Ralphy's Questions for Catholics

[SteveGC]

Good post, james.

I especially like the observant remark*…“That however does not create jealousies since the communion of the saints is an immediate sharing of all honor and glory a particular saint receives with the others in a way that brings all immense joy.”*

So, perhaps there is something to “greater and lesser” in heaven. But I think the focus on this theology that some protestants have actually can detract from their earthly walk in faith. I mean, we get blamed alot, erroneously, of working to merit (or provide for) our own salvation…which we don’t do. But couldn’t a valid argument be made that some protestants are, in fact, working to merit reward in heaven, which is a concept fundamentally self-centered, based on personal gain, and not the glory of God?

Just a thought…

 

[CentralFLJames]

Good post, james.

I especially like the observant remark*…“That however does not create jealousies since the communion of the saints is an immediate sharing of all honor and glory a particular saint receives with the others in a way that brings all immense joy.”*

So, perhaps there is something to “greater and lesser” in heaven. But I think the focus on this theology that some protestants have actually can detract from their earthly walk in faith. I mean, we get blamed alot, erroneously, of working to merit (or provide for) our own salvation…which we don’t do. But couldn’t a valid argument be made that some protestants are, in fact, working to merit reward in heaven, which is a concept fundamentally self-centered, based on personal gain, and not the glory of God?

Just a thought…

We have paid way too much attention to Protestants sensitivity against merit and works and other Catholic teaching for our own good. There is real work and real reward that is personally meritable. What people need to see is that God gives us the spiritual coin so to speak (grace - a free gift as God apportions as He sees fit) to use or lend etc. It if very pleasing to God that we use our grace to help Him with good works. It’s like a father giving a child an allowance to spend and the child turning right around and using that allowance to buy his father a nice robe or new neck-tie. God loves it! It’s all God’s but He gives us the means by which to show our affections and He rewards us with even more grace and more spiritual gifts.

As for Protestants - they work hard to pretend they don’t work but can’t avoid it. The more they deny that works have anything to do with salvation the more they labor to promote their own gospel. It takes a lot of perspiration to remain Protestant in the face of True Catholic Teachings. To live and express oneself in life one must work since our life is a gift with a limited time. How we spend that time is both how we live and how we work. This is why the commandment to Love God and Neighbor is a mandate to live and work for each other and for God. It’s all works - but none of it is meritable without grace.

James

 

[ralphy]

Good post, james.

I especially like the observant remark*…“That however does not create jealousies since the communion of the saints is an immediate sharing of all honor and glory a particular saint receives with the others in a way that brings all immense joy.”*

So, perhaps there is something to “greater and lesser” in heaven. But I think the focus on this theology that some protestants have actually can detract from their earthly walk in faith. I mean, we get blamed alot, erroneously, of working to merit (or provide for) our own salvation…which we don’t do. But couldn’t a valid argument be made that some protestants are, in fact, working to merit reward in heaven, which is a concept fundamentally self-centered, based on personal gain, and not the glory of God?

Just a thought…

By the way,our deeds will be checked out in heaven, some burned(worth nothing), some we will receive crowns for, these crowns we will leave at the Saviors feet. If all our deeds are burned up, it’s like going to a wedding without a gift, who would want to do that. Ralph .

 

[SteveGC]

By the way,our deeds will be checked out in heaven, some burned(worth nothing), some we will receive crowns for, these crowns we will leave at the Saviors feet. If all our deeds are burned up, it’s like going to a wedding without a gift, who would want to do that. Ralph .

We would contend that one without a gift doesn’t have to worry about being embarassed about going to the wedding empty handed…for they’re not GOING to the wedding. Deeds get checked out BEFORE heaven, not just IN heaven.

 

[paul_c]

By the way,our deeds will be checked out in heaven, some burned(worth nothing), some we will receive crowns for, these crowns we will leave at the Saviors feet. If all our deeds are burned up, it’s like going to a wedding without a gift, who would want to do that. Ralph .

What are these crowns you are talking about and what to they do?

 

[ralphy]

We would contend that one without a gift doesn’t have to worry about being embarassed about going to the wedding empty handed…for they’re not GOING to the wedding. Deeds get checked out BEFORE heaven, not just IN heaven.

