Raise taxes (Archbishop Flynn)

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katherine2:
A century? And not with the pope actively fighting such errors but remaining mute in correcting even a single bishop? We have 100 years and yet as even one of the popes setn so much as a single letter to a single bishop correcting his errors on his support for expansive social welfare?

it one thing to have a pope activily fighting error in the world at a time when bishops were locally elected. But in modern times when the pope selects most bishops, to not issue a public correction at all while the bishops constantly and consistently engage in this error? It doesn’t speak very well for the popes, does it?
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Perhaps you can list statements where the Catholic bishops unanimously and consistently supported these programs over a hundred years.

Start by listing all the Catholic bishops holding office in the United States during that period, and show where each supported all these programs.

Your problem, Dear, is you expect us to take you at your word – but when you make such blunders as claiming abortion was not illegal when the Constitution was rarified, we can be pardoned if we take your claims with a little salt.http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon12.gif
 
vern humphrey:
Perhaps you can list statements where the Catholic bishops unanimously and consistently supported these programs over a hundred years.

Start by listing all the Catholic bishops holding office in the United States during that period, and show where each supported all these programs.
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Vern, you know you are trapped and now you are trying to weasel out. Even the Ozark mountains kind hide that type of cowardice.

What you outline above is a silly excerize. You know darn well that the American Catholic bishops have a long and proud (in my view) history of supporting social welfare. You and Mutant and others have failed to produce a single statement from a single bishop either before or after the Council objecting to any social welfare initiative in the US as violating the principle of subsidarity. Now the unresolved issue is digging up all teh historical records and seeing if their is some aspect beyond what you and I know to be common knowledge. I gave one citation, but it wasn;t good enoguh because it wasn’t “on-line”.

The point is, if you beleive the Church’s traditional position on social welfare is bunk, be a big boy and say so. I’m not going to call you a bad Catholic. But stop pretending that soem secret cache of documents exists somewhere that contradicts what is common knowledge about Catholic social action.
 
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katherine2:
Didn’t I get blasted somewhere else for bringing abortion into a discussion? 😛
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We were discussing so-called charitable taxes the we are forced to pay regardless of our religious beliefs,I would say abortion is a biggy.Our rights are violated everytime we pay them because of that fact.No true Christian would feel bad for helping the less fortunate,but ALL true Christians should feel bad if they have helped in anyway to kill an innocent human.Until the democrats see that the “right to kill” is not charitable,the social works are a null and void argument.I will work within the faithful social works within the Church.
 
I got email notification of Katherine posting to this thread, but can’t find her post.

Katherine says :
“Vern, you know you are trapped and now you are trying to weasel out. Even the Ozark mountains kind hide that type of cowardice.”

Vern says:
"My aren’t we getting hot under the collar?"http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Katherine says :
**"**What you outline above is a silly excerize.

Vern says:
"English translation, ‘I can’t do it.’"http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Katherine says :
You know darn well that the American Catholic bishops have a long and proud (in my view) history of supporting social welfare.

Vern says:
"They haven’t said what you claim. If you want to continue with the claim, all you have to do is post the evidence"http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Katherine says :
You and Mutant and others have failed to produce a single statement from a single bishop either before or after the Council objecting to any social welfare initiative in the US as violating the principle of subsidarity.

Vern says:
"You haven’t produced a single statement which says the government should take over all charities. On the other hand, we have shown again and again how the Church views socialism and communism."http://forums.catholic-questions.org/images/icons/icon10.gif

Katherine says :
Now the unresolved issue is digging up all teh historical records and seeing if their is some aspect beyond what you and I know to be common knowledge. I gave one citation, but it wasn;t good enoguh because it wasn’t “on-line”.

Vern says:
“Katherine, dear, you need to be able to back up sweeping historic pronouncements with facts. You made such a pronouncement on the issue of abortion being not against the law at the time the Constitution was ratified, and it was quickly refuted. That’s why we ask you for cites now.”

Katherine says :
The point is, if you beleive the Church’s traditional position on social welfare is bunk, be a big boy and say so.

Vern says:
“Katherine, dear, I don’t believe the Church’s traditional position is bunk, I believe your representation of it is bunk.”

