Quran 5:116

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Do Muslims have the same definition of a prophet as the Jews and the Christians? (First and foremost, that he is one of God’s spokepeople to his fellow people.)
**First and foremost is correct as per Muslim belief. It is certain that the Muslim believed prophets are not the same as the christian believed prophets. The christians seem to have their own formula for the test of the prophets and they have less number of prophets compared to Muslims.

I am not fully aware about the Jewish belief about prophets. But I would hope that the list of their prophets is same as that with the Muslims except that they do not count Zakariya or John the Baptist and Jesus and Muhammad as a prophet.

It is also felt that the Jews believe in the prophets only for themsleves (that is prophets are only for the Jewish israeli people). The christians also seem to like that formula and follow it. The Jews and the christians believe that God did not send any prophet to any other nation.

But Muslims believe that Allah spoke to all nations and sent warners (prophets, messengers) in all nations, including the Israelis and Arabs and hindus and Japs and chineses and Persians,in fact in all nations.

If the Jews and christians just come to believe that one (last) point of Islam that Allah sent messengers to all nations of the world then the matter could become very easy amongst the three important religions (Judaism, christianity and Islam.). I hope I have not misguded any one.**
 
** The christians also seem to like that formula and follow it. The Jews and the christians believe that God did not send any prophet to any other nation.**
This is not correct. Christians believe that Jesus (as the Son of God and not just a prophet) was sent for and died for ALL sinners on earth - every nation, every time period - ALL sinners.
 
Muslims, much like the followers of many cults and man-made religions (such as the Bahai Faith), believe that every culture and people have been given prophets and messengers from God, and, according to Islam, these messengers or prophets practiced Islam, which basically means submission to the one true God, and they preached that there is only one God to their peoples and cultures. (The five pillars of Islam are said to be the marks of submission to God, which is ironic because God only revealed them to Mohammed, not to anyone else before Mohammed, so how someone could submit to God before him I have not a clue).

What else is ironic is that hardly any culture or people other than Christianity and Judaism believed in one God - in fact, this was the big distinguishment between God’s People and the gentiles. The gentiles considered Christians and Jews to be poor people because they only had one god, while they had so many gods and goddesses (ironically, these gods were more creature-like than divine, having human emotions and errors, and it is said that many were actually demons in disguise). This is why Judaism feared assilimiation during the Roman Empire, and that is why so many Jews hated the Empire and were waiting for a Messiah who would quite literally destroy the Romans, and thereby, restore the Kingdom of Israel. But I’m getting off topic.

Some Muslim scholars point to a paraoh in Egypt who believed in one god and say, “See, he believes in God! It is clear proof that there were many messengers sent by God before Mohammed, even though we do not know who they all were.” However, this would be historically false, because the world was steeped in polytheism. Some scholars even point to the rampant polytheism of the ancient world as proof of Islam before Mohammed, however this would be like saying the Catholic Church corrupted the Bible simply because not all the verses are in favor of someone’s own beliefs: it makes no sense, it shows dishonor toward history, and it shows a lack of understanding of culture and religion. Other scholars point to the creator-god of various religions and say this is proof for Islam, however how polytheism can fit into monotheism is quite beyond me.

Again, it was Christianity and Judaism who, from among many religons, believed in only one God. Muslims scholars could point to our prophets and apostles as proof that Islam was practiced and spread before Mohammed, however this would be false given the fact that neither our prophets nor apostles practiced the five pillars of Islam, nor did they acknowledge the God as portrayed by Mohammed and named Allah, nor did they preach only one God, but rather, the prophets preached repentence and a new covenant and the apostles preached Jesus Christ. (There is an instance in Acts where the apostles do preach one God, however, this was to win the gentles over to Christ; they had to start at first pointing out the oneness of God, using the gentles’ philsophy to do so (“I have become a gentle to convert gentiles…”), and then guide the gentiles to His Son, Jesus). I don’t know of any other religions other than Judaism or Christianity that proclaimed one God. Certainly there were branches and sects that came from Judaism and Christianity - like the Christians who turned to gnosticis or the Essence community - that proclaimed one God, but they weren’t gentiles. And I know that many Arabs believed in Allah before Mohammed, but they practiced polytheism, not monotheism.

Ironically, Mohammed coming suddenly on the scene in history and saying Allah was God is almost like the apostles who pointed to an altar to “an unknown god” and preaching that, what the gentles worshipped unknowingly, they had come to preach who He was: the one God, Creator of all things. This is ironic because Mohammed is basically - perhaps even unknowingly - copying Christianity. However, I don’t know if this actually true. Though it’s true he did copy from many religious text, I don’t know if he was sincere or insincere in his preaching. But it’s kind of like Medjugorje: Maybe the seers really did recieve an apparition at first, but than they turned bad and now are faking mysticism; maybe, too, Mohommed really did receive a message from God to convert, and he wanted to share it with others, but than he became corrupted. (Sorry about bringing Medjugorje into this). I really don’t know the man’s heart, though, so I try not to judge. And I think I went off-topic again. Sorry.
 
