R.C women marrying a CofE man and wants a full Nuptial mass?

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angelaliverpool

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Hello there.

Can anyone please give me the churches ruleing for mixed marriages?

I have a friend who is in a mixed marrage she being the devote Catholic, her spouse for 25 years is C of E non-practicing. They have 4 children all brought up as practricing Catholics. Her eldest daughter has been with er partner from the age of 16 and is now 26 years of age and wishes to get married in a Catholic church with all the sacrements that Catholicism offers, as her mum and Dad before her did.

The young lady in question is proposing to marry a non-catholic man and has only ever had the one partner and has been a regular practicing Catholic all of her life. Her future spouse has come to all the marriage prperation classes in support of his future wifes beliefs in Catholicism, and now that it is near the wedding date, September 2012, they have come to a stage that the priest has refused to do a nuptial mass at the ceremony of marriage.

Is this a ruling of the church? I can not find anything in the archives of the Bishops conference England and Wales, nor on the website of the Vatican?

Her Mother is distraught as she had recieved a papal blessing and the Blessed Sacrements at her marriage to the a Cof E man.

If we are to move forward with are ecumenical ways, we need to continue to show we are fully inclusive and not appearing to be discriminating towards other faiths. We must continue to open our doors to the wider Ecumenical community and allow them to still recieve a blessing, until then we continue to pray for us all, that one day we all become in full union with Christ our Lord.

Thank you and God bless. x
 
Usually when a Catholic marries a non-catholic Christian it is preferable not to have the rite of marriage as part of a Mass because the non-Catholic Christian is not allowed to receive the Holy Eucharist and so it would be symbol of separation exactly at the same time when the two people are choosing to become united and one flesh.

This usual decision is made out or respect for the non-Catholic Christians and not out of discrimination and lack of ecumenism. The pastor of the parish is the authority that can make the call.
 
From what you have posted, I don’t know why they would be denied a nuptial Mass. I would suggest, during the marriage prep classes, they ask the priest.

I do know that, if it appears that the majority of the people who will be attending the wedding are non-Catholic, the priest will often encourage the couple to have a wedding ceremony without a Mass to avoid confusion since the non-Catholics, including the spouse, will be unable to receive Communion. This is as sacramental as a wedding ceremony with a Mass.
 
angelaliverpool said:
Is this a ruling of the church?
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From a prior post, posted by Cameron_Lansing, a deacon and canon lawyer who used to post here:

On the basis of canon 2* we must consult the introduction to the Rite of Marriage, n. 8 as the appropriate liturgical law. It indicates that the regulations for the rite of marriage outside Mass are to observed in the marriage of a Catholic to another baptized person.

However, the Rite continues by saying that, if suitable, the local ordinary may give permission for the marriage of a Catholic and another baptized person to be celebrated within Mass, and that, according to general law, communion is not given to the non Catholic.

The Rite of Marraige, n. 8 states:
  1. In a marriage between a Catholic and a baptized person who is not Catholic, the regulations which appear below in the rite of marriage outside Mass (nos. 39-54) shall be observed. If suitable, and if the Ordinary of the place gives permission, the rite for celebrating marriage within Mass (nos. 19-38) may be used, except that, according to the general law, communion is not given to the non-Catholic. In a marriage between a Catholic and one who is not baptized, the rite which appears in nos. 55-66 is to be followed.
Based on the above, the Rite instructs that in a mixed marriage, the Rite must be outside the Mass unless the priest obtains permission from the bishop to have a Nuptial Mass.
angelaliverpool said:
Her Mother is distraught as she had recieved a papal blessing and the Blessed Sacrements at her marriage to the a Cof E man.
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We cannot make a comparison. Perhaps the bishop at the time her mother married gave such permission and the current bishop does not. It is not an entitlement.

If both parties are baptized, the marriage is valid and a sacrament.
angelaliverpool said:
If we are to move forward with are ecumenical ways, we need to continue to show we are fully inclusive and not appearing to be discriminating towards other faiths. We must continue to open our doors to the wider Ecumenical community and allow them to still recieve a blessing, until then we continue to pray for us all, that one day we all become in full union with Christ our Lord.

Thank you and God bless. x
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It sounds like the mother is the one with the issue, not the two who plan to be married. My advice-- Mother needs to butt out.
 
1ke said:
Actually, no, the pastor does not have the authority to “make the call”. The bishop does.
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I stand corrected. However, I thought that the pastor could decide not to celebrate the mass.
 
angelaliverpool said:
Hello there.

Can anyone please give me the churches ruleing for mixed marriages?

I have a friend who is in a mixed marrage she being the devote Catholic, her spouse for 25 years is C of E non-practicing. They have 4 children all brought up as practricing Catholics. Her eldest daughter has been with er partner from the age of 16 and is now 26 years of age and wishes to get married in a Catholic church with all the sacrements that Catholicism offers, as her mum and Dad before her did.

