Raising of Hands During the Recitation of 'Our Father' during mass

[Neicy1951]

we don’t do this sort of thing at the EF Mass.

I hope I remember that when I go to my first one tommorrow.

 

[Neicy1951]

It IS wrong for people to sing along with the priest’s part, (luckily, only once in a while, some flakey person will do that), and be severely glared at by others!

I’m so used to singing with the choir that I was probably the flake

But seriously, I didn’t know that the hands thing is not in the rubrics. See? I am learning!

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings to those reading and or posting to this thread,

That is one thing that bothers me when I travel to the United States of America and see others raising their hands during the “Our Father.” It is not in the rubrics and we are clearly instructed not to imitate the priest in his actions. I know that this has become a point of contention with my relatives as they always want to reach and grab my hands during the ‘Our Father.’ I find it distasteful and a bit distrubing. So before Mass, I usually have a talk with my friends and families please do not reach for my hands, as I perfer to bow my head in prayer and keep my hands clasped together. A few talks such as these have straightened things out.

I usually attend the EF if there is any in the area, and my relatives and friends will attend the Novus Ordo Missae.

God bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Sirach2]

Dear Anathama Sit,

I’m very surprised to read that this is a practice elsewhere other than here in the USA. What country are you from? Has this been done for a number of years? I’m also surprised to learn that you are able to go to the EF liturgy. I’m aware that France has a lot of FSSP priests, but I’m not too familiar elsewhere. It seems to me that hand-holding at an EF liturgy would not be done anywhere. Do you pray it in latin?

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Dear Anathama Sit,

I’m very surprised to read that this is a practice elsewhere other than here in the USA. What country are you from? Has this been done for a number of years? I’m also surprised to learn that you are able to go to the EF liturgy. I’m aware that France has a lot of FSSP priests, but I’m not too familiar elsewhere. It seems to me that hand-holding at an EF liturgy would not be done anywhere. Do you pray it in latin?

Greetings Sirach2,

Oh, I meant my last post when I went and visited in the United States of America when I go to the Novus Ordo Missae with my relatives. Yes I go to the EF when visiting in the United States of America if there is one to be found in the area.

No, no holding of hands done in EF, I am sorry if I was a bit misleading in my last post. I did not mean to be. My last post was directed and meant to say what I would do if I was in the United States of America.

In other countries, we do not have a problem with raising of the hands during the ‘Our Father’.

As to my country, suffice it to say that I usually spend my time between three, and I consider them all as home. Depending on whether I am attending school or not or if I am vacationing or not. I hope you understand, I am not really comfortable in saying where I am from any more specific than that.

I hope my post is a bit less confusing. My apologies.

God bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Sirach2]

:ehh: Not sure what to think about your reply - almost looks like dancing around the question.

Do you attend the EF in your other two countries or only in the US? If so, how accessible is the EF in these countries? Every Sunday during morning hours? Or is it relegated to odd times that many traditionalists complain about?

In the EF for YOUR country, is the common **prayer **of the Our Father prayed in latin, or do they use some vernacular, as for the readings, which I presume is English. Possibly you speak a foreign language as well, but I am guessing you are from one of the English-speaking countries due to your fluency.

[Why all the secrecy? There’s no way to tie anything to you without the name of a city and using an anonymous name. You speak continuously of not being American, which encourages members to ask “where, then?” Maybe you should drop the excessive references. ]

 

[At_Trent]

lol, Some will find anything to argue about.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Greetings Sirach2,

Do you attend the EF in your other two countries or only in the US? If so, how accessible is the EF in these countries? Every Sunday during morning hours? Or is it relegated to odd times that many traditionalists complain about?

EF is available in several other countries than the United States of America. I have attended EF in Germany, Austria, France, Italy, United Kingdom, and other countries. If you don’t mind reading in foreign languages then here’s a website that I have often used in locating EF in other countries.

honneurs.free.fr/Wikini/wakka.php?wiki=PagePrincipalEn

I also plan my trips accordingly if I can attend EF, if it is not out the way and if offered at a good time. Most times are reasonable as you can see the various times that they have offered EF. I have found out that they are pretty accessible to me, of course I plan to attend them and plan my schedule around them. I also call the diocese that I am planning on going to to ask if there are any EF Masses in the area, they are most helpful and have pointed me to them before.