Every nation and people being sent a messenger or a prophet doesn’t mean every nation and people followed their messenger or adhered fully to the message.

If you study world religions from the perspective of Huston Smith (think that’s his name), you might be interested that he starts to point out that under every religion in the world, there is the underlying premise of the "ONE"ness of God. Sometimes you might have to dig deep to find it, and it might be covered with all kinds of worship that isn’t consistent with that ONEness (at least, as per Islam) but it’s still there.

Since that is the message of Islam–i.e., that God is one, and neither do Jews nor Christians dispute that much, I think it’s really interesting to see it manifest in all or certainly most world religions, even if it was corrupted over time.
 
What exactly does this verse mean:
[5:116] GOD will say, "O Jesus, son of Mary, did you say to the people, `Make me and my mother idols beside GOD?’ " He will say, "Be You glorified. I could not utter what was not right. Had I said it, You already would have known it. You know my thoughts, and I do not know Your thoughts. You know all the secrets.
It is very simple: This is a conversation that is yet to take place. It will be spoken on the Day of Judgement.

God will question Prophet and Massiah, Jesus, son of Mary (pbuh) about those people who worship him instead of God.

Those who pray to Mary, mother of Jesus (pbuh) are comitting a grave sin in the eyes of God, it is idol worshiping and setting up partners along side Almighty God.
 
Ughh…this AGAIN? It is NOT “idol worship”!

“Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray FOR us sinners now, and at the hour of our deaths.”

This is “idol worship”? How? It is asking that she pray FOR us, because we believe that she is in Heaven with the Lord, and that as the Mother of God, her intercession on our behalf will be heard by the Lord. Again, how is this “idol worship”? We do not say she IS God. We do not think she is God. You are mistaken.

By the way, is it not written that people will ask Muhammad for his intercession before Allah on the last day? See the highlighted portion of this page. It would seem that those who believe in Muhammad’s intercession believe in it for similar reasons as Catholics believe in the intercession of Mary: Because he is in a special position to intercede on their behalf, as a chosen one of God.

Physician, heal thyself!
 
Sorry forgot something.

There were people on this thread who said that they didn’t worship Mary.

In Islam anything that is set up and promoted to be a partner alongside God is idolatry. Catholics call Mary Mother of God when God has no mother, father, brother, sister, son or daughter, He is unique, has no partners and there is nothing that can be compared to Him.

the Collyridians used to worship Mary, as well as other obscure early Christian sects. Her worship may not be in the same manor now within Catholicism, but people do bow to her and i have even see people prostrate to her statue. How isn’t that worship?

All of these practices seem to be introduced later, the Bible clearly states that no images should be carved, let alone having carvings and statues of people.

Islam came to correct devient practices and as Islam is the complete religion, it is very strict in these areas and it doesn’t suffer from all the man made doctrines and practices that are within Catholicism.
 
Please do

Remember this when you give your answer

“You shall not make for yourself a carved image, … you shall not bow down to them nor serve them.”(Exodus 20:4-6)
 
Every nation and people being sent a messenger or a prophet doesn’t mean every nation and people followed their messenger or adhered fully to the message.

If you study world religions from the perspective of Huston Smith (think that’s his name), you might be interested that he starts to point out that under every religion in the world, there is the underlying premise of the "ONE"ness of God. Sometimes you might have to dig deep to find it, and it might be covered with all kinds of worship that isn’t consistent with that ONEness (at least, as per Islam) but it’s still there.

Since that is the message of Islam–i.e., that God is one, and neither do Jews nor Christians dispute that much, I think it’s really interesting to see it manifest in all or certainly most world religions, even if it was corrupted over time.
Why would I want to read history from one man’s perspective? One man is not absolutely right! I read history from the persepective of a number of scholars. I actaully study history.

To the Christian posters: Don’t expect many Muslim users to understand the Bible, but do expect them to misinterpret and cherry pick verses. This is how they “justify” their religious beliefs. But what would you expect? They’ve stolen Jesus and blasmphezied against Him.

I’m going to take a break from the forum, play some games. The sheer stupidity of some users on this forum is outrageous!
 
Sorry forgot something.

There were people on this thread who said that they didn’t worship Mary.

In Islam anything that is set up and promoted to be a partner alongside God is idolatry. Catholics call Mary Mother of God when God has no mother, father, brother, sister, son or daughter, He is unique, has no partners and there is nothing that can be compared to Him.

the Collyridians used to worship Mary, as well as other obscure early Christian sects. Her worship may not be in the same manor now within Catholicism, but people do bow to her and i have even see people prostrate to her statue. How isn’t that worship?

All of these practices seem to be introduced later, the Bible clearly states that no images should be carved, let alone having carvings and statues of people.

Islam came to correct devient practices and as Islam is the complete religion, it is very strict in these areas and it doesn’t suffer from all the man made doctrines and practices that are within Catholicism.
It’s easy to confuse things and personally I think Muslims are guilty of oversimplifying this idea of idolatry. Read Numbers 21:1-9. Under strict interpretation that is Idoltry.

There are many other examples, Solomans temple was adorned with graven images.

