Quran 5:116

[Jay53]

What exactly does this verse mean:

[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?’ " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

What did Muhammad and/or Allah mean by this? Jesus obviously never said this. Was this Muhammad’s misinterpretation of the Trinity - that Mary was part of it? If so, why would this be in the Quran if the Quran is the infallible word of God? God, since he is omniscient, would have known that the Trinity did not include Mary and that Christians did not and had never worshipped Mary as part of the Trinity. Sometimes I am just so confused?!? Even if this is a jab at the Catholic reverence for Mary, we still don’t and have never put her “beside” God; and Muslims, I thought, had just as much reverence for Mary (although admittedly just as the mother of Jesus, the prophet and not as she is, the mother of Jesus, the Son of God.)

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… we still don’t and have never put her “beside” God;

In Islam , if you/we pray to anyone except God is called shirk/blashphemy. It’s the major sin & if we die without repentance , only punishment is eternal fire.

Christians give much importances on Mother Mary (p) ; they make statue of her for worship purpose , they pray to her.…it’s called worship/ take deity besides God.

If Muslims make statue of Muhammed (p) & pray to him , that will be also considered as the most major sin.

and Muslims, I thought, had just as much reverence for Mary

it’s part of our faith to respect Jesus & Mary (peace be upon them). We are not allowed to make statues of them & worship them besides God.

 

[Jay53]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

In Islam , if you/we pray to anyone except God is called shirk/blashphemy. It’s the major sin & if we die without repentance , only punishment is eternal fire.

Christians give much importances on Mother Mary (p) ; they make statue of her for worship purpose , they pray to her.…it’s called worship/ take deity besides God.

IT IS NOT!!! We DON’T pray to her for worship - we pray for her intercession to God - we ask her to pray to God for us. She is obviously NOT God, she is a servant of God and that is NOT taking deity besides God.

If Muslims make statue of Muhammed (p) & pray to him , that will be also considered as the most major sin.

it’s part of our faith to respect Jesus & Mary (peace be upon them). We are not allowed to make statues of them & worship them besides God.

And, while I appreciate your post, it didn’t answer my question: What does this verse mean? God KNOWS (since He knows everything) that Catholics/Christians don’t “worship” Mary. Only humans think this - so why is this in the Quran if it is the word of God?

 

[Muslim_Woman]

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Salaam/peace

… What does this verse mean?

Christians pray to Jesus & Mary (pbut). God warned not to do the blasphemy. On the last day , Jesus (p) will testify against those Christians who worshipped him & his mother.

God KNOWS (since He knows everything) that Catholics/Christians don’t “worship” Mary.

already explained. If you pray to Jesus or Mary (pbut) , it’s the worship / take deities besides God.

 

[Jay53]

http://theislampath.com/smf/Smileys/default/salam.gif

Salaam/peace

Christians pray to Jesus & Mary (pbut). God warned not to do the blasphemy. On the last day , Jesus (p) will testify against those Christians who worshipped him & his mother.

That’s not possible. Jesus is the one who said “I am the way, the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.” John 14:6

already explained. If you pray to Jesus or Mary (pbut) , it’s the worship / take deities besides God.

I appreciate your effort and thank you for it, but this appears to be a circular and fruitless discussion. Perhaps someone else can add to the discussion.

 

[swariffin]

What exactly does this verse mean:

[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?’ " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

The sentence is the imagination of Muhammad. No such word ever come out of Jesus. In other word, Muhammad made a groundless accusation.

 

[Jay53]

The sentence is the imagination of Muhammad. No such word ever come out of Jesus. In other word, Muhammad made a groundless accusation.

This is my contention. It would seem to me that logically this verse proves that the Quran did not come from God. Catholics and Christians DO NOT worship Mary. (I don’t know of any religion that does.) Therefore, only humans would make this accusation. God would not because He knows that Catholics/Christians do not worship Mary. He is omniscient so He knows everything. Therefore, this verse is strictly from Muhammad who did not understand this aspect of Christianity. If this verse is proven to not be from God, it puts all the other verses in question too. This is why I do not understand any of this. ??

 

[ralphinal]

The Qur’an was given to Muhammed after the Trinity had been taught for hundreds of years and after it had been defined. Allah should have known what Christians said the Trinity was.

 

[Ag_not]

they make statue of her for worship purpose , they pray to her.…it’s called worship/ take deity besides God.

You have been on these boards for five months or so. Can you really be that ignorant of what Catholics believe? You expect, quite rightly, for all non muslims on here to respect muslims and their beliefs and engage in fruitful dialogue.

Is it too much for catholics to expect you, as a muslim, to appraise yourself of catholic beliefs before throwing out the same old tiresome, untrue accusations against them?

