Raising Catholic Kids When I Don't Believe

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Lies create a false sense of security. The bottom will fall out of this when your children find out you never believed. If God is not real, there is not security because the things you value in the church have absolutely no meaning: example- caring for others, feeding the poor, etc.
Amen! Parents tell their kids pleasant but untrue stories about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and the like. And plenty of kids are genuinely badly affected when they find that their parents told them these things that they did not themselves believe.

Besides which, do you really want your kids to put God on the level of Santa Claus - as a comforting falsehood told to children but that no sensible adult believes?
 
Amen! Parents tell their kids pleasant but untrue stories about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and the like. And plenty of kids are genuinely badly affected when they find that their parents told them these things that they did not themselves believe.

Besides which, do you really want your kids to put God on the level of Santa Claus - as a comforting falsehood told to children but that no sensible adult believes?
I told me children the truth about Santa Claus and all the rest. Santa Claus/St Nicholas was particularly fun because a priest mentioned in a sermon that he had punched Arius in the nose 🙂

All the rest, I told them, was just fun stuff for kids, not supposed to be seriously believed.
 
Amen! Parents tell their kids pleasant but untrue stories about Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny, the Tooth Fairy and the like. And plenty of kids are genuinely badly affected when they find that their parents told them these things that they did not themselves believe.

Besides which, do you really want your kids to put God on the level of Santa Claus - as a comforting falsehood told to children but that no sensible adult believes?
Here’s a lady who helps children do their chores. She books herself as The House Fairy. Do you think it would be harmful to use her fun system to reward children for keeping their rooms clean?

😃

I’d be more worried if my children could not recognize a bit of societal fun/foolishness and took everything so seriously that it shattered their world when they learned that I played Santa Claus.
 
Here’s a lady who helps children do their chores. She books herself as The House Fairy. Do you think it would be harmful to use her fun system to reward children for keeping their rooms clean?

😃

I’d be more worried if my children could not recognize a bit of societal fun/foolishness and took everything so seriously that it shattered their world when they learned that I played Santa Claus.
Ha Ha, but if kids are told to clean their room they should or be grounded, this is a bit much, House Fairly, why not just have the fairly clean their room?

So you wore the Santa Suit and ate the cookies and drank the hot chocolate (sp?), 😉

My 4 year old grand dtr asked her Mom to get a bigger car, and she said why, and the grand dtr said so you can drive my “girlfriends and me around” such is the life of day care. I swear kids are so smart these days.
 
Here’s a lady who helps children do their chores. She books herself as The House Fairy. Do you think it would be harmful to use her fun system to reward children for keeping their rooms clean?

😃

I’d be more worried if my children could not recognize a bit of societal fun/foolishness and took everything so seriously that it shattered their world when they learned that I played Santa Claus.
So God becomes no more than ‘a bit of societal fun/foolishness’ not to be taken seriously for the child of the OP, since the child’s parents don’t believe in God like they don’t believe in Santa or the Tooth Fairy. Which is exactly the comparison many an atheist makes because that is exactly what they connect it with when they find out that many people talk about God without believing.
 
So God becomes no more than ‘a bit of societal fun/foolishness’ not to be taken seriously for the child of the OP, since the child’s parents don’t believe in God like they don’t believe in Santa or the Tooth Fairy. Which is exactly the comparison many an atheist makes because that is exactly what they connect it with when they find out that many people talk about God without believing.
Oh my gosh…are you kidding me?? That is so NOT what I said!!!

God DOES NOT equate to Santa Claus in most kids’ minds!!! And if my kids can’t tell reality (i.e. that the Creator of the Universe and everything in it really exists) from fantasy (Santa Claus) then we have a problem.

Did you not get the memo that Santa Claus i.e. St. Nicholas really existed, and did charitable works?

I do not believe for one second that a child turns into an atheist when they find out that Mom and Dad were playing Santa Claus, and in fact, your statements insult God by assuming children don’t know the difference.
 