How about the marriage feast of the Lamb. Ralph

 

[ralphy]

How about the marriage feast of the Lamb. Also who checks the deeds befor heaven. Ralph

 

[Tomster]

We have paid way too much attention to Protestants sensitivity against merit and works and other Catholic teaching for our own good. There is real work and real reward that is personally meritable. What people need to see is that God gives us the spiritual coin so to speak (grace - a free gift as God apportions as He sees fit) to use or lend etc. It if very pleasing to God that we use our grace to help Him with good works. It’s like a father giving a child an allowance to spend and the child turning right around and using that allowance to buy his father a nice robe or new neck-tie. God loves it! It’s all God’s but He gives us the means by which to show our affections and He rewards us with even more grace and more spiritual gifts.

As for Protestants - they work hard to pretend they don’t work but can’t avoid it. The more they deny that works have anything to do with salvation the more they labor to promote their own gospel. It takes a lot of perspiration to remain Protestant in the face of True Catholic Teachings. To live and express oneself in life one must work since our life is a gift with a limited time. How we spend that time is both how we live and how we work. This is why the commandment to Love God and Neighbor is a mandate to live and work for each other and for God. It’s all works - but none of it is meritable without grace.

James

Exactly!

Grace is absolutely necessary for salvation. Sanctifying grace is the higher life of the soul and without it the soul is spiritually dead. Actual grace is given to man for every work in any way conducive to the supernatural life. By means of prevenient grace man prepares himself for justification through sanctifying grace; thus even the very beginning of salvation is attributable to God. Grace, however, does not compel man; he can and must cooperate with it, but he is able to resist it. The cooperation of grace and human liberty is an inscrutable mystery, because it is the working of God in man. But one thing is certain: Our freedom is best guarded and preserved in the hands of Him who created it. “Where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom” (2 Corinthians 3:17). The Church teaches that God gives sufficient grace to all infidels in order that they may believe, and to all sinners that they may be converted.

Once man has been justified through sanctifying grace, he will, with the assistance of actual grace, do GOOD WORKS. “We are created in Christ Jesus in good works, which God has made ready beforehand that we may walk in them” (Ephesians 2:10). Good works result naturally from the new state of in which man has been placed by sanctifying grace. It is self evident that man must prove by deeds the love that he bears in his heart for God; otherwise, it would not be genuine love. Out of this higher life man must bring forth fruits. Since, as our faith teaches, man by justification through Christ becomes intrinsically better, everything he does likewise becomes better. The intrinsic nobility of the soul certainly will reveal itself in one’s correspondingly noble conduct. The works we do as branches of the vine (Christ) and as children of God through sanctifying grace, are regarded by God as those of His Son and will be accepted by Him with reciprocal love. In other words: Good works performed by us in the state of sanctifying grace are rewarded by God with love in return. Mutual love implies a reciprocal give and take. Accordingly good works earn for us an increase of sanctifying grace and eventually life everlasting. Works done without the state of grace, i.e., not by a child of God and member of Christ, are valueless before God and, so far as eternal salvation are concerned, they are futile. This is the sense in which we are to understand these words of Holy Scripture: “[God] will render to every man according to his works. Life eternal indeed He will give those who by patience and good works seek glory and honor and immortality” (Romans 2:6-7); “Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire” (Matthew 7:19). Refer to the Sermon on the Mount.

Lutheranism and, consequently, the OSAS crowd, holding human nature intrinsically corrupted by original sin to the point of the loss of free will, denied the possibilty of merit in man. The Council of Trent condemned this error, asserting both free will and, under the influence of grace, merit.

 

[cazayoux]

Still waiting on a response from Ralphy on this scripture.

Regarding men’s (God-given) authority to forgive sins.

Originally Posted by **cazayoux **

 

[cazayoux]

Still waiting for Ralphy’s response regarding his claim that there are no priests in the new covenant.

Regarding your claim that priests are only an old testament thing and not in the new covenant.

Quote:
Originally Posted by **cazayoux **
Romans 15:13-16
[13] May the God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, so that by the power of the Holy Spirit you may abound in hope.
[14] I myself am satisfied about you, my brethren, that you yourselves are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, and able to instruct one another.
[15] But on some points I have written to you very boldly by way of reminder, because of the grace given me by God
[16] to be a minister of Christ Jesus to the Gentiles in the priestly service of the gospel of God, so that the offering of the Gentiles may be acceptable, sanctified by the Holy Spirit.