Katherine says :
I’m not going to call you a bad Catholic. But stop pretending that soem secret cache of documents exists somewhere that contradicts what is common knowledge about Catholic social action.
Vern says:
"Katherine, dear, I’m not going to call you a bad Catholic, either. But stop pretending that some secret cache of documents exists somewhere that proves your odd interpretation of the Church’s position.
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
We were discussing so-called charitable taxes the we are forced to pay regardless of our religious beliefs,I would say abortion is a biggy.Our rights are violated everytime we pay them because of that fact.No true Christian would feel bad for helping the less fortunate,but ALL true Christians should feel bad if they have helped in anyway to kill an innocent human.Until the democrats see that the “right to kill” is not charitable,the social works are a null and void argument.I will work within the faithful social works within the Church.
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You know, Lisa, I am deeply opposed to polices in some states that fund abortions. But the discussion here has been primarily about federal government spending. Now, I am not a big fan of the current President. But i do give him credit for two important positions. One is his Executive Order banning federal money for overseas abortions (the Mexico City policy) and the other is his support for the continution of the Hyde Amendment, which bans federal taxpayer money to be used for abortions domesticly.

So if you are saying that our federal tax dollars are going to pay for abortions, you have just busted one of the few positive features I beleived Bush had. So, he has lied to us all in claiming these acheivements? That is shameful. If a man would lie about protecting life, can we trust this President on anything?

Thank you for that important information. I’m shocked at Mr. Bush’s two-faced behavior on abortion, but i am glad I now have the facts from you.
 
vern humphrey:
I
Vern says:
"You haven’t produced a single statement which says the government should take over all charities.
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Becaus eit doesn’t exist. I’ve never said that. I’ve consitently said both have role. You are the one that says only church charities are permissable. If you want church statements on social welfare, I’ll start posting.
 
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katherine2:
You know, Lisa, I am deeply opposed to polices in some states that fund abortions. But the discussion here has been primarily about federal government spending. Now, I am not a big fan of the current President. But i do give him credit for two important positions. One is his Executive Order banning federal money for overseas abortions (the Mexico City policy) and the other is his support for the continution of the Hyde Amendment, which bans federal taxpayer money to be used for abortions domesticly.

So if you are saying that our federal tax dollars are going to pay for abortions, you have just busted one of the few positive features I beleived Bush had. So, he has lied to us all in claiming these acheivements? That is shameful. If a man would lie about protecting life, can we trust this President on anything?

Thank you for that important information. I’m shocked at Mr. Bush’s two-faced behavior on abortion, but i am glad I now have the facts from you.
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State taxes fund abortions in Tennessee,which are just another tax we are forced to pay.I didn’t negate the many pro-life successes by Our Presisdent.We are being taxed to death Katherine:nope: Taxes on everything whether federal,state, local or retail.We do not need any more taxes.God Bless
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
State taxes fund abortions in Tennessee,which are just another tax we are forced to pay.I didn’t negate the many pro-life successes by Our Presisdent.We are being taxed to death Katherine:nope: Taxes on everything whether federal,state, local or retail.We do not need any more taxes.God Bless
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So now you are not claiming that any of our federal taxes pay for abortions? which is it?
 
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops
Our Legislative Concerns in the 108th Congress
Socail Development

Benefits for Legal Immigrants: Support legislation to reverse the 1996 welfare reform law that made legal immigrants ineligible for federal benefit programs. (This is also a priority for Migration and Refugee Services)

Child Care: Monitor legislation to increase funding for child care and improved child care services. (This is also a priority for the Education Department)

Children"s Health & the Environment: Support of legislation that would protect children, born and unborn, from environmental factors that would endanger their health.

Civil Rights: Monitor legislation that attempts to address disparities resulting from discrimination and bias in all facets of American life.

Death Penalty:
  • “Innocence Protection Act” – support legislation to require access to DNA evidence and competent counsel for defendants in capital cases and death row inmates as part of a broader effort to end the death penalty.
  • Support a federal moratorium on the death penalty.
Faith-based Initiative: Support for legislation which would ensure a level playing field for faith-based and community-based groups, and new resources to serve the poor, while preserving the Title VII (Civil Rights) exemption for religious groups.

Fair Labor Standards Act: Monitor legislation that would erode work place protections including, but not limited to, 40 work week, overtime, compensatory time, etc.

