Ralphy's Questions for Catholics

[paul_c]

There are so many things about the Roman catholic church that are not right, where do I start. They call the Pope “Holy Father” and that he is infallible. Do yo really believe that a human sinner could be called “Holy”, only God is Holy. Only God is infallible. Do you really believe that the Roman catholic church teaching supersedes the Bible (the word of God). Do you believe that a Roman catholic priest can (somehow) change a piece of bread and some wine into the body and blood of Christ. Do you believe that as the catholics say "The last supper was a real sacrifice in which Christ’s blood was poured out for our sins in the cup ,when the last supper was a Passover meal. Christ’s blood was poured out for our sins at the cross (1 Peter 2:24). Just one more out of many, the Roman catholic church says “the sacrificial work of redemption is continually carried out through the sacrifice of the mass”. The Bible says "the sacrificial work of redemption was finished when Christ gave His life for us on the cross (Eph 1:7; Heb 1:3) The Roman catholic church relys heavily on “tradition” or “their” church teaching and in most cases causes the Bible to have very little effect. I will say again as I have said befor, in the last days our judgement will come from the “Bible” and not from tradition or other teachings. Make sure that you are standing on the “word of God”, the only solid ground. Ralph

Ralphy, there are things on earth that are Holy and sacred. You just don’t recognize them. They do not have the full holiness of God, obviously

The Church’s teaching never supersedes the Bible. In fact, the bible is one of the tools the Church uses to teach. You will find no discrepancy between Catholic teaching and the bible. Any discrepancy you recognize is actually generated by your errant interpretation of the Bible.

And yes, I do believe that the priest can turn the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus. So did Jesus. Weren’t those the exact words he used at the last supper?

As for Tradition vs the Bible, its a false dichotomy. The Bible is part of tradition. and everything in the bible is consistent with it. But there is more to the faith than was written in the Bible.

 

[ralphy]

Ralphy, there are things on earth that are Holy and sacred. You just don’t recognize them. They do not have the full holiness of God, obviously

The Church’s teaching never supersedes the Bible. In fact, the bible is one of the tools the Church uses to teach. You will find no discrepancy between Catholic teaching and the bible. Any discrepancy you recognize is actually generated by your errant interpretation of the Bible.

And yes, I do believe that the priest can turn the bread and wine into the body and blood of Jesus. So did Jesus. Weren’t those the exact words he used at the last supper?

As for Tradition vs the Bible, its a false dichotomy. The Bible is part of tradition. and everything in the bible is consistent with it. But there is more to the faith than was written in the Bible.

Jesus also said “I am the vine and you are the branches”,(weren’t these Jesus"s exact words), so in your interpretation I will assume that Jesus is a tree. I pointed out discrepancy to you between the Roman catholic church and the Bible but you ignored it. Who gave the priest the power to perform miracles? As for the last supper, Jesus said that this was a memorial, (do this in memory of Me). If it was His body and blood ,what part of Him was it and where did the blood come from. He had not yet gone to the cross. Christ is not received through a wafer, He is received through faith (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God),and by turning to Him and receiving Him by repentence, trusting in the finished work on the cross of Calvary and being covered by His blood. Eph 2:8,9 will show you how to be saved. Ralph

 

[judechild]

Who gave the priest the power to perform miracles?

Jesus.

 

[diggerdomer]

Jesus.

and the Church

 

[quasimodo]

You must be reading and believing those mass mailing marketing materials coming out of the mega-Church’s Shell.

Here, read what your own people are saying:
The Coming Evangelical Collapse (Michael Spencer, Christian Science Monitor March 10, 2009 edition)

James

James, I’m a Catholic and I find your recent posts counter productive at best … especially this:

Make no mistake about it - it has been severed and is dieing.

You need to come into The Catholic Church before its tossed into the fire.

You are in danger of doing more harm than good and achieving the opposite of your intentions.