…a priestly service of the gospel of God?

1 Pet 2:4-5
[4] Come to him, to that living stone, rejected by men but in God’s sight chosen and precious;
[5] and like living stones be yourselves built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood, to offer spiritual sacrifices acceptable to God through Jesus Christ.

this looks like a priesthood … different than the old covenant, but still a priesthood.
Maybe it’s a changed priesthood!

Rev 1:5-6
[5] and from Jesus Christ the faithful witness, the first-born of the dead, and the ruler of kings on earth. To him who loves us and has freed us from our sins by his blood
[6] and made us a kingdom, ***priests ***to his God and Father, to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.

How does this fit with your claim that the priesthood ended in the old testament?

Originally Posted by **ralphy **

 

[sodak]

And I’m still waiting for his response about knowing which version of the Bible to use, given that there are so many contradictory version out there. But I’m not holding my breath, just providing commentary for folks following this thread either now or sometime in the future.

 

[ralphy]

Still waiting for Ralphy’s response regarding his claim that there are no priests in the new covenant.

First of all, my catholic bible does not say anything about preistly in Romans 15: 16, it says" sanctifying the Gospel of God. as for the other verses, you are correct, it does say priests. If you read Rev 1:5, you will see that these people are saved, “to Him who loved us and washed us from our sin in His own blood”, that is salvation. We then become a royal priesthood, as certain old testament priest could go right into the Holy of Holies, as we who are saved can do also, right to the throne of grace. Ralph

 

[Tomster]

And I am still waiting for Ralphy to explain the difference between Salvation and Redemption.

 

[Tomster]

Ralphy,

And I am still waiting for your response to this.

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=320468&page=8 Post # 119, please.

 

[mlchance]

We then become a royal priesthood…

The Church on the priesthood of all believers:

**1268 **The baptized have become “living stones” to be “built into a spiritual house, to be a holy priesthood.” By Baptism they share in the priesthood of Christ, in his prophetic and royal mission. They are “a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a holy nation, God’s own people, that [they] may declare the wonderful deeds of him who called [them] out of darkness into his marvelous light.” Baptism gives a share in the common priesthood of all believers.

**1546 **Christ, high priest and unique mediator, has made of the Church “a kingdom, priests for his God and Father.” The whole community of believers is, as such, priestly. The faithful exercise their baptismal priesthood through their participation, each according to his own vocation, in Christ’s mission as priest, prophet, and king. Through the sacraments of Baptism and Confirmation the faithful are “consecrated to be . . . a holy priesthood.”

The Church has always taught that all baptized Christians share in Christ’s priestly ministry.

– Mark L. Chance.

 

[ralphy]

Still waiting for Ralphy’s response regarding his claim that there are no priests in the new covenant.

I have only been corresponding in this catholic forum for a short time. My intent in joining this forum was to inject the bible into any conversation that I may have to further the kingdom of Christ,that is to let God do the speaking through His word. I am convinced at this point that Roman catholics value “tradition” taught by the Roman catholic church as being more correct than scripture and therefor tend to follow that teaching. I came out of the Roman catholic church after I started reading the bible and found out what Christ required of me and now I try to live by His word. I will leave you with a few verses that I believe you should read and pray that god will open your eyes. Read Matthew Chap 15:verses 1-9. And may God bless you. Ralph

 

[Saint_Sinner]

2 Peter 1:19-21 (English Standard Version)
19And we have something more sure, the prophetic word, to which you will do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts, 20knowing this first of all, that no prophecy of Scripture comes from someone’s own interpretation. 21For no prophecy was ever produced by the will of man, but men spoke from God as they were carried along by the Holy Spirit.

Amen! I believe in that.

Now where in there does is say “If it is not in scripture, then it came from man.” I just don’t see it. This is talking about prophesy. Are you saying that everything has to be prophesy to be true? That seems a little odd. Or am I misunderstanding you? Please provide a text and your interpretation so that I might understand your thoughts better.