In the EF for YOUR country, is the common **prayer **of the Our Father prayed in latin, or do they use some vernacular, as for the readings, which I presume is English. Possibly you speak a foreign language as well, but I am guessing you are from one of the English-speaking countries due to your fluency.

Vernacular for the readings. Latin for the Our Father.

God bless.
Anathama Sit

 

[Sirach2]

Dear Anathama Sit,

Thanks much for your reply. You are one of the first persons I have come across who attends the EF liturgies internationally, and naturally, it was of much interest to me to learn how it is celebrated outside of our country. So if you are in Germany and the readings are in the vernacular, but you don’t understand German, do they have pamphlets at the door – in english – to enable the readings to be understood since english is such a universal vernacular? I like the idea that the liturgy itself is in latin, for that would accomodate everyone, no matter what country you are in.

 

[Anathama_Sit]

Dear Anathama Sit,

Thanks much for your reply. You are one of the first persons I have come across who attends the EF liturgies internationally, and naturally, it was of much interest to me to learn how it is celebrated outside of our country. So if you are in Germany and the readings are in the vernacular, but you don’t understand German, do they have pamphlets at the door – in english – to enable the readings to be understood since english is such a universal vernacular? I like the idea that the liturgy itself is in latin, for that would accomodate everyone, no matter what country you are in.

Greetings Sirach2,

You are welcome for the response. I hope that the website will be of benefit to those who wish to attend EF internationally.

There are some EF Masses to where they do everything in Latin. And so a little preparation is helpful. Most of the time they do not have the English translations in some of the countries. However, getting a Roman Missal ahead of time and printing out the readings helps one to follow along in the Mass.

Some of the Churches will have the readings available at the door in English because English is a universal langauge. It has helped to get the Roman Missals that are in each countries langauge, because I can read some of the common foreign langauges and understand them, I just cannot speak them. How I wish I could speak more langauges.

Yes the litrugy in the Latin makes it easier, that way a person can follow along with the Latin and their langauge that they speak.

I wondered if anyone else attended EF internationally on this site. I am sure there are other Catholics out there that do.

God bless you.
Anathama Sit

 

[vardaquinn]

The raising of the hands, or the “orans” style of prayer, is very historically and biblically rooted, but for liturgical use only the priest is allowed to do it. It’s a “protected gesture”. Only the priest can do this, unless there is express approval from the local bishop or ecclesiastical authority. But otherwise, it’s a liturgical abuse considering the importance and symbolism of the gesture. Though I myself would be in favor of it being universally approved for use throughout the Church.

 

[Servulus]

In all the comments on the numerous threads related to this topic, there comes to mind not one that addresses this question:

Let us suppose that a typical Sunday Mass lasts one hour. Why are so many who promote or insist on a specific hand position during the 40 seconds or so it takes to say the Our Father, unconcerned about what’s to be done with the hands for the remaining 59 minutes and 20 seconds?

Just curious.

 

[MarkThompson]

. . . but for liturgical use only the priest is allowed to do it. It’s a “protected gesture”.

Then I’m sure it’ll be easy for you to point us to the Church document that creates the protection for this gesture, or at least some document or other reference that discusses the general concept of “protected gestures” and “unprotected gestures.”

 

[Rahn]

No, I meant what I said-

’whenever I pray it is with open hands’

If I am at Mass, when I am standing I have my hands positioned palms up, one hand in the other
(almost like one would receive communion, but not as “tight”, I’m not quite sure how to explain it) at about waist level and touching my body.
If I am sitting, my hands are in my lap the same way.

Kneeling can be a challenge to pray with “open hands”,
it all depends on the configuration at the particular parish I’m at.
So, maybe not ALWAYS!

When I pray the Our Father, my hands are open and in front of me,with just the tips of my longest fingers touching I do elevate them slightly at the doxology,
but nothing that is obtrusive to anyone around me.

Some people have questioned it, not because they thought it was wrong,
but wanted to know why I didn’t pray with my hands together.
When given my reasons, every single person
has said to me what a beautiful and meaningful gesture it is,
and that it made them think more about how they pray.:getholy:

I work for the Church, and most of the priests, and my Bishop,
have also commented on how such a simple gesture could mean so much,
and that if it helps me to remember that it is God who is ultimately in control
then there is no reason for me to stop the practice.

