Raising taxes on the rich

[MillTownCath]

Tax should be seen as a penalization. Ideally no one should be taxed on their income because you’re penalizing people for what you want them to be doing, working and making income.

Taxing the rich comes from the mentality of “they have so much, they can give more.” But you can also have the mentality of “you’re penalizing people for being successful”. In Canada, (I presume similarly in the States) we have multiple income tax brackets.

So one of my math teachers explained that, despite the school wanting her to teach another math class and take a full time position, it would result in a lowered income because she would be bumped up to another tax bracket.

So all in all, ideally a Republican should be against taxation on income (but often we see the opposite at work).

-Prophesy

Nobody wants to raise taxes if you can help it, but as proven by the release of the Ryan plan, people are just as opposed to giving up Government services as they are to new revenue.

We are all being penalized by the irresponsible behavior on the part of Wall Street.

I don’t see how “hey, you can’t afford health insurance, so have fun not having health insurance while we cut the budget” is any better than raising taxes on the rich.

“Oh no, I make less money but am still well off in terms of the rest of the country.”

“Oh no, If I get sick, I’ll probably die as I can’t afford health insurance in our broken system.”

 

[copperblade]

Why do the republican resist raising taxes on the rich?Its been proven that it won’t produce more jobs to cut their taxes and they can’t say that its unfair because they already pay most of the taxes.When you compare how much they pay %wise compared to the amount of the wealth they control its surely obvious that they don’t pay enough.We know that the tax rate system has benifited the rich making them able to gain such wealth.Is it there lobbying to republican members(the spend much money in their support and actually get them elected through many means)the reasons the members are against it?

Actually, why don’t we start with just getting rid of tax breaks and credits and dodges and loopholes by simplifying the tax code before we raise or lower any taxes? The problem is it’s become way too complicated to figure out who pays what or who should pay what. Then if it means we’re paying too much tax, we can look at lowering it.

I think the problem with raising taxes for the “rich” is that there will be lobbies to make more credits against the taxes, and it all becomes a form of social engineering. I keep seeing this thing come up about GE not having paid any taxes last year. When I see that, I actually feel bad for “rich” people who had to pay taxes…

 

[MillTownCath]

Actually, why don’t we start with just getting rid of tax breaks and credits and dodges and loopholes by simplifying the tax code before we raise or lower any taxes? The problem is it’s become way too complicated to figure out who pays what or who should pay what. Then if it means we’re paying too much tax, we can look at lowering it.

I think the problem with raising taxes for the “rich” is that there will be lobbies to make more credits against the taxes, and it all becomes a form of social engineering. I keep seeing this thing come up about GE not having paid any taxes last year. When I see that, I actually feel bad for “rich” people who had to pay taxes…

The only time I feel bad for rich people is when they are no longer rich.

 

[mary_bobo]

Well of course im not proposing anything like 94% but as it stands federal income tax for the wealthiest is like 16% compared to 23% for the rest of us.The tax rate for the wealthiest have never been higher than the ordinary citizen so I can/t say if we’d be better off.

Something you might think of is that many wealthy people do not pay income taxes because they do not work. But they certainly pay capital gains taxes and tax on investment interests. In many cases that adds up to quite a lot. And if you are unhappy with the tax rate, talk to the Dems. They do not want to change the tax program to make it more helpful to those who do not pay taxes, of which there are far too many.

 

[copperblade]

The only time I feel bad for rich people is when they are no longer rich.

Ok, fair enough

I just mean to say it seems a lot easier for corporations to get out of paying taxes than for rich individuals.

 

[MillTownCath]

The facts are that the wealthy pay a disproportionate share of the taxes (in terms of absolute numbers) already. People tend to look at one part of the tax, say federal tax, and say they pay a disproportionately low amount. However, that’s the narrow point of view. They pay taxes that many others often don’t see…yacht tax, mansion and other real estate transfer tax, federal inheritance tax, etc. Quite frankly, they pay more then their fair share.

The problem is not with the wealthy paying too much tax, but rather reckless and unsustainable spending. In the U.S., they could simply confiscate the wealth of the top 1%, and it would barely be a blip on the radar screen when it comes to government obligations.

Medicare/Medicaid and the wars are to blame for the massive spending.

We need to do some serious reforming of our health care, not that watered down bill that passed. Health Insurance companies should not be FOR PROFIT. People should not be making billions off of people’s illnesses. It’s just disgusting.

Imagine if our police and fire departments worked like that.

People like Romney should not be looked down upon for making a health care system that actually works.

As far as the wars go, well, what a waste.