Farm Bill Implementation: Support full funding of the Conservation Security Program, Food Stamps, and assistance to minority and beginning farmers and ranchers.

Federal Budget: Advocate for federal budget priorities and tax policies that would protect programs which help the poor.

Food & Nutrition\WIC: Work to achieve sufficient funding to ensure all eligible families receive these benefits.

Health Care & the Uninsured: Analyze and track proposals to expand health care coverage to 41,000,000 uninsured Americans, and support proposals that accomplish that goal.

Health Maintenance Organization (HMO) Reform: Monitoring legislation that would protect patients’ rights, especially low income and vulnerable patients.

Housing:
  • Support for legislation dealing with “predatory lending” that would end financial practices which target low income homeowners applying for loans, and other practices which are discriminatory and put low income home buyers at a disadvantage.
  • Support new resources to fund the development and maintenance of low income housing through the establishment of a national Affordable Housing Trust Fund.
Juvenile Justice: Monitor legislative efforts to increase investment in community-based juvenile crime prevention programs.

Medicare/Prescription Drugs: Monitor legislative proposals to provide prescription drug coverage and/or broader reform of Medicare to ensure adequate benefits for low income people.

Migrant Worker Benefits: Support fair wage, housing, and working conditions in legislation that affects migrant workers.

Minimum Wage: Support an increase in the minimum wage to help full-time low wage workers to support themselves and their families.

Public Health Reform: Monitor Healthtracking and other legislation that would track infectious diseases affecting children.

Social Security Reform: Track legislative developments to revise and reform the Social Security program, and address viable legislation, if appropriate.

Unemployment Insurance: Support for an extension of the federal unemployment insurance (Temporary Emergency Unemployment Compensation) for those who lose their benefits at the end of 2002.

Welfare Reform: TANF Reauthorization-Support for provisions in the reauthorization of the 1996 welfare reform bill that help families leave welfare for meaningful work; strengthen marriage and family life; and sustain the needy, especially children and immigrants.
 
USCCB Position

The USCCB supports reauthorization of the TANF program with policy changes that help, not hurt, low income families. While the PRIDE Act reflects some of our priorities, in many ways it falls short of the policies we support in TANF reauthorization, and we look for it’s improvement through amendments on the Senate floor. (Please see March 25 Action Alert and the attached letter to the Senate for more information). The bishops also support increasing the minimum wage and extending federal unemployment benefits for laid-off workers who haven’t been able to find a job but have used up their state benefits. Each of these crucial issues for low income families should be given a full and fair debate in the Senate on their own merits, not pitted against each other.
 
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Economic Justice for All. Washington, D.C., 1984
United States Conference of Catholic Bishops, Putting Children and Families First. Washington, D.C., 1991
 
Our Position:

Social Security: In May 1999, the Administrative Board of the U.S. Catholic Conference released a statement, A Commitment to All Generations: Social Security and the Common Good. In the statement, the bishops recognized that the Social Security program is the largest and one of the most successful social programs in the United States because it offers an effective, dignified way for Americans to honor their obligations to the elderly, persons with disabilities, and their dependents.

The statement identifies five key criteria which USCCB will use to evaluate reform proposals.
  • Changes in Social Security should not put at risk those individuals and families whose resources are already very limited.
  • The disability and survivors’ portions of the Social Security program should remain linked to the retirement portion to ensure continuity of commitment to workers and their families in cases of disability and death.
  • Any changes made in the tax structure should be weighted in favor of the poor. Those with lower incomes should bear less of the total Social Security tax burden than those who are more affluent.
  • Benefit inadequacies with respect to the benefits received by some women should be remedied.
  • Principles of equity and concern for the common good support bringing employees from all sectors of the economy into the Social Security program.
Medicare: In a letter sent to the Senate Finance Committee, Cardinal Mahony expressed his concern about the continuing ability of the Medicare program to fulfill its promise to those who rely on its services. He recognized the important role that Medicare plays in assuring genuine health coverage to the elderly and disabled. He noted that the bishops have long demonstrated their commitment to affordable and accessible health coverage for all people both through their public policy work and the numerous Catholic-sponsored hospitals, clinics and nursing homes.