Did I miss your reply. I would very much like to understand where you are coming from. Thanks

 

[Saint_Sinner]

I have only been corresponding in this catholic forum for a short time. My intent in joining this forum was to inject the bible into any conversation that I may have to further the kingdom of Christ,that is to let God do the speaking through His word. I am convinced at this point that Roman catholics value “tradition” taught by the Roman catholic church as being more correct than scripture and therefor tend to follow that teaching. I came out of the Roman catholic church after I started reading the bible and found out what Christ required of me and now I try to live by His word. I will leave you with a few verses that I believe you should read and pray that god will open your eyes. Read Matthew Chap 15:verses 1-9. And may God bless you. Ralph

Please tell me that you aren’t leaving?!? I would like to continue our discussion about what is required of us from the Bible surely this is a useful and edifying topic.

 

[Saint_Sinner]

I will leave you with a few verses that I believe you should read and pray that god will open your eyes. Read Matthew Chap 15:verses 1-9. And may God bless you. Ralph

Thank you for your prayers and blessing.

Matthew 15
1 Then Pharisees and scribes came to Jesus from Jerusalem and said, 2 “Why do your disciples break the tradition of the elders? For they do not wash their hands when they eat.” 3He answered them, "And why do you break the commandment of God for the sake of your tradition? 4For God commanded, ‘Honor your father and your mother,’ and, ‘Whoever reviles father or mother must surely die.’ 5 But you say, ‘If anyone tells his father or his mother, “What you would have gained from me is given to God,” 6 he need not honor his father.’ So for the sake of your tradition you have made void the word of God. 7 You hypocrites! Well did Isaiah prophesy of you, when he said:
8 “‘This people honors me with their lips,
but their heart is far from me;
9 in vain do they worship me,
teaching as doctrines the commandments of men.’”

Amen! I believe in that.

So, Jesus here is talking to th Pharisees and he rebukes them for subverting the commandments of God. He also quotes Isaiah 29:13 concerning the wayward actions of Israel and a coming judgement and healing. Where do you get from this that any and every tradition is to be condemned like this (and not just ‘traditions’ that subvert God’s commandments)?

 

[SteveGC]

I have only been corresponding in this catholic forum for a short time. My intent in joining this forum was to inject the bible into any conversation that I may have to further the kingdom of Christ,that is to let God do the speaking through His word. The Bible is continuously being injected into just about every thread on this forum, ralphy.

Your biblical injections are not novel to the community here. It is merely one of hundreds of non-Catholic privately interpreted injections that Catholics see here all the time. We’re quite used to it. Catholics also inject the bible, but not that of our own interpretation, but that of the Church. You say you do this “to let God do the speaking”, but here’s what you don’t understand…cutting and pasting bible verses into a post doesn’t let God do as much speaking as you give the bible credit to do for Him. Some things are relatively simple to discern, yes; but many many things require accompanying translation and interpretation. It seems you actually DO understand that, but at the same time, when you put YOUR translation and interpretation down next to the verses, you think that this interpretation represents God speaking to us…but it doesn’t do that in the least.

You see, you profess that your brain holds the truths regarding scripture, and when you type out a translation or interpretation, you actually think it’s exactly what God intends for you to do; you believe it IS the truth. You believe this because you think the Holy Spirit comes into you specifically to help you see all truth in the written word. Take a moment of pause, ralphy, and think of the implication of that point-of-view. Do you see how infinitely glorious and powerful a gift like that IS? Contemplate it for a sec. YOU have all the scriptural truths…all of them. You KNOW the whole thing…or atleast, the parts that you DO know, you TRULY know is of God’s intent. If I were in your shoes, I would be quite frightened by this. Seriously, if I had what you claim to have, my goodness…what an awesome responsibility…what a confounding, mysterious power to possess. Can you fathom the ramifications of your efforts to “teach” others about God? You are busying yourself teaching SALVATION OF SOULS!! You are explaining to people exactly what they must do to have eternal life. You’d BETTER be right, no?

But, ralphy, you don’t have to be frightened (I’m sure you’re not anyway)…but you DON’T have this power, my friend. It’s NOT with you…this glorious gift is with the Apostles and their successors, where God intended it to be. The rest of us just need to go to them. And then, when we do…we are free to share in some of this apostolic gift…and we can “teach” and preach to others what has been properly taught to us, not by God directly, but by God indirectly through His men.

God Bless