 

[MillTownCath]

Ok, fair enough

I just mean to say it seems a lot easier for corporations to get out of paying taxes than for rich individuals.

True enough!

 

[copperblade]

People like Romney should not be looked down upon for making a health care system that actually works.

So what is that system like?

Healthcare isn’t like other industries because it’s something where you get what you need now, and then figure out the compensation later. You can’t really “shop around” for the best price in certain areas. That seems to be the core of the problem. My wife is from Indonesia and their healthcare is much more market-driven. If you were in a car accident, and the doctor suspects you might not be able to pay… well too bad. We have laws against denying emergency services here, but then someone has to foot the bill one way or another.

 

[MillTownCath]

So what is that system like?

Healthcare isn’t like other industries because it’s something where you get what you need now, and then figure out the compensation later. You can’t really “shop around” for the best price in certain areas. That seems to be the core of the problem. My wife is from Indonesia and their healthcare is much more market-driven. If you were in a car accident, and the doctor suspects you might not be able to pay… well too bad. We have laws against denying emergency services here, but then someone has to foot the bill one way or another.

It is simply proven that we cannot rely on the market alone to provide everyone with good health insurance. It often times even leaves out the middle class, as well as the lower class.

Romneycare requires basically everyone living in Massachusetts to have a minimum level of healthcare insurance and provides free health care insurance for residents earning less than a certain amount but who are not eligible for Medicaid.

 

[valentino]

Something you might think of is that many wealthy people do not pay income taxes because they do not work. But they certainly pay capital gains taxes and tax on investment interests. In many cases that adds up to quite a lot. And if you are unhappy with the tax rate, talk to the Dems. They do not want to change the tax program to make it more helpful to those who do not pay taxes, of which there are far too many.

i knnow they pay capital gains and tax on investment interest.Now again you don’t have to agree but a guy like Bill Gates has his investment specialists which Im sure he pays well but there are many businesses which are sure profit makers if only they had someone with money to invest.A man of Gates’s means actually has to do nothing in the form of work but just let his money work for him.His invester knows where a sure investment is so Gates can make a huge profit by sittting at home.Im sure that more than half his money is from investments not Microsoft.When a persoon has a billion to invest its quite easy to double that or more from just one investment.THat’s why the rich become super rich.Capital gains is much the same.i have to admit that Gates is very smart and he worked very dilligently to get good grades and was very clever in his starting Microsoft.But I still think the wealthiest earners make much of their money to easily.But really its the state of the middle class and poor which i think about some.At this time they are hurting and it only seems fair that the wealthiest could afford to share a little.I might be wrong but I think about it anyway.

 

[valentino]

You can do the same if you have a one-person corporation. It has nothing to do with wealth.

You forget some other important points. Example: The $500,000-$1,000,000 real estate tax bill for the wealthy for their Palm Beach estate that greatly helps the municipalities coffers. The maintenance bill for that estate that can run a few hundred grand to several millions dollars that employs a great many people. The construction bills for the 50 people per day at $30-$50 per hour that helps run the local economy. And on, and on, and on.

I like the assumptions about who I listen to; very amusing. I’m not interested in the biased politically charged garbage.

I thank you fjor your comments.You have you’re pt.of view and I won’t say your wrong.I look at things a little differently.Maybe Im wrong.But still even with your view Im still not convinced.

 

[valentino]

Something you might think of is that many wealthy people do not pay income taxes because they do not work. But they certainly pay capital gains taxes and tax on investment interests. In many cases that adds up to quite a lot. And if you are unhappy with the tax rate, talk to the Dems. They do not want to change the tax program to make it more helpful to those who do not pay taxes, of which there are far too many.

From the many speeches ive heard from dems.they say they need to change the tax code.I haven/t heard anyone say he’s againsst changing it.

 

[valentino]

Some figures:

Estimates by the Tax Policy Center for 2010 of the distribution of income compared to the distribution of all federal taxes (personal income, payroll, and corporate) shows that households earning over about $212,000 earn about 30 percent of the nation’s income but pay more than 40 percent of all federal taxes.

So the question is, if 40 percent of the nation’s tax burden is not enough then what is the rich’s “fair” share of tax?

Since Im not an economist or tax expert I can/t say what a precise fair share is.But like O.said the people below $250,000 A YEARr shouldn’t pay more tax.its those above that should take more of the burden in this time of crisis.

 

[valentino]

It is unfortunate that so many people believe a basic economic lie.

If you destroy prosperity from the top down, who suffers first? The poor.

Do the poor create jobs? Look around you. Businesses are closing down everywhere. Prices are going up. This means more suffering for the poor.

Or are you of the opinion that the wealthy cram their money into mattresses and sit on it?