The Cardinal also pointed to the Medicare program which has enabled health care to be offered in ways that recognize and protect human dignity. In order to continue to fulfill this mission, he called upon the Committee to recognize that the nation must commit sufficient resources to ensuring its financial solvency as well as reflecting the advances in medical care. In this time of projected budget surpluses, he urged Congress to dedicate a portion of projected surpluses to strengthening the financial stability of the Medicare program.
 
USCC Policy

Work has a special place in Catholic social thought: it is more than just a job, it is a reflection of human dignity and a way to contribute to the common good. Most importantly, it is the ordinary way people meet their material needs and community obligations. In Catholic teaching, the principle of a living wage is integral to our understanding of human work. Wages must be adequate for workers to provide for themselves and their families in dignity. While the minimum wage is not a living wage, the Church has supported increasing the minimum wage over the decades. The minimum wage needs to be raised to help restore its purchasing power, not just for the goods and services one can buy but for the self-esteem and self-worth it affords the individual.

**USCC Position and Strategy **

The United States Catholic Conference supports legislation (S192 and HR 325) introduced that would increase the minimum wage by one dollar ($1.00) over the next two years – bringing the level to $6.15 an hour. The Catholic Conference is urging Congress to raise the minimum wage in a timely and meaningful way!
 
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katherine2:
So now you are not claiming that any of our federal taxes pay for abortions? which is it?
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State Taxes that we are required to pay.Taxes are taxes and and as long as abortion is considered as charitable thanks to the democrats we have to pay them, am I not correct?Federal,state or local we shouldn’t be bound by law to pay them.Abortion is NOT charitable.
 
Our Position:

In Putting Children and Families First, the bishops called for public policy to ensure and promote family-friendly workplace arrangements, adequate funding of broad-based and inclusive child care and other essential services needed by families, especially poor families. In addition, they emphasized that the fact that children who are poor and in need of government aid should not take away their basic human right to be cared for by their parents if that is their family’s choice.

In light of the pressing unmet needs of children, USCCB supports an increase in mandatory funding for the Child Care Development Block Grant [CCDBG] to address the affordability of child care. Parents, earning between $5.50 and $10 an hour, simply cannot afford the full cost of even the least expensive child care. The supply of good quality, affordable child care must be fostered, developed and continually subsidized to allow low-income parents to work and support their families above the poverty line.

Meaningful child care legislation should provide more families with affordable, quality child care, including that offered by religious providers. Many parents prefer religiously-run child care centers above all other forms of child care, except that provided by a child’s own family members. In addition, USCCB urges that the needs of families who make a choice to forego some outside income in order to stay at home to care for their children should be considered in any policy on child care.

The results of the questionnaire sent out in 1999 with the annual Official Catholic Directory survey have been analyzed and offer some insight into the state of day care in the Catholic parishes. While the survey resulted in too small a sample to be generalizable, it suggests a wide range of services offered by parishes. Parishes offer day care, before and after school care, as well as early childhood programs. They serve children under age 5 and those older, Catholic and non-Catholic, including some with disabilities, across a range of ethnic backgrounds. Most of the parishes responding, that did not offer day care programs, said that inadequate funding, government regulations, staffing issues, and the absence of parental demand for such programs were the reasons for not providing early childhood programs.

What You Can Do:

Despite four Senate bipartisan victories to increase child care funding in 1999, the final budget bill approved by Congress last fall failed to increase child care funding at all. Urge the Administration and members of Congress to increase child care funding in this year’s budget.
 
**USCCB Position:
**As the welfare reform debate began, the bishops laid out a set of principles and priorities to guide true welfare reform. Among those priorities was preserving a safety net for poor children and families. They said that: “We cannot support reform that destroys the structures, ends entitlements, and eliminates resources that have provided an essential safety net for vulnerable children or permits states to reduce their commitment in this area. Also, we cannot support punitive approaches that target immigrants, even legal residents, and take away the minimal benefits that they now receive.” The current approach of time-limits, caps on benefits for additional children in some states and the enormous cuts in food stamps, especially for legal immigrants are still of concern to the bishops. Restoring some of these benefits is a priority.

What You Can Do
Urge your Senators and Representative to work for policies that will:
  • Restore benefits to vulnerable legal immigrants, especially the elderly;
  • Increase the vehicle allowance in the food stamp program.
Work with your local agencies that serve low-income families to be sure that they inform these families of their potential eligibility for food stamps even if they’ve exhausted their TANF benefits.
 