The young lady in question is proposing to marry a non-catholic man and has only ever had the one partner and has been a regular practicing Catholic all of her life. Her future spouse has come to all the marriage prperation classes in support of his future wifes beliefs in Catholicism, and now that it is near the wedding date, September 2012, they have come to a stage that the priest has refused to do a nuptial mass at the ceremony of marriage.

Is this a ruling of the church? I can not find anything in the archives of the Bishops conference England and Wales, nor on the website of the Vatican?

Her Mother is distraught as she had recieved a papal blessing and the Blessed Sacrements at her marriage to the a Cof E man.

If we are to move forward with are ecumenical ways, we need to continue to show we are fully inclusive and not appearing to be discriminating towards other faiths. We must continue to open our doors to the wider Ecumenical community and allow them to still recieve a blessing, until then we continue to pray for us all, that one day we all become in full union with Christ our Lord.

Thank you and God bless. x
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You didn’t mention if the groom is practicing another faith and if he’s baptized, that may be the reason behind the priest’s decision. Most priests will discourage a nuptial mass if one of the intended is a practicing non-Catholic. If the groom isn’t validly baptized, there can be no nuptial mass.
 
PatriceA said:
You didn’t mention if the groom is practicing another faith and if he’s baptized, that may be the reason behind the priest’s decision. Most priests will discourage a nuptial mass if one of the intended is a practicing non-Catholic. If the groom isn’t validly baptized, there can be no nuptial mass.
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The title of this thread tells us. I know we shouldn’t assume but generally someone who identifies him/herself as belonging to the “Church of England” is baptized.
 
Phemie said:
The title of this thread tells us. I know we shouldn’t assume but generally someone who identifies him/herself as belonging to the “Church of England” is baptized.
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OOPS, I thought just the father was CofE.
 
Cristiano said:
I stand corrected. However, I thought that the pastor could decide not to celebrate the mass.
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I believe the pastor would first need to determine that there was a good reason to have the Mass instead of the Rite outside of Mass and then he would seek the permission of the Bishop.
 
angelaliverpool said:
Her Mother is distraught as she had recieved a papal blessing and the Blessed Sacrements at her marriage to the a Cof E man.
Click to expand...
Others have addressed the rules. I just want to point out that the Sacrament is exactly the same whether the wedding is a Nuptial Mass or not. And the Papal blessing is not received at the wedding Mass. It is a separate process.
If we are to move forward with are ecumenical ways, we need to continue to show we are fully inclusive and not appearing to be discriminating towards other faiths. We must continue to open our doors to the wider Ecumenical community and allow them to still recieve a blessing, until then we continue to pray for us all, that one day we all become in full union with Christ our Lord.
Click to expand...
It is not our place as laity to determine how to engage in ecumenical dialogue. That’s done at much higher levels than you or me. In the case you describe, the priest might also be concerned about confusion on the part of a large number of attendees. For example, if there is a large percentage of those who will be attending this wedding who are CofE, there could be a sticky situation when it comes time to distribute Communion. Many CofE members believe that Communion is for all or at least all Christians, even at a Catholic Mass. He may just be making a decision that seems most prudent given the circumstances.
 
Corki said:
Others have addressed the rules. I just want to point out that the Sacrament is exactly the same whether the wedding is a Nuptial Mass or not. And the Papal blessing is not received at the wedding Mass. It is a separate process.
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Perhaps the OP meant Nuptial Blessing. For a papal blessing, both parties must be Catholic.

The Nuptial Blessing can be conferred in the Rite outside the Mass.
 
She and her fiance should ask the priest to explain it.
angelaliverpool said:
Hello there.

Can anyone please give me the churches ruleing for mixed marriages?

I have a friend who is in a mixed marrage she being the devote Catholic, her spouse for 25 years is C of E non-practicing. They have 4 children all brought up as practricing Catholics. Her eldest daughter has been with er partner from the age of 16 and is now 26 years of age and wishes to get married in a Catholic church with all the sacrements that Catholicism offers, as her mum and Dad before her did.

The young lady in question is proposing to marry a non-catholic man and has only ever had the one partner and has been a regular practicing Catholic all of her life. Her future spouse has come to all the marriage prperation classes in support of his future wifes beliefs in Catholicism, and now that it is near the wedding date, September 2012, they have come to a stage that the priest has refused to do a nuptial mass at the ceremony of marriage.

Is this a ruling of the church? I can not find anything in the archives of the Bishops conference England and Wales, nor on the website of the Vatican?

Her Mother is distraught as she had recieved a papal blessing and the Blessed Sacrements at her marriage to the a Cof E man.