That catholics do not deitise Mary has been addressed on these boards tens of thousands of times.

Your statement shows either total ignorance on your part, inexcusable since youve been conversing with catholics for 5 months, or a deliberate beligerance on your part towards catholics.

 

[emarc]

You have been on these boards for five months or so. Can you really be that ignorant of what Catholics believe? You expect, quite rightly, for all non muslims on here to respect muslims and their beliefs and engage in fruitful dialogue.

Is it too much for catholics to expect you, as a muslim, to appraise yourself of catholic beliefs before throwing out the same old tiresome, untrue accusations against them?

That catholics do not deitise Mary has been addressed on these boards tens of thousands of times.

Your statement shows either total ignorance on your part, inexcusable since youve been conversing with catholics for 5 months, or a deliberate beligerance on your part towards catholics.

and God said, “This is my beloved Son with whom I am pleased, listen to him.” (Matt 17:5). do muslims believe that our God, the God of abraham, jacob and isaac one and the same as their allah?
God bless.

 

[inJESUS]

What exactly does this verse mean:

[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?’ " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.

it is usually understood that Allah will gather, on the day of judgment, the prophets and their nations. When it comes to Jesus, he will ask Him is that’s what He said and Jesus will deny it. Some commentators said that Allah will ask Christians if that’s what Jesus said and they’ll say yes so Jesus will rebuke them.

Whatever that means, neither Jesus uttered it nor do we teach it. And no it has nothing to do with intercession , after all Allah says He allows the intercession of whom he wills; the verse is rather about the deification of both, something the Quran repeats in other verses.

 

[Sam_777]

GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?’ "

Why Allah needs to ask that question in the first place, isn’t He suppose to know whether Jesus said it or not .

 

[hamba2han]

And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah’?” He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. … Al-Qur’an, 005.116

The Qur’an says that this is what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will say to his Lord on the Day of Judgment… and this of course means that he would not have said it yet during his time in this world.

How would Christians KNOW what Jesus (pbuh) will say on the Day of Judgment if they are not referring to their own scriptures??

 

[ralphinal]

And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah’?” He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. … Al-Qur’an, 005.116

The Qur’an says that this is what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will say to his Lord on the Day of Judgment… and this of course means that he would not have said it yet during his time in this world.

How would Christians KNOW what Jesus (pbuh) will say on the Day of Judgment if they are not referring to their own scriptures??

Our Scriptures have a different end times scenario than yours.

 

[Jay53]

And behold! Allah will say: “O Jesus the son of Mary! Didst thou say unto men, worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah’?” He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, Thou I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden. … Al-Qur’an, 005.116

The Qur’an says that this is what Prophet Jesus (pbuh) will say to his Lord on the Day of Judgment… and this of course means that he would not have said it yet during his time in this world.

How would Christians KNOW what Jesus (pbuh) will say on the Day of Judgment if they are not referring to their own scriptures??

I understood that point - that Allah will ask this on the Last Day. However, I do not know of any religion that worships Mary so why would Allah ask about something that does not exist, has never existed? And this would be something He (since He is omniscient) would already know. This accusation is strictly from humans who do not understand Christian reverence of Mary and thus, IMO, points out that this verse, at least, is from Muhammad and not God. In turn, I would think it makes the other verses suspect. (I would be more inclined to understand the verse if it had left out Mary. That’s the point that sticks out as being a human misunderstanding.)

 

[Jay53]

The Qur’an was given to Muhammed after the Trinity had been taught for hundreds of years and after it had been defined. Allah should have known what Christians said the Trinity was.

EXACTLY!!!

 

[Dempsey1919]

This proves that the Quran is the invention of a man, and not a true revelation from God Almighty. This verse states that Christians worship Mary as another deity beside God. This has never been the case. The Catholic Church has never instructed the faithful to worship Mary as a goddess; the Orthodox have never granted Mary the adoration reserved to God alone; and no protestant denomination has ever worshipped Mary as a deity. The worship of Mary as an idol, deity, or goddess has never been part of any Christian doctrine or creed. The only text which makes this claim is the Quran! **If the Islamic Allah is the true God he would know exactly what Christians believe, and he would know that Christians have never worshipped Mary.
**
If God wrote the Quran, it would be infallable and contain no errors. However, Quran 5:116 wrongly claims that Christians worship Mary; this verse is untrue and is a lie! The Quran is wrong about Christian doctrine; and this proves that the Quran is not divinely inspired.

As I have said, this major error proves that the Quran is false. Muhammad’s ignorance of Christianity has ruined his credibility as a true prophet. He claimed the Quran was infallable but his ignorance of Christian belief proves otherwise.