Ha Ha, but if kids are told to clean their room they should or be grounded, this is a bit much, House Fairly, why not just have the fairly clean their room?

So you wore the Santa Suit and ate the cookies and drank the hot chocolate (sp?), 😉

My 4 year old grand dtr asked her Mom to get a bigger car, and she said why, and the grand dtr said so you can drive my “girlfriends and me around” such is the life of day care. I swear kids are so smart these days.
No, the House Fairy brings them little treats when they do their chores, it’s the opposite of punishment and it’s fun to do. Why not have a little fun with little kids instead of everything being so deadly S-E-R-I-O-U-S…

I never wore a Santa suit, but yes, I ate the cookies and wrote the thank-you notes from Santa. Some people really get into it, going outside and ringing sleigh bells, leaving boot prints in the snow or on the carpet, even leaving reindeer poop outside! That’s going a mite too far IMO but I still don’t believe that’s what turns people into atheists.
 
No, the House Fairy brings them little treats when they do their chores, it’s the opposite of punishment and it’s fun to do. Why not have a little fun with little kids instead of everything being so deadly S-E-R-I-O-U-S…

I never wore a Santa suit, but yes, I ate the cookies and wrote the thank-you notes from Santa. Some people really get into it, going outside and ringing sleigh bells, leaving boot prints in the snow or on the carpet, even leaving reindeer poop outside! That’s going a mite too far IMO but I still don’t believe that’s what turns people into atheists.
** I still don’t believe that’s what turns people into atheists** Oh my gosh poop outside, yes going a bit to far.:eek:

no me neither, but I think some of it today might be peer pressure and school, and news media. In some ways I think people are (or some are ) becoming more spiritual. I don’t know, its hard for us to imagine since we have always believed I think, but I do think as we read here, many athesist come to believe again and are rejoining a church.

But House Fairly is a bit to much for me, maybe a ice cream cone for cleaning the room,
 
The very definition of hypocrisy is to pretend to the world to believe in something you really don’t. So basically, you just asked the forum if hypocrisy is a good parenting method. Answer: no.

If your husband genuinely believes, then by all means allow him to raise the kids in the faith. Don’t undermine him, but while the kids are really little let him be the example for them and the explainer. When the kids get big enough to ask awkward questions, just admit your difficulties. You don’t have to be dogmatic about your doubt, just admit you struggle with God and have trouble with your faith.

But the worst thing you could ever do is pretend to be a believer. They will find you out and it will spark MASSIVE rebellion. Kids are the ultimate hypocrisy detectors.

Pet theory alert: I suspect that this is what messed up the Baby Boomers so badly as a generation. The WWII generation lost their faith in the horrors of the war, but continued to pretend they had it. Their kids recognized bull manure when they saw it and the rest was history. Don’t repeat that period!
 
Good heavens, I am appalled by some of the things I have read.

The original poster is seeking to fulfill her duty as the primary educator of her children. She promised to raise them as Catholics at their baptism and she is being utterly selfless in imbuing them with the faith that she herself struggles with. You are asking her to neglect her children’s spiritual care and why? because she herself struggles with doubts, but sincerely seeks answers? She wants to believe so badly and is happy to receive any recommendations that might help her believe. She says that she hopes to find evidence that would help her to believe, and she is happy to raise her children Catholic and take them to Mass and she sees great benefit in doing so.

To those who object to her doing this, please consider what exactly you propose as an alternative? I am finding it difficult to believe that some people take their suggestions to their logical end.

The reality is, everybody has a metaphysical orientation. There is no “neutral” position, and her children will end up as theists or non-theists in some form—they may be monotheists, or they may be atheists, or they may be secular humanists, but they WILL end up with a metaphysical orientation, hopefully the one that contains objective truth. Will her own doubts impede their spiritual development? I doubt it, if she does not reveal them age-inappropriately. They may even affirm their faith. Personally, I find it very comforting to know that intellects much greater than my own have wrestled with doubts and difficulties and came to the conclusion that the Catholic Church has the answers.

