Quran must verify what we (Jews and Christians) have

[sedonaman]

** You have still not explained why Jesus called all those who came before him as robbers. You have failed to understand the bible or you do not want to explain??
**

I told you that we are wise to your tactic and will not answer because:

• You are the one who brought up Jesus;
• It is unrelated to the topic, i.e., what the Qur’an must verify.

** He does not affirm earlier prophets because he needs something… Muhammad is “Khaatam an Nabiyyeen”, i.e. the super seal of the prophets. All prophets were granted prophethood through him. Muhammad carries the seal of the prophets and the prophethood of all prophets is authenticated by his seal.
**

…

Let’s apply the same logic to some other scenarios:

• David Koresh said he was the Messiah. David Koresh said it, so it must be true.
• Charles Manson said he was God. Charles Manson said it, so it must be true.
• The man on infomercial TV said I needed a new steak knife set. The man on the TV said it, so it must be true.

Mohammed said he is “‘Khaatam an Nabiyyeen’, i.e. the super seal of the prophets” so it must be true.

**If Muhammad had not authenticated the prophethood of Jesus and John the baptist then nobody would have known them. Muhammad has proved the prophethood of all prophets.
**

What authority did Mohamed have for authenticating prior prophets? I know. Mohammed said it, so it must be true.
Why would Mohammed need to authenticate prophets from Christianity if he also claimed that Christianity is wrong?

**When a man (Jesus) is walking about, you believe that he was God (even though he never himself said so.) But you believe that he is God. What proof was there? Nothing. But you believe taht he was God.
**

This is rich. You claim there is no proof that Jesus was God, but offer no proof that Mohammed was a prophet. What proof is there? Nothing, other than Mohammed said it; Mohammed said it, so it must be true.

• David Koresh said he was the Messiah. David Koresh said it so it must be true.
• Charles Manson said he was God. Charles Manson said it so it must be true.
• The man on infomercial TV said I needed a new steak knife set. The man on the TV said it so it must be true.

**When Muhammad comes and recieves messages from God and he says that he is a messenger of God, you do not believe that. You need some proof for that. You want to see some proof of his prophethood, even though there have been thousands of prophets before him. What proof did they have of their prophethood?? Same was the proof for Muhammad.
Muhammad claiming to be a mere man and a prophet, you do not believe. You need some signal or plate or something. What did Jesus have with him?
**

How many times must I tell you I’m not falling for your tactic of changing subjects. If we assume for a moment that the Bible [OT and NT] and all its “prophets” never existed, what is Mohammad’s proof the he was a prophet of God? Answer: He said it, so it must be true.

Is it against Islam for a Muslim to use the phone? Why or why not? Mohammed never said it is OK to use a telephone.

 

[Sister_Amy]

which one is the exact representation of the eternal tablet in heaven? which one is what Allah exactly uttered? which one is the “unchanged Quran, not even in one dot”?

 

[inJESUS]

inJESUS;5076545:

They were both revealed by Allah.

For your reading pleasure: islamic-awareness.org/Quran/Text/Qiraat/hafs.html#5

so there isn’t one standard Quran or one reading of the Quran or one Quran preserved on the eternal tablet (Indeed, it is a glorious Quran. In a preserved master tablet) , but there are different standards with different readings,each with different grammatical indicators(i`raab), consonants, nouns as to whether they are singular, dual, plural, masculine or feminine, with differences in which there is a substitution of one word for another, differences due to reversal of word order in expressions where the reversal is meaningful in the Arabic language in general or in the structure of the expression in particular, differences due to some small addition or deletion in accordance with the custom of the Arabs and differences due to dialectical peculiarities, as an Islamic scholar puts them.

Add to them different reports about lost ayas, lost surah, abrogation and forgetfulness and deletion, different suras with differing length, different readings between the readers and Uthman’s burning Allah’s words and beating up one of Muhammad’s scribes…

So when you (or Muslim Woman) later repeat the words of your scholars that “The astonishing fact about this book of Allah is that it has remained unchanged, even to a dot”, do not be surprised if we consider it as a joke, and you must know why by now.

 

[sedonaman]

Sister Amy;5085077:

… but there are different standards with different readings,each with different grammatical indicators(i`raab), consonants, nouns as to whether they are singular, dual, plural, masculine or feminine, with differences in which there is a substitution of one word for another, differences due to reversal of word order in expressions where the reversal is meaningful in the Arabic language in general or in the structure of the expression in particular, differences due to some small addition or deletion in accordance with the custom of the Arabs and differences due to dialectical peculiarities, as an Islamic scholar puts them…

You forgot to mention the biggie: differences due to changes in the language down through time.

So when you (or Muslim Woman) later repeat the words of your scholars that “The astonishing fact about this book of Allah is that it has remained unchanged, even to a dot”, do not be surprised if we consider it as a joke, …

Or a thinly veiled attempt to be esoteric.

 

[inJESUS]

Sedonaman, we must not forget to add that the Quran claims to be in clear Arabic yet more than 270 words are from other languages like Coptic, Syriac, Ethiopian and Hebrew but since the Quran claims to be in clear Arabic, and since it claims to be preserved on a tablet in heaven, some like Al-Achaari resorted to claiming that not one word in the Quran is from another language but people like Suyuti not only said there are hundreds of non-Arabic words, but even enumerated them which shows that some tend to ignore history because the Quran says so. The problem in all this is that according to Islamic literature, Muhammad’s sahaba themselves had problems understanding many of the Quranic words, even Ibn Abbas, let alone ordinary “uneducated” people, so it wasn’t all “that” clear after all and which begs the question : didn’t Allah find words in Arabic to reveal them?

PS Muhammad according to Islamic literature knew other languages, or at least words from other languages and 2 examples come to mind : the first when Muhammad saw a small girl in front of him and uttered “beautiful” in a non-Arabic tongue, and when he uttered Ta Ha which is a hebrew expression meaning “put your foot on the ground”. We can understand a human being using non-Arabic words while speaking, but it becomes different when the all-knowing uses non-Arabic words and then claims his language is clear Arabic.