M
MartinJordan
Guest
Any idea? I’m not sure.
MJ
MJ
Radical Islam or True Islam? : Calling Jesus the Begotten Son of God is Blasphemy
- Status
D
drac16
Guest
That comes from true Islam. The Qur’an says, many times, that God has no son (or daughter for that matter). Surah 112 says “He neither begets, nor is born”.
M
MartinJordan
Guest
So, does Islam understand what it means? Because its much more nuanced and Holy and Loving than just saying “He begets not, nor is born”.
MJ
D
drac16
Guest
For sure, it’s a complex doctrine. Unfortunately, many muslims misunderstand what christians mean when they say that Jesus Christ is the Son of God. They think christians believe that God had sex with Mary, but that’s not what christians believe at all. From what I can tell, christians believe that he is the Son because He was begotten by the Holy Spirit (obviously not through sex, but through a miracle. Mary was a virgin). He’s the Son of the Father, but I don’t understand what that means.
I confess that I don’t quite understand the doctrines of Christ as they are taught within Christianity, especially the hypostatic union.
M
MartinJordan
Guest
That’s a fair comment. But when Muslims say it is blasphemous, I find it very hard to understand why in this day and age, this kind of language, without understanding (as you’ve admitted), is acceptable. Why not try to trace this teaching from those who experienced it?
I know this may be difficult for you to continue discussing it, but I hope you just see it as honestly seeking understanding from me as a Catholic who loves Muslims.
Peace be with you, Drac.
MJ
D
drac16
Guest
Ah yes, the world would be a better place if we understood each other more. Peace be with you as well.That’s a fair comment. But when Muslims say it is blasphemous, I find it very hard to understand why in this day and age, this kind of language, without understanding (as you’ve admitted), is acceptable. Why not try to trace this teaching from those who experienced it?
I know this may be difficult for you to continue discussing it, but I hope you just see it as honestly seeking understanding from me as a Catholic who loves Muslims.
Peace be with you, Drac.
MJ
N
Nigel7
Guest
Islam blatantly denies the divinity of Jesus Christ…
From the Koran, just a couple of the many verses denying the divinity of Christ;
“It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son.
yea, they (Christians) are a contentious people. He (Christ) was no more than a servant.”
19;35-59
Inscriptions on Islam’s dome on the rock mosque…
“It befitteth not (the Majesty of) God that He should take unto Himself a son.”
“Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son.”
“God, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son…”
“That is Jesus son of Mary, in word of truth, about which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son.”
Against the Christian Trinitarian concept of God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)…
“There is no god but God. He is One. He has no associate.”
“. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary, was only God’s messenger,… Do not say ‘three’ (Trinity). Refrain,…”
And on and on and on.
Holy Bible, 1 John 2:22;
“He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”
From the Koran, just a couple of the many verses denying the divinity of Christ;
“It is not befitting to (the majesty of) Allah that He should beget a son.
yea, they (Christians) are a contentious people. He (Christ) was no more than a servant.”
19;35-59
Inscriptions on Islam’s dome on the rock mosque…
“It befitteth not (the Majesty of) God that He should take unto Himself a son.”
“Far be it removed from His transcendent majesty that He should have a son.”
“God, Who hath not taken unto Himself a son…”
“That is Jesus son of Mary, in word of truth, about which they are doubting. It is not for God to take a son.”
Against the Christian Trinitarian concept of God (Father, Son, Holy Spirit)…
“There is no god but God. He is One. He has no associate.”
“. The Messiah Jesus son of Mary, was only God’s messenger,… Do not say ‘three’ (Trinity). Refrain,…”
And on and on and on.
Holy Bible, 1 John 2:22;
“He is antichrist who denies the Father and the Son.”
A
Adonia
Guest
The Muslim religion is blasphemous - it denies Christ’s divinity and claims that Mohammad is the final prophet of God, surpassing even Jesus (who is God incarnated on this earth). That is blasphemy.That’s a fair comment. But when Muslims say it is blasphemous, I find it very hard to understand why in this day and age, this kind of language, without understanding (as you’ve admitted), is acceptable. Why not try to trace this teaching from those who experienced it?
I know this may be difficult for you to continue discussing it, but I hope you just see it as honestly seeking understanding from me as a Catholic who loves Muslims.
Peace be with you, Drac.
MJ
A
Adonia
Guest
I understand the Muslim religion perfectly, don’t you?
A
arthra
Guest
From the Qur’an:
When the angel said, ‘O Mary! verily, God gives thee the glad tidings of a Word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, regarded in this world and the next and of those whose place is nigh to God. And he shall speak to people in his cradle, and when grown up, and shall be among the righteous.’
Note the various translations:
corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=3&verse=45
*O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word “Be!” - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus),
“Behold,” the angels told Mary, "God has given you the glad news of the coming birth of a son whom He calls His Word, whose name will be Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be a man of honor in this life and the life to come, and who will be one of the ones nearest to God.
When the angel said, ‘O Mary! verily, God gives thee the glad tidings of a Word from Him; his name shall be the Messiah Jesus the son of Mary, regarded in this world and the next and of those whose place is nigh to God. And he shall speak to people in his cradle, and when grown up, and shall be among the righteous.’