I’ve never seen anyone prostrate to a statue of Mary, those people must be confused. Let’s not forget Our Lady of Fatima, many Muslims visit her shrine and many witnessed her miracle. God knows our hearts and knows the difference between worshiping someone or seeking for their prayers. We venerate Mary giving her rightful respect which is just, we don’t worship her we don’t have to prove it or hide it for God knows our inner thoughts.
 
Does Allah understand intentions or is he limited to what he sees? from Muslims’ responses, it seems Allah’s perception is limited to the appearance of things.

So if a Christian bows down/kisses a picture/statue of Mary, to Allah it is worshippin her even if the intention is clear, yet Allah asks angels to bow down to a mere human and Sister Amy tells us “don’t ask why”. Maybe Allah thinks that sportsmen who bown down before their fans are worshipping them, after all that’s how much he understands.

This is what meaningless legalism leads to when the heart means absolutely nothing.

If we want to start using narrow-minded arguments, then muslims are the worst associators of God since they cannot utter the word Allah without mentioning Muhammad. Muhammad was the worst mushrik when he claimed Allah swore by him and that Allah asked angels to bow down to humans. Piece of cake, but it seems we can see beyond things while Muslims seem to suggest that the creator’s perception is limited.
 
Islam came to correct devient [sic] practices and as Islam is the complete religion, it is very strict in these areas and it doesn’t suffer from all the man made doctrines and practices that are within Catholicism.
Muslims claim that Mohammad was sent to correct the alleged “corruption” and “deviations”. So the correction for “Love God and your neighbor as yourself” is “Kill the infidels wherever you find them” ?
 
Muslims claim that Mohammad was sent to correct the alleged “corruption” and “deviations”. So the correction for “Love God and your neighbor as yourself” is “Kill the infidels wherever you find them” ?
no rather it is “obey Allah and fight those who do not believe in Allah or Muhammad” 😛
what you quoted was specific if i recall well but fighting for Allah is eternal.
 
no rather it is “obey Allah and fight those who do not believe in Allah or Muhammad” 😛
what you quoted was specific if i recall well but fighting for Allah is eternal.
So what if it is “specific”? What does “specific” mean to you? Why does Allah need his followers to fight for him?
 
Am amused when Muslims claim Muhammad came to correct and clear doubts. When it comes to Jesus who is a major problem between Jesus’ followers and Muhammad’s, muslims claim He was not crucified, but they don’t know what “appeared as such” means; when it comes to His birth, it is considered a “miracle” in Islam, yet a miracle neither seen nor proved nor serves any purpose for humanity; and when it comes to His return, He will return to lead humans to Islam, why Jesus and not Muhammad? because Jesus did not die and must come back to die, why didn’t He die? because “it appeared as such” yet no one knows what it means. But still Muhammad came to “clear doubts”, methink we need another prophet to clear Muslims’ doubts…but heck, Muslims “hear and obey”, beyond that “it is not essential”.
 
So what if it is “specific”? What does “specific” mean to you? Why does Allah need his followers to fight for him?
Specific historically. That is, “fight them wherever you find them” was specific for certain people (pagans of Quraish i guess) at a certain time and Muslims consider it defensive. Jihad, however, is eternal and could as well be offensive to spread Islam, just as the peaceful Caliphs did when they butchered people for the sake of Allah. Why? well they simply obey what Muhammad wanted, after all, Gabriel gave him this teaching from Allah and if no religion will be accepted by Allah except Islam, and the land is for Allah and his messenger, then they obey. And no, Jesus’ teachings mean nothing to them, after all, they believe in a virtual Jesus and a virtual Bible that got corrupted beyond recognition so surely Jesus taught Jihad but corrupt Christians/disciples decided otherwise, that is why none of them engaged in wars…but Muslims aren’t fond of history .
 
You know, this always leads me to wonder what is meant by “All-knowing” to Muslims.
 
You know, this always leads me to wonder what is meant by “All-knowing” to Muslims.
from what i see through their responses, maybe he isn’t all-knowing after all because an all-knowing will not call honoring a man/woman of God as “worship”. As simple as this, but Muslims cannot even entertain the idea that Muhammad was wrong or that the Quran reflects limited human perspectives that is why they insist on repeating the same Quranic limitations hence proving again and again that these limitations cannot reflect an all-knowing God but they cannot see it, we can see it better since we are not obliged to believe the Quran is from an all knowing God and the book condemns itself compared to Christian theology known before Muhammad was born.
 
And it was made with cherubims and palm trees, so that a palm tree was between a cherub and a cherub; and every cherub had two faces
You are basing the permissability of the creation of carved images and the abrigation of the commandment on this?

My goodness…

So, what was the commandment for then? why did God command it? God doesn’t command for the sake of it nor does He waste his breath, it has to mean something.

This is how idolatry begins, and God knows this all too well. Its like opening the door to satan…

This abrigation is NOT a commandment rather the opposite isthe commandment and as we know, Jesus came to fulfill the law and no part of it was to change

:rolleyes:
 
^ I find your point worrying (convincing)

It looks to me like there is a lot of hate here 😦 Muslims don’t want to kill non-Muslims
 
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