Rabbi says Pope’s homilies could threaten Catholic-Jewish relations (Catholic World News)

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Fiasco said:
And “barking up the wrong tree”?

i lost interest in following the Pope’s statements, but had the impression that his references to “pharisees” were aimed at some Catholics who, he said, are “too rigid”.🤷
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Dear Fiasco,

Absolutely.

I, too, was under the impression that Pope Francis was rebuking what he perceived was an undesirable quality or attitude among Catholics, not referring to the historical Pharisees who figure so prominently in the Gospel.

I suppose we live in an age where taking offense and being offended are very easy to do. :o
 
cthulhubryan said:
If you have to lean that far out to protest, you risk falling off the ship.
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Adrift!
RomanoAmerio said:
I, too, was under the impression that Pope Francis was rebuking…
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Romano:
Sometimes, i start to doubt my memory, so thanks for confirming that it’s still OK! Or else, we’re both mad!
I suppose we live in an age where taking offense and being offended are very easy to do. :o
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i understood that sort of thing was taught as a compulsory subject in US colleges and universities, but perhaps the North American College in Rome has it, as well, 🤷
 
RomanoAmerio said:
catholicculture.org/news/headlines/index.cfm?storyid=30994

Methinks the good Rabbi doth protest too much. 🙂
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I believe the rabbi is wrong on two counts. One involves his misgivings about the conference on the heresy of Marcionism, which states that since the G-d of the OT is fierce and jealous, that G-d should be rejected by the Church, which believes in a merciful, forgiving G-d. In point of fact. the G-d of the Hebrew Bible is not all that stern. The term “jealous” means in Hebrew zealous and passionate. G-d is passionate about His love for His people and for all humanity, and is NOT jealous according to the meaning of the word in English. If Marcionism is discussed and critiqued at the conference in this light, I think that is a good thing.

The second problem with the rabbi’s statement concerns Pope Francis. Whatever the Pope’s reference to Pharisees of ancient times might be, one would be hard put to find a pope of the modern age more bent on enabling good Catholic-Jewish relations than the present one. The rabbi should recognize this, and that Pope Francis is a champion of good will toward Jews and indeed toward all peoples. Rather than criticizing him, he should be praising his efforts in that regard.
 
meltzerboy said:
I believe the rabbi is wrong on two counts. One involves his misgivings about the conference on the heresy of Marcionism, which states that since the G-d of the OT is fierce and jealous, that G-d should be rejected by the Church, which believes in a merciful, forgiving G-d. In point of fact. the G-d of the Hebrew Bible is not all that stern. The term “jealous” means in Hebrew zealous and passionate. G-d is passionate about His love for His people and for all humanity, and is NOT jealous according to the meaning of the word in English. If Marcionism is discussed and critiqued at the conference in this light, I think that is a good thing.

The second problem with the rabbi’s statement concerns Pope Francis. Whatever the Pope’s reference to Pharisees of ancient times might be, one would be hard put to find a pope of the modern age more bent on enabling good Catholic-Jewish relations than the present one. The rabbi should recognize this, and that Pope Francis is a champion of good will toward Jews and indeed toward all peoples. Rather than criticizing him, he should be praising his efforts in that regard.
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Dear Meltzerboy,

You are correct. 🙂

In fact, I believe Pope Francis had many positive words to say to a delegation of the Anti-Defamation League who were granted an audience with him.

Moreover, Marcionism is itself condemned by the Church as a heresy, and Pope Francis has a great deal of respect for the Old Testament.
 
I go by my own experience and the Pope is on point with my experiences. Every experience of God I’ve had was loving, merciful, patient, and peaceful. I have never had the experience of an angry, violent, jealous God. That concept seems to be the product of man.
 
Pulvis said:
Another view on this.
catholicworldreport.com/Item/5495/papal_antijudaism.aspx

Very interesting take.
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VERY interesting take. Many thanks!
A short/concise course in a number of subjects.

The second last paragraph is an article in its own right. Michael Voris (Church Militant) has been viciously attacked for his supposed anti-Semitism because he rejects the idea that the Jews still receive salvation via the Old Covenant. A few weeks ago on these forums, a thread about him erupted into warfare, and this separate covenant issue was one of the causes.

Most people don’t know the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism, especially when it suits some of them.
 
Fiasco said:
VERY interesting take. Many thanks!
A short/concise course in a number of subjects.

The second last paragraph is an article in its own right. Michael Voris (Church Militant) has been viciously attacked for his supposed anti-Semitism because he rejects the idea that the Jews still receive salvation via the Old Covenant. A few weeks ago on these forums, a thread about him erupted into warfare, and this separate covenant issue was one of the causes.

Most people don’t know the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism, especially when it suits some of them.
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I know there is a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism although even here the lines are sometimes blurred. But what is the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism?

Also, Jews themselves do not believe the Old Covenant per se offers salvation. The Torah is called a tree of life (for those who cling to it), but only in the sense that it offers a blueprint concerning proper moral behavior toward others and devotion toward G-d. That is what is meant by salvation in Judaism, rather than everlasting life.
 
meltzerboy said:
I know there is a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism although even here the lines are sometimes blurred. But what is the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism?
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You caught me out badly on that one! 😊
i got “anti-Judaism” mixed up with the teaching that the Jews are not still saved by the “Old Covenant”.
Also, Jews themselves do not believe the Old Covenant per se offers salvation. The Torah is called a tree of life (for those who cling to it), but only in the sense that it offers a blueprint concerning proper moral behavior toward others and devotion toward G-d. That is what is meant by salvation in Judaism, rather than everlasting life.
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meltzerboy said:
I know there is a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism although even here the lines are sometimes blurred. But what is the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism?
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You caught me out badly on that one! 😊
Got “anti-Judaism” mixed up with the teaching that the Jews are not saved under the Old Covenant.
Also, Jews themselves do not believe the Old Covenant per se offers salvation. The Torah is called a tree of life (for those who cling to it), but only in the sense that it offers a blueprint concerning proper moral behavior toward others and devotion toward G-d. That is what is meant by salvation in Judaism, rather than everlasting life.
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Might be a good thing that mess-up happened earlier:
What does “rather than everlasting life” mean? Not like the Saducees’ belief…or is it?

This skull’s getting thicker, and it’s not s joke.😦

As a postscript:
Can you recommend some trustworthy online material which gives a good rundown on Jewish teachings, and especially Rabbinic Traditions?
Thanks in advance.
 
meltzerboy said:
I know there is a difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Zionism although even here the lines are sometimes blurred. But what is the difference between anti-Semitism and anti-Judaism?
.
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Definitions from encyclopedia britannica online, my bolding:

Semite, person speaking one of a group of related languages, presumably derived from a common language, Semitic (see Semitic languages). The term came to include Arabs, Akkadians, Canaanites, some Ethiopians, and Aramaean tribes including Hebrews. Mesopotamia, the western coast of the Mediterranean, the Arabian Peninsula, and the Horn of Africa have all been proposed as possible sites for the prehistoric origins of Semitic-speaking peoples, but no location has been definitively established.
Judaism, the religion of the Jews. It is the complex phenomenon of a total way of life for the Jewish people, comprising theology, law, and innumerable cultural traditions.

Based upon these definitions, one might be an anti-semite without being anti-Judaism, or one might be anti-Judaism without being anti-Semitic.
 
To put this into contemporary terms . . .

This rabbi is quite christophobic, and his attempt to associate references to first century pharasitic thought with Judaism in general is an act of cultural appropriation.

AMDG

hawk
 
Modern Jews seem to more often resemble the Sadducees (i.e. liberals and ‘free-thinkers’).
 
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