And FWIW-
*this is just an "in general comment, *
not specifically addressed to the post quoted above, and something I have wanted to say for a long time!!

The argument about blurrring the lines between priests/laity when the laity use the orans position-
I’m sorry, but this is just complete hogwash!!! :dts::tsktsk:

I am a 40-something, “pleasantly plump” woman who wears carpris, a nice top & Birkenstocks to Mass.
If anyone mistakes me for a priest I would think that they need to have more than just their eyes examined!! :whacky:

I loved both of your posts on this subject!

 

[DaveBj]

The raising of the hands, or the “orans” style of prayer, is very historically and biblically rooted, but for liturgical use only the priest is allowed to do it. It’s a “protected gesture”. Only the priest can do this, unless there is express approval from the local bishop or ecclesiastical authority. But otherwise, it’s a liturgical abuse considering the importance and symbolism of the gesture. Though I myself would be in favor of it being universally approved for use throughout the Church.

(Full disclosure in advance: I am a hand-folder, not a hand-raiser.)

How close to the priest’s hand position does the congregant’s position have to be before it becomes an imitation? If the priest’s hands are in front of him, and the congregant’s hands are overhead, how is that an imitation? If the priest’s elbows are bent at an acute angle (again, so his hands are in front of him), and the congregant’s elbows are more at a 90-deg angle, so his hands are more is at his side, is that an imitation? If the congregant is not intending to imitate the priests, but simply to express with a gesture his open-ness to God, is that an imitation?

 

[mcmitton]

My hands hurt. They hurt worse when an adjacent worshipper grabs my hand and clinches it so tightly that I wince. And I dread the coming of the words “for the kingdom and the glory …” because I know that my arn will be thrust upward, and the hands will hurt again.

And there are some in our congregation who will literally hold hands across pew backs, across the aisles ad nauseam.

They say it is a sign of unity. I gently respond that our sign of unity is the Eucharist.

The most painless masses occurred when I had a cast, then brace, for a broken wrist. Hmmmm, I think I still have that wrist brace around here somewhere

Or maybe I can sneeze into my hands just before the “Our Father …” and use Purel to sanitize them afterwards before I touch anything.

Yes, I am grouchy. As a relatively new Catholic [2000], I wish to conform to the gestures and postures appropriate to the congregation properly. The priest observes proper liturgy, and I expect to do my part properly as well, and I’d like the others to do so too.

Thanks for letting me vent. And I continue to pray for a proper respectful participation in the mass.

 

[brigid12]

Although the orans posture is not spoken of in the rubrics, neither is holding hands during the Pater Noster. When I just closed my eyes and folded my hands people around me people were icy to me at the Kiss of Peace. If I close my eyes and hold my hands in front of me at waist level, in the orans posture people seem to accept that as not being offensive to them (every one around this area holds hands then). But people can’t easily hold hands with me either. I prefer charity to what I would prefer.

 

[maryj]

ewtn.com/expert/expertfaqframe.asp

From ewtn

 

[roads152]

brigid12 wrote: “Although the orans posture is not spoken of in the rubrics, neither is holding hands during the Pater Noster.”

With regards holding hands during the Pater Noster, I agree that the rubrics are silent.
With regards orans posture, however, I chanced on the words “Extendit manus” printed in red before the Pater Noster in the Ordo Missae portion of MISSALE ROMANUM published before the reform of the Second Vatican Council. If my memory serves me right, the priest, with extended arms while we have our hands joined, in those days as we recited the Pater Noster in Latin. I was then an altar boy.
The Vatican II Sunday Missal have the words “Priest and People” in red prints before the Our Father.
I have observed in the sixties up to early seventies that only the priests celebrating the Mass are assuming the orans posture.
The holding of hands, waving, even dancing and saying “praise the Lord” aloud began to be observed during the so-called Charismatic Mass and then over-flowed to the common celebration of the Eucharist in many parishes.
This phenomenon could have prompted the Holy Father to exhort us to stick to the rubrics of the Mass in order to have solemnity celebrating the Eucharist.

 

[nelson_quijano]

its a gesture of love and worship to our God. Without doing this action i feel unworthy in his presence.