Believe it or not, the fact that the disciples doubted Christ after the Resurrection also confirms my faith to some extent. It helps me to believe that there was nothing fishy going on and also that apostles were not just “sheeple” drinking the kool-aid. The radical change from St. Peter who doubted Christ, St, Peter who denied Christ, and St. Peter who do not expect Christ to come back from the dead to St. Peter who boldly preached Christ, was happily imprisoned for Christ and died willingly for Christ is a testament in itself. Doubts are not always a sign of unbelief, but of trying to reach a deeper belief. They can actually be healthy. They do not necessitate a person eschewing Catholicism. And besides, who’s to say her doubts won’t be resolved eventually? Her heart is open and she is seeking truth.
 
I didn’t read the question as one from somebody struggling with doubts. I took away the idea that she outright disbelieves in catholicism, but finds the culture appealing in a quaint sort of way. I stand by my stance. Hypocrisy is the surest innoculation against faith. Just take a look at the fruit of the rebellious ‘catholic’ colleges out there these days. If the husband is a believer, he should be the sponsor of the children’s faith. It’s no help to pretend to believe what you simply don’t.

Now if she’s merely struggling to deal with feelings of aloneness compared to the teaching of God as Father, that’s rather different. In fact that’s Mother Theresa! But that’s not how I read her. Big difference, IMO.
 
Sorry, but the Catholic Church beatified one such “hypocrite”, and yes, that was Blessed Mother Teresa. It was not just a feeling of spiritual dryness, and abandonment that she suffered. Read her letters from “Come be my Light”. She also suffered from doubts about the faith (heaven and God) for the decades leading up to her death and was “acutely aware” that “the mask”, as she called it, would be labeled as hypocrisy by others. In 1959, she wrote “If there be no God – there can be no soul – if there is no Soul then Jesus – You also are not true.” Hagiographers note that her spiritual darkness was of a magnitude that they had never seen in any saint before. Her interior life was wracked with doubts about God’s existence, but she chose to act differently. We are not judged by our feelings, because the movements of the sensitive appetite are amoral per se. (See Aquinas) It is what we choose to do with them, actively employing our reason and will, that we are held accountable for. With Mother Teresa, the fact that she was able to accomplish all that she did whilst suffering from the severe doubts that she had seems like it could only be attributed to supernatural aid a.k.a. divine grace.

I definitely do not think the term hypocrite applies to the original poster in any way. Follow through a few more of her posts, and you will see that she is earnestly seeking answers and is happy to receive any recommendations for reading material that might help her to believe. Her metaphysical orientation is still forming, it is not set in stone.

Plus, the reality is, non-theism is as much a system of belief as theism, and based on what she is writing, I don’t think she is convinced that atheism, or deism, or dualism, or pantheism, or secular humanism, or agnosticism, or any other version of metaphysical orientation is necessarily the belief that contains objective truth. Keep in mind that personally not knowing the answers is not agnosticism (agnosticism is saying that any metaphysical claims are pretty well universally unknown AND unknowable.) Because she is not convinced of any one position, then any position, whether one of action or even inaction towards her children, would be considered “hypocritical” right now by that standard, and yet she still has an obligation towards her children’s education. So if this were in fact “hypocrisy” (which I don’t think it is) and hypocrisy was the standard, then it would be a catch 22.

Luckily, hypocrisy is not the standard. To discredit or dismiss Catholicism based on an argument of hypocrisy is actually a logical fallacy known as “tu quoque”, or (surprise, surprise!) the “appeal to hypocrisy”. So for this reason, when an alcoholic/drug addict says “Don’t drink/do drugs. It’s bad for you and will make you unhappy long term”, the validity of his statement is not affected by his personal failure. His actions do not define the veracity of his statement, and the inconsistency between what he says and what he does does not negate the truth of his position. An overweight parent still has an obligation to ensure that his children are fit and healthy. Is it better if he himself is fit? Of course! Is it also better that if he himself is not fit, then at least he is striving to get fit and healthy? Of course! (And this is pretty much where the OP is in regards to faith—striving for truth!) But even if a parent is not fit, and not even trying to get fit, he still has that obligation to raise healthy fit children regardless…

Furthermore, don’t forget that if she raises her children Catholic, there will be other faith influences in their lives. They will encounter teachers, peers, chaplains, nuns, pastors, and parishioners. Godparents are also supposed to help raise the children in faith if the parents are unable to do so. (But obviously the original poster is more than willing to do so. Kudos to her!)

