

to build each other up? Of course,
the purpose of being in flesh is to worship God

So seek Gods goodness in each other and praise Him for it.

do not waste the gift of life given to you intentionally looking for error / darkness in each other for if you beat up the blind and the deaf they do not see and hear.
But the dark one ads weight to his argument that we are not worthy of the status given us by God.

In closing FOR us it is not about who has the best book,
its about the fruit YOU produce and we have watched men kill and beat up on men in the name of Christianity and Islam.

On this site some plant good seeds.

May you all be judged by your good intentions and blessed by your good actions toward each other.

 

[Steven_John]

May you all and God forgive me as His sword has two edges

 

[Lapell]

I’m sorry to inform you that this kind of analysis is entirely unnecessary to the discussion at hand. You merely have historians who are reporting that they have eyewitness accounts. And they are all dead.

What Islam has, on the other hand, is the testimony of God Almighty! Can you argue with that? Can you say, “No, God, it didn’t really happen that way?”

How do you KNOW that Islam truly HAS the testimony of God Almighty? And how do you KNOW for certain that His testimony is more accurate in the Qu’ran than in the Christian Bible in the things that differ from one to the other? Not only the Christian eye-witnesses of the past have died, but the so did the eye-witnesses of the beginnings of Islam, haven’t they?
In the end, however, there is such a thing as the objective Truth.
In the end, we will see It for what It truly is, was and ever shall be.
Who shall stand before God when He appears on the Latter Day?
Better to walk the walk than to just talk and talk! Mere talk is cheap!
If we are truly followers of the One True God, let’s live our faith accordingly, whoever we are! Let us remain seekers of God even after we have found Him (or thought we did, at the very least)…

 

[Lapell]

I believe those involved in inter-religious dialogue already know that we might always diverge on matters of what our respective faiths teach us. This is not where we can agree without fighting against one another. It’s rather on common action to help the people of our common society.
If we limit ourselves on threads like this to genuinely ask for information or try to provide the asked information, very well!
But too often the questions asked seem raised just to try to make the other group fall, or to set them a trap. I ask you: is this a conduct pleasing to the One True God? We’d better let God show to all of us the Truth, the Real Truth, the Whole Truth (or more exactly what we need to know from it…)

 

[Christ_Is_Life]

I’ve listed eight on this very forum. Did you forget?

Umm Salamah, 'Umar ibn al-Khattab, Abu Hurayrah, Ibn 'Abbas, Anas bin Malik, Jareer bin 'Abdallah, Abu Dharr, and Abu Maalik Al-Ashja’ee.

I’ve come into this debate late so I don’t know what you listed. I have to say this every Prophet performed a miricle and that miracle was witnessed by at least one person, it was a signiture of proof of their prophethood. What miracle did Mohammed perform and who witnessed it?

I’ll save you a couple of answers. With respect the Quran itself doesn’t count because that is a play on words, at best it’s like hearing a child sing well and saying, ‘Wow that’s a miracle!’ but it’s not a miracle in literal terms.

Secondly, Mohammed himself states that in the Quran that he never performed a miracle, instead he states that the Quran is a miracle. So please feel free to explain how Mohammed is a prophet by the standards set by all other prophets or did God change his mind again?

 

[Steven_John]

For clarification and Biblical support, please see scripturecatholic.com/saints.html.

the first line of this

Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family (“Catholic”) in heaven and on earth,…

Is in error

The word (“Catholic”) is a modification of the book i have and shows to me bias of the author rather than assistance to understanding for the reader.

Those that are of the way wanting to assist understanding should insert (“catholic”) meaning universal.

From my experience Catholics understand non Catholics can be a part of the accord of souls referred to in this scripture.

 

[Lapell]

Muslims believe in a life in the womb, a life on the earth, a life in the grave, and a life in the Hereafter. The life in the grave, is what a person experiences after his life in this world, but before he is resurrected. Muslims believe that everyone dies, and that everyone will be resurrected on one day, the Day of Resurrection, on which they’ll be held accountable for their lives.

And that seems to be a perfectly sensible belief.

Don’t the practicing Christians and the observant Jews also believe all this? For once there is a common ground, it seems…
Hi, Sister Amy, nice to read you again.

 

[Jay53]

jay53, I see through you,

now if you were to read the verse above in Arabic, you may understand,

just as I understand your forked tongue. I see through you

The verse is about seeing through deception. understanding truth. it is not about insulting the trinity, it is Christians who assume a wrong has been done, because they believe differently, the rules of their Church do not apply to any other church,

 

[ralphinal]

Don’t ask me…

 

[morning_star777]

Oh Allah–bestow mercy on Muhammad and on the family of Muhammad like you bestowed mercy on Abraham and the family of Abraham. Indeed you (oh Allah) are most Praiseworthy, most Glorious.

Tell me to whom this prayer is directed? Maybe, since you don’t know Arabic, you don’t know the meaning of the durood, and you mistakenly thought it was a prayer to Muhammad. But clearly it is a prayer only to Allah. The meaning of Allahumma is “O Allah.”

The beginning of the hail Mary prayer starts out with “Hail Mary.” That’s exactly the problem. If only you knew.

So what sister? Your sinless prophet needs prayer for himself,and we need prayer for us(because we are sinner).So You(muslims) pray for your prophet,but we ask our saints to pray for us.And Hail Mary?i do not know what’s wrong with this word “Hail”.But indeed it is not prayer because you know people also said Hail the king or hail victorious etc etc.So it is not prayer.And you are correct I only can read arabic with symbols,and without symbol I can not read Arabic.And I can not understand Arabic.I read all islamic scriptures in my native language bangla.But I guess I am not wrong totally because in Durood atleast you pray for muhammed(And though muslims do not say hail muhammed but they sometimes praise muhammed more than allah),But we are sinner and Mary is sinless,saints are God’s special people and vicar,so we ask them to pray for us to God.So what’s wrong with it?

 

[morning_star777]

Oh sister amy,I heard another Durood but I do not know its meaning also.So will you kindly tell me what is the meaning of this durood?
Balagal ula be kamalihi,kashfat doo Ja be Jamalihi… .
If you know then please tell me.Is it also praise to allah?5-6 years ago it was very favorite in bangladesh.I do not know the present condition.So if you know then please let me know the meaning of this full Durood.