High taxes destroys incentive, destroys businesses, destroys prosperity, destroys the poor.

The Church specifically preaches against class envy but this falls on deaf ears, and in its wake causes much misery to the poor.

I believe it should be both ways.there should be certain welfare programs cut or eliminated.Personally i believe a lot of the research programs should be eliminated.All this space research stuff should be eliminated.(At this time)Much of the medical reserch should be eliminated.Ect.Education is completely out of hand.we’ve been discussing this for 50 yrs.increasing spending every term and are students are learning less than ever.But the rich should also chip in more.The middle and lower class should stay the same or go lower.There are so many projects that can be eliminated at this time.School lunch programs is a waste in my estimation.pet projects like building a new monument for soldiers or programs for saving one species of animal so we can’t drill or cut lumber.O.says this is for the future .But at this rate we won’t have a future.

 

[mary_bobo]

From the many speeches ive heard from dems.they say they need to change the tax code.I haven/t heard anyone say he’s againsst changing it.

Then why don’t they offer up a plan? The GOP has.

 

[mary_bobo]

i knnow they pay capital gains and tax on investment interest.Now again you don’t have to agree but a guy like Bill Gates has his investment specialists which Im sure he pays well but there are many businesses which are sure profit makers if only they had someone with money to invest.A man of Gates’s means actually has to do nothing in the form of work but just let his money work for him.His invester knows where a sure investment is so Gates can make a huge profit by sittting at home.Im sure that more than half his money is from investments not Microsoft.When a persoon has a billion to invest its quite easy to double that or more from just one investment.THat’s why the rich become super rich.Capital gains is much the same.i have to admit that Gates is very smart and he worked very dilligently to get good grades and was very clever in his starting Microsoft.But I still think the wealthiest earners make much of their money to easily.But really its the state of the middle class and poor which i think about some.At this time they are hurting and it only seems fair that the wealthiest could afford to share a little.I might be wrong but I think about it anyway.

Are you telling me then that those who have not worked as hard or made as good decisions about their lives are entitled to even more of those who have been successful than they are already getting? Sounds a lot like class envy to me. You seem to think that those who are well of just sat on their fannies and the money flowed in. Taint so.

 

[MillTownCath]

Minnesota: High taxes, unemployment numbers lower than national average.

Taxes are not the final factor in determining where a business goes.
An educated work force, population, and quality of life are just as, if not more important.

If higher taxes drive out corporations and businesses, why do so many of them stick around New York? Where is the mass exodus of New York companies to Utah and Arkansas?

If unions and corporate tax rates were the issue, there would be zero unemployment in Mississippi…you know, the capital of capitalism.

 

[Prophesy]

Nobody wants to raise taxes if you can help it, but as proven by the release of the Ryan plan, people are just as opposed to giving up Government services as they are to new revenue.

We are all being penalized by the irresponsible behavior on the part of Wall Street.

I don’t see how “hey, you can’t afford health insurance, so have fun not having health insurance while we cut the budget” is any better than raising taxes on the rich.

“Oh no, I make less money but am still well off in terms of the rest of the country.”

“Oh no, If I get sick, I’ll probably die as I can’t afford health insurance in our broken system.”

I was also trying to imply that taxation that doesn’t penalize income would be a better idea. But anyways, I blame your government (not mine ) for that little number on your healthcare system that got rushed through government. It still amazes me that it was possible to get such a debacle through.

-Prophesy

 

[valentino]

Then why don’t they offer up a plan? The GOP has.

This fair tax,flat tax,progressive tax,you name it has been being debated for a long time now.the legislatures haven’t been able to decide on what’s best.Yes,the GoP has made suggestions but they arent’ unified either.Most agree its either a flat or fair but I don’t believe the GOP has actually come to consensus on what tax should be used.

 

[valentino]

Are you telling me then that those who have not worked as hard or made as good decisions about their lives are entitled to even more of those who have been successful than they are already getting? Sounds a lot like class envy to me. You seem to think that those who are well of just sat on their fannies and the money flowed in. Taint so.

i never said that the less successful should be given the same priveledges as those who have worked hard and earned much money should have.This world will always have rich and poor.I believe that is not against what God intended.What should be done to people who are struggling during these difficult times?Maybe the reps.are right.I don;t know.Maybe neighbor will help neighbor and we’ll all get along.Maybe their policies are the best we can do.Maybe some of the enviormental concerns should be ignored like they recommend.Maybe few people will die because of polluted air and water.Maybe getting rid of a beautiful area because we need oil is worth the sacrifice.Its all a matter of what’s important to each of us and what’s important to us as a nation.Each has to make a decision.