Finally, I don’t think the naysayers are giving Catholicism enough credit. Catholicism will either fall or stand on its own merits, and I am of the opinion that it will not crumble under a critical analysis. Yes, most people just have (and are happy with!) the “pablum” version of Catholicism—but if you search deeper, if you can critically think and apply the elements of a classical education, you will find that we have 2,000 years of brilliant thinkers and intellectual giants on our side. (And you know, there is that whole truth revealed by God thing!) To compare Catholicism to a belief in Santa Claus is actually kind of demeaning, because unlike Santa Claus, Catholicism is consistent with logic and philosophy, and will stand on its own merits. In the words of GK Chesterton, “The Christian ideal has not been tried and found wanting; it has been found difficult and left untried.”
 
I fully admit that I don’t know the OP and can only go by what she wrote here. Her description of her religious worldview is nothing like that of Mother Theresa. MT believed so profoundly that she continuously based her life on the conviction that the gospel is true, God is real, Grace is real and the Church was established by Christ to be the physical fount of Grace in human experience. She had struggles with how she FELT. The OP has stated she doesn’t believe in God. She’s concluded that the host is just dried wheat paste, that confession is just a talk with a man in robes. Again, I could be misreading her, but that’s how I understand it.

As for hypocrisy, you misread me. You practically make my point that hypocrisy is NOT acting differently than your stated beliefs, it is the PRETENSE that you believe something that you really don’t. For example, a Senator that runs on a “family values” stance, but has really had dozens of gay affairs his whole life is probably a hypocrite. He wants people to THINK that he holds certain convictions, but really he doesn’t. Your example of an alcoholic who knows very well the destructiveness of alcohol abuse can testify to it and still NOT be a hypocrite even if he falls off the wagon sometimes. See the difference? You are recommending that she be the former. That she pretend to believe when she doesn’t. THAT is hypocrisy. That’s nothing like MT (who had struggles with her feelings, but NOT her convictions). MT went to mass every day. The OP has stopped going to mass because she doesn’t believe in it (again, assuming I read her right). Big difference, no?

Also, don’t misunderstand me. I’m BIG on the catholic faith. I love it and I believe it is true! But I grew up in a culturally catholic milieu and went to catholic schools full of kids with parents like the OP. They liked the parish/school culture, they liked the academics, they liked that bullies and druggies weren’t tolerated, they liked the catholic football league. But Jesus was a nice fable to them, like the Easter Bunny. Their kids saw through it and wanted no part of faked faith. Don’t do it to your kids.

The OP hasn’t said if her husband believes (Edit fact check: He’s not so sure either…). If so, I’ve already provided an alternative. If not, that’s trickier. I still don’t believe it’s helpful to lie to the kids and teach them to believe something you personally disbelieve. At best, you can present it and be honest and admit that you struggle with God and often don’t feel like He’s very close to you. That way they won’t have the anger and betrayal when the DO learn how you really feel.
 
Manualman,
She is in search. She doesn’t disbelieve, she just doesn’t believe. I think that if she makes the effort to truly raise her children in the Faith, praying the Rosary each night, teaching them the Catechism, that she will receive faith.

Additionally, since she really wants to believe, when she comes to believe, which seems quite likely, then her children will already be on board, so to speak. It’s a lot tougher to change course *towards *God than away from Him, no?
 
When I had a time of serious doubt, I had this thought, “Even if it (Catholicism) is not true, it is so beautiful, I want to live it as if it is.”

This thought kept me going until I was ready to accept the gift of faith more fully.

Maybe it’s enough for now. 🙂

op: you are in my prayers.
 
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