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ralphy
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He was showing his faith in God by trusting what God told him to do, that is real faith.
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jmcrae
Guest
But apparently Christians can have faith without doing as Christ commanded them to do (go to Mass, go to Confession, etc.)
How does that work?
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cazayoux
Guest
hehehe … if once saved, always saved why all those letters in the new testament to people that were already Christians.Yes, when Abraham received the knowledge that there is one God, the Creator of all that is seen and unseen, he said to himself, “Hey, that’s really cool!” and then rolled over and went back to sleep, secure that he was “once saved, always saved.” (Genesis 15:1-21, 17:1-22)
Oh, wait …
If ‘if once saved, always saved’ were true, the letters would be much shorter.
The Only Letter of OSAS Paul to the Corinthians
[1] Paul, called by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus, and our brother Sos’thenes,
[2] To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those sanctified in Christ Jesus, called to be saints together with all those who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, both their Lord and ours:
[3] Y’all are good.
michel
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paul_c
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Yes, but his faith wasn’t obvious or meaningful until he actually took action to demonstrate it. Prior to that, it was just empty words.
In every case in his life, he demonstrated his faith with his actions. He left his homeland when God asked him to. He had sexual relations with Sarah, who was thought sterile, to produce a son and he actually was in the process of sacrificing that son to please God.
Can you refute any of this, Ralph?
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cazayoux
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Shannon9791
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I don’t know where you learned your grammar, but where I come from, showing is a verb, and verbs are things that are done. So really, you just contradicted yourself by saying he was saved by his faith alone, but he had to do something to show his faith. Which is it Ralphy? You can’t be saved by faith alone if you have to do something, and you just said Abraham had to do 2 different things to be saved. He had to show his faith and he had to trust in God. Both good old fashioned verbs.
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CrackerJackie
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I am one of the “lurkers” to this interminable thread. I have learned much about my faith in reading the posts. Other things that I knew have been explained resulting in a better understanding of why I believe what I believe about the faith.
A conclusion I have reached from this and another place where ralphy posted, he is sure he is right and will cherry-pick to support his views. He rarely answers straight forward questions, rarely provides any supporting documentation, and wants the Catholics on here to do his homework for him. When they CC position, as handed down from Jesus (I know I didn’t articulate that very well:shrug
, is given, he discounts it and twists it to fit with his interpretation of the Bible. I admire you all for sticking with this! You have more patience than I!
A conclusion I have reached from this and another place where ralphy posted, he is sure he is right and will cherry-pick to support his views. He rarely answers straight forward questions, rarely provides any supporting documentation, and wants the Catholics on here to do his homework for him. When they CC position, as handed down from Jesus (I know I didn’t articulate that very well:shrug
, is given, he discounts it and twists it to fit with his interpretation of the Bible. I admire you all for sticking with this! You have more patience than I!
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CentralFLJames
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VERY GOOD RALPHY! That is a living faith - a DEMONSTRABLE faith - a faith in action - A faith with real works!!!
Now can you accept your very own words here that faith requires action to ratify that it is real faith and not dead faith?
You are only a step away from the truth here - take that leap of faith now Ralphy and start flying and leaving your old heretical life far far below you and soar…
James
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twb1621
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Does your Bible have these verses Ralphy? Every one of them refers to the importance of good works with Faith.
Matthew CH 6: 2 “When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites 2 do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. 3 But when you give alms, do not let your left hand know what your right is doing, 4 so that your almsgiving may be secret. And your Father who sees in secret will repay you.
“17 But when you fast, anoint your head and wash your face, 18 so that you may not appear to be fasting, except to your Father who is hidden. And your Father who sees what is hidden will repay you.”
Matthew CH 5: 14 “You are the light of the world. A city set on a mountain cannot be hidden. 15 Nor do they light a lamp and then put it under a bushel basket; it is set on a lampstand, where it gives light to all in the house. 16 Just so, your light must shine before others, that they may see your good deeds and glorify your heavenly Father.”
Matthew CH 7: 15 9 "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep’s clothing, but underneath are ravenous wolves. 16 By their fruits you will know them. Do people pick grapes from thornbushes, or figs from thistles? 17 Just so, every good tree bears good fruit, and a rotten tree bears bad fruit. 18 A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a rotten tree bear good fruit. 19 Every tree that does not bear good fruit will be cut down and thrown into the fire. 20 So by their fruits you will know them.”
Matthew CH 23: “8 6 As for you, do not be called ‘Rabbi.’ You have but one teacher, and you are all brothers. 9 Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven. 10 Do not be called ‘Master’; you have but one master, the Messiah. 11 The greatest among you must be your servant.”
John CH 14: 12 “Amen, amen, I say to you, whoever believes in me will do the works that I do, and will do greater ones than these, because I am going to the Father.”
Acts CH 26: 17 “I shall deliver you from this people and from the Gentiles to whom I send you, 18 to open their eyes 5 that they may turn from darkness to light and from the power of Satan to God, so that they may obtain forgiveness of sins and an inheritance among those who have been consecrated by faith in me.’ 19 "And so, King Agrippa, I was not disobedient to the heavenly vision. 20 On the contrary, first to those in Damascus and in Jerusalem and throughout the whole country of Judea, and then to the Gentiles, I preached the need to repent and turn to God, and to do works giving evidence of repentance.”