If we are to move forward with are ecumenical ways, we need to continue to show we are fully inclusive and not appearing to be discriminating towards other faiths. We must continue to open our doors to the wider Ecumenical community and allow them to still recieve a blessing, until then we continue to pray for us all, that one day we all become in full union with Christ our Lord.

Thank you and God bless. x
Click to expand...
 
angelaliverpool said:
If we are to move forward with are ecumenical ways, we need to continue to show we are fully inclusive and not appearing to be discriminating towards other faiths. We must continue to open our doors to the wider Ecumenical community and allow them to still recieve a blessing, until then we continue to pray for us all, that one day we all become in full union with Christ our Lord.
Click to expand...
Did you come in here to ask a question or make a statement?
 
Cristiano said:
Usually when a Catholic marries a non-catholic Christian it is preferable not to have the rite of marriage as part of a Mass because the non-Catholic Christian is not allowed to receive the Holy Eucharist and so it would be symbol of separation exactly at the same time when the two people are choosing to become united and one flesh.

This usual decision is made out or respect for the non-Catholic Christians and not out of discrimination and lack of ecumenism. The pastor of the parish is the authority that can make the call.
Click to expand...
Thank you Cristiano, I did not think it was discrimination, I was making a point of how sometimes our Catholicism can be presumed as just that. What it seems, is for some reason our parish priest has made the decision to not allow them to have a nuptial mass! And I was merely looking for the right answer to get back to him to ask for his reasons, if it was not canon law? I

Somemix marrages may prefer not to recieve the acrements, It is just not in this case, she is so desperate to have and her prospective hubby is fine with excepting a blessing as we would do at a funeral or any other occasion where othe demonitiins may be present. But hey thank you again for your kind comments. x:thumbsup:
 
Angel_Bradford said:
From what you have posted, I don’t know why they would be denied a nuptial Mass. I would suggest, during the marriage prep classes, they ask the priest.

I do know that, if it appears that the majority of the people who will be attending the wedding are non-Catholic, the priest will often encourage the couple to have a wedding ceremony without a Mass to avoid confusion since the non-Catholics, including the spouse, will be unable to receive Communion. This is as sacramental as a wedding ceremony with a Mass.
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Hey Angel, Thank you for your kind comment. The happy couple, have asked the priest this and he has saddly refused The majority attending will be devote and actively involved parishinors. I just need to accomplish if this is law or not. And if we can presued him to change his mind then that is good. But Hey it was very kind of you to reply. x:thumbsup:
 
angelaliverpool said:
Thank you Cristiano, I did not think it was discrimination, I was making a point of how sometimes our Catholicism can be presumed as just that. What it seems, is for some reason our parish priest has made the decision to not allow them to have a nuptial mass! And I was merely looking for the right answer to get back to him to ask for his reasons, if it was not canon law? I

Somemix marrages may prefer not to recieve the acrements, It is just not in this case, she is so desperate to have and her prospective hubby is fine with excepting a blessing as we would do at a funeral or any other occasion where othe demonitiins may be present. But hey thank you again for your kind comments. x:thumbsup:
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But they ARE receiving the sacrament, the sacrament of Holy Matrimony.

Someone who is marrying is not thereby automatically entitled, nor should they always be offered, the sacrament of the Eucharist (which is an entirely separate issue from the sacrament of marriage).

For example if a person is in mortal sin and unable to confess prior to marriage, they would need to abstain from the Eucharist.

The Eucharist - or Mass - which may accompany a marriage is not qualitatively different from any other Mass as said at any other time. Nor does the celebration of a mass along with the rite of marriage make the couple one iota more or less sacramentally married.

She is free to, if time permits, attend Mass earlier in the day and receive the Eucharist there if she is desirous. It may be a better option - I’ve been told that for many married couples the whole ceremony tends to be a bit if a blur.
 
angelaliverpool said:
Hey Angel, Thank you for your kind comment. The happy couple, have asked the priest this and he has saddly refused The majority attending will be devote and actively involved parishinors. I just need to accomplish if this is law or not. And if we can presued him to change his mind then that is good. But Hey it was very kind of you to reply. x:thumbsup:
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I suggest you reverse your approach. Rather than trying to convince him based on the law or rules, why don’t you ask what **his reasons **are for wanting the Rite outside of Mass rather than the Nuptial Mass? If you know his reasons, you can possibly convince him that he is mistaken.

If you try to go the “legal” route, you don’t really have grounds since, at the end of the day, it’s entirely up to the pastor which type of wedding ceremony he performs.
 
Phemie said:
The title of this thread tells us. I know we shouldn’t assume but generally someone who identifies him/herself as belonging to the “Church of England” is baptized.
Click to expand...
Thank yoouuuu! X
 
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