Code:
(The Qur'an (E.H. Palmer tr), Sura 3 (Imran's Family) starting with verse 45 - )corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=3&verse=45
*O Maryam (Mary)! Verily, Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word “Be!” - and he was! i.e. 'Iesa (Jesus) the son of Maryam (Mary)] from Him, his name will be the Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus),
“Behold,” the angels told Mary, "God has given you the glad news of the coming birth of a son whom He calls His Word, whose name will be Messiah, Jesus, son of Mary, who will be a man of honor in this life and the life to come, and who will be one of the ones nearest to God.
R
Rafaela
Guest
Hi,
I think you should search from youtube Dr. Mario Joseph, especially his conversion story. I believe he was talking about exactly about this with his head imam at the time. He is a former Muslim Imam who became Catholic Christian, and was nearly killed by his family because of it.
I think you should search from youtube Dr. Mario Joseph, especially his conversion story. I believe he was talking about exactly about this with his head imam at the time. He is a former Muslim Imam who became Catholic Christian, and was nearly killed by his family because of it.
K
KnowtheSilence
Guest
Muslims believe that Jesus was a prophet, a human only. To say that Jesus was God and to worship him is, from a Muslim perspective, an example of what they call shirk, which is the worst kind of sin you can commit.
R
Rafaela
Guest
Couple other very interesting points between Bible and Qur’an:
‘‘How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning (star)!’’ Isaiah 14:12
In Hebrew bibles it says …" oh how have you fallen, Hilal bin Sahar. " Hilal means crescent moon and Bin Sahar the morning star. Interesting in terms of symbolism. Where have we seen that before?
Secondly in Islam there is a devotion to 99 Names of Allah (with prayer beads and one of the names reflected on each bead) , couple of the interesting ones on view point of Christians are for instance: Al-Mutakabbir (the Most Proud One), Al-Mumit (Causer of Death) and Al-Makir ( The Great Deceiver).
‘‘How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning (star)!’’ Isaiah 14:12
In Hebrew bibles it says …" oh how have you fallen, Hilal bin Sahar. " Hilal means crescent moon and Bin Sahar the morning star. Interesting in terms of symbolism. Where have we seen that before?
Secondly in Islam there is a devotion to 99 Names of Allah (with prayer beads and one of the names reflected on each bead) , couple of the interesting ones on view point of Christians are for instance: Al-Mutakabbir (the Most Proud One), Al-Mumit (Causer of Death) and Al-Makir ( The Great Deceiver).
S
Son_of_Niall
Guest
Sounds like the same over the top accusations radical fundies make against Catholics.
S
Son_of_Niall
Guest
That’s a good way of starting debate and discussion. Just demonize the other side.
S
ShrodingersCat
Guest
A lot of protestants also condemn Catholics for being blasphemous re: our Lady and “statue worshipping”. They have less of an excuse for their ignorance as our religions are more similar and Protestants and Catholics have always co-existed in Western society since the reformation.That’s a fair comment. But when Muslims say it is blasphemous, I find it very hard to understand why in this day and age, this kind of language, without understanding (as you’ve admitted), is acceptable. Why not try to trace this teaching from those who experienced it?
I know this may be difficult for you to continue discussing it, but I hope you just see it as honestly seeking understanding from me as a Catholic who loves Muslims.
Peace be with you, Drac.
MJ
J
josh987654321
Guest
Yes, from what I have researched, in Islam, it is blasphemous. It makes sense that it’s blasphemy according to Islam and I also can’t see how it could ‘not’ be blasphemous according to Islam.
True Islam, not radical.
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Josh
J
josh987654321
Guest
Hi Rafaela
I’ve heard of references to the crescent moon before, I am not so sure on these sort of references, as according to some Islamic people, they are against any sort of depiction of Allah or Muhammad, and therefore are against the crescent moon as a symbol of Islam and I don’t think this is contrary to their Qur’an or Hadith, not that I have found anyway.
Nevertheless, it doesn’t seem to stop the crescent moon from being associated with Islam. So I don’t know.
I do have many concerns regarding Islam, but this would be lower on my list compared to some others such as the death penalty for apostasy etc.
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
J
josh987654321
Guest
Hi drac16
As a Christian, I believe it means that Jesus is one with the father and the father is one with Jesus and therefore Jesus is God.
And another way to explain it, is the forshadowment of Christ’s sacrifice on the cross, in that of Abraham going to sacrifice his only son Isaac, Isaac was Abrahams actual son and not a euphemism for other people or some other relationship with Abraham.
To simplify this as much as I can, If Jesus were to appear before me, I would say with St Thomas “My Lord and My God.” I do so before the Eucharist too.
The only difference being that Jesus has always been (John 8:58 “before Abraham was, I am.”), same with the Holy Spirit, God, the Trinitarian God (Father, Son & Holy Spirit), One God, Infinite, Eternal and One (The Alpha and Omega). How this fully works I don’t know, and I suspect it’s beyond our limited understanding anyway.
I hope this has helped
God Bless You
Thank you for reading
Josh
A
Adonia
Guest
So tell me, what do you think Jesus would tell you about himself and then Mohammad? There is real truth and one should not be afraid to say it and there is only one way to the Father - Jesus Christ! “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me” - true or not?
- Status