The Muslims who visit these forums know that Christians have never worshipped Mary. We have proved this to them many times. However, they refuse to believe us because the Quran states that we do. Obviously, the Quran knows more about what Christians believe than the Catholic Church! I hope all Muslims will see that Quran 5:116 is untrue, inaccurate, and totally false. Please investigate Christian doctrine and you will see that we have never worshipped Mary.

 

[hamba2han]

Christians often accuse Muslims of not even knowing what the Trinity is, pointing out that the Qur’an sets it up as Allah the Father, Jesus the Son, and Mary his mother. While veneration of Mary has been a figment of the Catholic Church since 431 when she was given the title “Mother of God” by the Council of Ephesus, a closer examination of the verse in the Qur’an (5:116) most often cited by Christians in support of their accusation, shows that the designation of Mary by the Qur’an as a “member” of the Trinity, is simply not true.

While the Qur’an does condemn both trinitarianism (the Qur’an 4:17) and the worship of Jesus and his mother Mary (the Qur’an 5:116), nowhere does it identify the actual three components of the Christian Trinity. The position of the Qur’an is that WHO or WHAT comprises this doctrine is not important; what is important is that the very notion of a Trinity is an affront against the concept of One God.

The following is an excerpt from a webpage:

a) The word “Trinity” appears in the Holy Qur’an in verses 4:171 and 5:73. In these two verses the name of Mary is not mentioned as “the third Person of the Holy Trinity”. Not withstanding that as an argument, here are the observed facts.

b) The carved or molten images and/or statues of Jesus Christ and his mother Mary, in various sizes and shapes, are to be found in the Catholic and Orthodox Churches, all around the world.

c) Most of these Sacred Statues or Images are placed in the prominent places of the Prayer Halls of these Christian Churches for the purpose of venerating and worshipping of these entities.

d) One would also notice that the majority of the attending congregates would kneel, worship, venerate and pray before these Holy Images as their reverent rituals and inherited traditions. Many devoted believers would place lighted candles in front of these Sacred Statues or Images before worshipping or paying their homage to them.

e) These Catholic and Orthodox congregates who venerate Lord Jesus as their God and Virgin Mary as the “Mother of God”, do form the bulk of the Christians community. It has been so since the inception of the Roman Catholic Church. The Protestants, who separated from the Roman Catholics, nearly ten centuries after the advent of Islam, do not have the Statues of Mother Mary in their Churches.

f) In 1998, according to the Encyclopedia Britannia there were 1040 million Catholics and only 361 million Protestants.

g) These observations clearly indicate that Virgin Mary has been venerated with hyperdulia, along with her son Jesus, by the majority of the Christians, from the early years of the Catholicism.

h) As for the Holy Ghost, the third person of the Holy Trinity, no Christian Church has so far instituted its venerating representation, image or semblance for their Churchgoers.

The Truth

  **The obvious conclusion is that for all practical purpose and in reality, when the issue is of Worshipping, Venerating, Deifying and/or Idolizing, it is Mary - the "Mother of God" and not the Holy Ghost has that kind of rank and status. Briefly, the historical figures of Jesus and Mary are venerated as Deities. The Holy Ghost is not venerated as a Deity.**

Al-Qur’an, 003.085
And whoever desires a religion other than Islam, it shall not be accepted from him, and in the hereafter he shall be one of the losers.

 

[trdchubi]

Can we say that the muslim faith is a religion that totally denies The authority of Jesus as the Son of God?

What other faith denies His Divinity?The Triune God in General?

How can you define a cult? Can we say that whoever denies Almighty God the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit is a cult.

The bible described this great pretending prophet like this:

I John 4:1-3 says, Dear friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world. 2This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, 3but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

False prophets can be some in to this:

1.They twist the scriptures.

2.Their prophesy lies from their imaginations. False prophets will make up lofty prophetic utterances. They will seem very spiritual, but oftentimes vague in content (Jeremiah 23:25-26). In addition, they prophesy their own desires.

1. They possess a controlling spirit. False ministers will use manipulation to gain followers. Once people begin to follow them, they scare the individuals into staying. They tell individuals that if they leave, God will not be pleased and the like. In addition, false ministers will try to control the people’s personal lives.

4.False prophets will say they have a revelation of God that no one else has.

1. One more thing A true prophet of God came from the line of Israel.

 

[hamba2han]

Our Scriptures have a different end times scenario than yours.

You are still not answering the question:

How would Christians KNOW what Jesus (pbuh) will say on the Day of Judgment if they are not referring to their own scriptures?

BTW, the Last Day is not the Day of Judgment, it is instead the Day when the world comes to an end.