USCCB Policy

Medicaid
The bishops’ 1981 pastoral Health and Health Care calls for a universal national health insurance program. As a bridge to that goal, the bishops have supported expansion of Medicaid for all low-income persons who could not otherwise afford health insurance. Following the “option for the poor,” the USCCB has given first priority to the most vulnerable: pregnant women, children, frail elderly, and persons with disabilities.

In the past, concern was expressed about the use of managed care for Medicaid recipients without safeguards and oversight necessary to ensure that plans do not try to save money by limiting patient services inappropriately or by providing substandard services.

SCHIP
In The State Children’s Health Insurance Program: Guidelines for State Advocates, which was developed jointly by USCCB, CHA, and CCUSA, the guidelines called for coverage of as many insured children as possible with comprehensive benefits as well as more effective outreach efforts. Once the states have implemented their plans, consideration might be given to changes in the structure of the program to allow coverage of other vulnerable populations, e.g. pregnant women and families.

Medicare
USCCB has been supportive of the Medicare program with special attention to poor elderly who depend on both Medicare and Medicaid for their health care. When the commission’s recommendations are released, it will be necessary to evaluate their potential impact on vulnerable populations who depend on Medicare and its guaranteed benefits for their health care.

Action
  • Continue to insist that universal coverage is our goal.
    Currently more than forty-three million individuals lack health insurance and that number continues to grow. The costs of health care which had been growing at a slower rate in the last five years have begun to increase more dramatically making it more difficult for both individuals and businesses to buy health insurance. Although legislation to achieve universal coverage is not politically viable this year, the issue should still be raised with members in order to push it higher on their agenda.
  • Medicaid recipients should be protected as they are moved into managed care settings.
    Health and Human Services is still revising the regulations which will shape the protections which Medicaid recipients will have as their states move them into managed health care. Continue to support efforts to ensure that Medicaid recipients will have adequate access to quality health care providers and institutions without undue burdens.
  • Medicaid and SCHIP outreach efforts need to be strengthened.
    The President is developing an expanded outreach effort and a couple bills are being introduced to promote effective outreach. Rep. Diana DeGette [D-CO] will be introducing a bill [no number available] which would simplify outreach and enrollment by giving states some greater flexibility in their use of administrative funds and extending the availability of the $500 million available through the welfare reform legislation for outreach for Medicaid and SCHIP. The bill would also expand coverage options to include pregnant women and legal immigrants. Sen. Moynihan has introduced S. 206 which would strengthen the data collection sections of the SCHIP law. Support efforts to strengthen and expand both outreach and enrollment efforts for both Medicaid and SCHIP.
  • Medicare, as the guarantee of health care for the elderly, needs to be preserved.
    Medicare currently covers nearly 39 million elderly or disabled people. In 1995, nearly 40% of Medicare beneficiaries had family incomes below 200% of poverty. More than 10% of beneficiaries have incomes below 100% of poverty.
Some of the poorest elderly are eligible for enrollment in Medicaid as well as Medicare. The poorest of these “dual eligibles” have their Medicare premium, deductible and cost sharing requirements paid by Medicaid. Nearly 6 million Medicare beneficiaries [16%] qualified for this added assistance. Support efforts to protect the guaranteed benefits of Medicare and the protections for the poor elderly.
 
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Lisa4Catholics:
State Taxes that we are required to pay.Taxes are taxes and and as long as abortion is considered as charitable thanks to the democrats we have to pay them, am I not correct?Federal,state or local we shouldn’t be bound by law to pay them.Abortion is NOT charitable.
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And my understanding is that Tennessee does not fund abortions. So I think you are not corrrect. Anyway, if you are saying that paying federal taxes means you are funding abortion, then you are saying President Bush is a liar. Which is it?
 
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katherine2:
Becaus eit doesn’t exist. I’ve never said that. I’ve consitently said both have role. You are the one that says only church charities are permissable. If you want church statements on social welfare, I’ll start posting.
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No, dear. You have consistently pushed a statist position and claimed the Bishops support it.

You cannot show that the Church’s position is consistent with that.

And by the way, dear, you’re a little old to be playing the fool – as when you pretend that Bush is funding abortion. This thread started with the Minnesota bishops’ s support for raising STATE taxes, and in many states, tax money IS used to fund abortions.
 
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