Romans CH 2: 3 Do you suppose, then, you who judge those who engage in such things and yet do them yourself, that you will escape the judgment of God? 4 Or do you hold his priceless kindness, forbearance, and patience in low esteem, unaware that the kindness of God would lead you to repentance? 5 By your stubbornness and impenitent heart, you are storing up wrath for yourself for the day of wrath and revelation of the just judgment of God, 6 who will repay everyone according to his works: 3 7 eternal life to those who seek glory, honor, and immortality through perseverance in good works, 8 but wrath and fury to those who selfishly disobey the truth and obey wickedness.”
You may want to study this one very closely Ralphy.
Matthew CH 25: 31 14 “When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit upon his glorious throne, 32 and all the nations 15 will be assembled before him. And he will separate them one from another, as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33 He will place the sheep on his right and the goats on his left. 34 Then the king will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father. Inherit the kingdom repared for you from the foundation of the world. 35 For I was hungry and you gave me food, I was thirsty and you gave me drink, a stranger and you welcomed me, 36 naked and you clothed me, ill and you cared for me, in prison and you visited me.’ 37 Then the righteous 16 will answer him and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you drink? 38 When did we see you a stranger and welcome you, or naked and clothe you? 39 When did we see you ill or in prison, and visit you?’ 40 And the king will say to them in reply, ‘Amen, I say to you, whatever you did for one of these least brothers of mine, you did for me.’ 41 17 Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you accursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42 For I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink, 43 a stranger and you gave me no welcome, naked and you gave me no clothing, ill and in prison, and you did not care for me.’ 44 18 Then they will answer and say, ‘Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or ill or in prison, and not minister to your needs?’ 45 He will answer them, ‘Amen, I say to you, what you did not do for one of these least ones, you did not do for me.’ 46 And these will go off to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life.”
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benedicta00
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but on whose authority do you interpret it and teach it to others?
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benedicta00
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Correction, your very personal, subjective, anti Catholic interpretation of the Word of God.
and i would have to agree. Catholicism is NOT in accord with your **fallible **erroneous scripture interpretations.
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benedicta00
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sodak
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For someone who claims to find all their knowledge in the Bible, please give chapter and verse explaining this in detail. I can’t find this in any of my many Bibles. Without any interpretation, please, as we all know, the Bible is crystal clear in all areas, and doesn’t need any teaching authority to explain it. So I want to see for myself where it explains which judgement is for whom.
Like the above?
You are correct. At this point, I’m no longer talking to him, but posting for the benefit of lurkers, so they can see how easy it is to find his heresies.
You still haven’t answered my question about which Bible is the correct one. There are many different (and contradictory) versions in print. Which one is correct, and how do we know that?
You must not have read the whole Bible…
But repeating it incorrectly and out of context. Satan did the same thing when he was tempting Jesus. He knows the word of God also, but perverts it to evil.
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fbl9
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DschKnight:thumbsup:Ralphy please tell us what is the point of repenting of one’s sins after they are “saved”?
Just a little side note about the discussion regarding Abraham being in heaven…He didn’t get there until after Christ died on the cross,for heaven was closed to mankind prior to that.
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Tomster
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Since it is Ralphy’s aim to convert Catholics to his own brand Fundamentalism on this message board, I have another question for him which I suspect he will never address.
Ralphy, I am going to give you two simple sentences. One is true, the other is false. Please choose the one you believe to be true. All you have to do is answer either “a” or “b”.
a. Jesus is a human person
b. Jesus is not a human person.
These are straight forward statements. If you care to give the reasons why you chose either “a” or “b” that would be a plus.
Thank you very much!
Ralphy, I am going to give you two simple sentences. One is true, the other is false. Please choose the one you believe to be true. All you have to do is answer either “a” or “b”.
a. Jesus is a human person
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orThese are straight forward statements. If you care to give the reasons why you chose either “a” or “b” that would be a plus.
Thank you very much!
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benedicta00
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welcome to the world of Evangelicalism, Protestantism, Fundamentalism… they are filled and with false dichotomies .
I can’t imagine a faith that literally is built on false dilemmas where truth is pitted against itself and one is forced to choose which truth they will embrace and which truth they will sacrifice for the sake of denying Catholicism.
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Tomster
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I agree with you sir. Love in fact does conquer all. So let’s love him by showing him the truth. When trying to get a handle on all of Ralphy’s non-answers and ambiguity it may do some good for all of us to understand where he really is coming from. I’ll let Karl Keating explain.
"Whatever forces might have steered a man to fundamentalism in the first place - and it must be granted that emotional factors play a part, as they do in most conversions, no matter the direction - he remains a fundamentalist for DOCTRINAL REASONS (emph. mine). He might have left his previous church out of anger or frustration, and he might have been attracted to the fundamentalist congregation down the road because the pastor is a fine preacher or because the church members befriended him.
These emotional pushes and pulls are short-lived, and in most cases they merely help the convert do what he wanted to do anyway. He could have found ministers as eloquent or congregants as kind in one of the mainline Protestant churches or even in some eccentric cult, but, as important as those factors might be, they were not the reasons he converted. His conversion had to do with DOCTRINES (again, emph. mine). The doctrines to which he adheres are not the ones he discovered for himself, furtively reading the Bible late at night while his wife and child slept. The doctrines he was taught first (translated: Protestant oral tradition, my insertion here), and the Bible has been used to justify them." - “Catholicism and Fundamentalism” pps. 25 and 26
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Shannon9791
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Of all the really really good things you’ve said and quoted over the course of this thread, I think this has to go down as the best. Good quote, bro!
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ralphy
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Did you notice that he did all this after he trusted christ. He was simply showing his faith by his actions. Ralph
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agbasinger
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How do you know that the Bible is God’s word?
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