 

[CentralFLJames]

James, I’m a Catholic and I find your recent posts counter productive at best … especially this:

You are in danger of doing more harm than good and achieving the opposite of your intentions.

Thanks for your opinion quasimodo - but that is an old comment made over 200 posts ago and we have moved way past that and are in the latter innings of the thread and in a much different phase and dynamic now. Are you caught up and current with this thread or trying to catch up and responding as you go to comments made long ago? If caught up with the discussion why bring that all the way forward here publicly at this point in time when you can yourself be more productive if you just PM me if have issues?

If you must know, at the time the comment was made it was done in stride with the tenor and tone of the negative comments made against the Catholic church. It was intended to be preemptive and to provoke thought and discourage another round of attacks. Just so you know - I don’t believe in a “soft and delicate” powder-puff apologetic approach for every sort of personality; certainly not for a person obstinate in their beliefs nor a hard anti-Catholic. I believe in a stress-adaptation approach that gets these kind out of their comfort zones and out of “the gentleman’s game of debate” that never changes anything. The idea is to force an attacker to confront the gravity and stakes of the matter eye to eye. This is not a game or a hobby to me as it is to some.

At any rate I do not hold the same opinion as you do here and think you are in equal danger of upsetting the change-dynamic from a high energy level into a Punch-and-Judy sort of interaction. The latter level is uninspiring and incapable of overpowering committed anti-Catholics but might be suitable for somone on the fence (but I already probed for that latter case early on and proved that is not the case here). I am agile. I choose the best bat for the style of pitching I am batting against. You might do better yourself to discern the kinds of personalities and styles of those you are up against and have more than one club in the bag so to speak; and also get a keener sense of what inning/phase we are currently in.

James

 

[tmac1956]

If you look up Romans Chap 10:17, you will see where faith comes from, so consequently new born children can not have faith. Mark 10:13-16 is refering to the mind set and the type of trust a little child has (total trust and acceptance),it does not mean that as adults we must become little children. From what I understand from scripture,when children reach the age of reason (that is when they understand what is said to them, and are able to reason for themselves),then they must decide to follow Christ or not to follow Him. If you would like to see more on the importance ,please read Rom 3:21-31. Ralph

ralphy:
If we are saved by faith alone, and little children cannot have faith, are they destined for hell if they die during their childhood?

 

[paul_c]

Jesus also said “I am the vine and you are the branches”,(weren’t these Jesus"s exact words), so in your interpretation I will assume that Jesus is a tree. I pointed out discrepancy to you between the Roman catholic church and the Bible but you ignored it. Who gave the priest the power to perform miracles? As for the last supper, Jesus said that this was a memorial, (do this in memory of Me). If it was His body and blood ,what part of Him was it and where did the blood come from. He had not yet gone to the cross. Christ is not received through a wafer, He is received through faith (faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God),and by turning to Him and receiving Him by repentence, trusting in the finished work on the cross of Calvary and being covered by His blood. Eph 2:8,9 will show you how to be saved. Ralph

Ralph, No, I recognize the vine discussion as a metaphor as does the Catholic Church.

At the last supper, this was the discussion according to Matt 26:26-28

While they were eating, Jesus took bread, said the blessing, broke it, and giving it to his disciples said, “Take and eat; this is my body.” Then he took a cup, gave thanks, 16 and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you, for this is my blood of the covenant, which will be shed on behalf of many for the forgiveness of sins.

This dovetails with the discourse in John 6: 53-58
Jesus said to them, “Amen, amen, I say to you, unless you eat the flesh of the Son of Man and drink his blood, you do not have life within you. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life, and I will raise him on the last day. For my flesh is true food, and my blood is true drink. Whoever eats my flesh and drinks my blood remains in me and I in him. Just as the living Father sent me and I have life because of the Father, so also the one who feeds on me will have life because of me. This is the bread that came down from heaven. Unlike your ancestors who ate and still died, whoever eats this bread will live forever.”

If you remember, Like you, most of Jesus disciples could not understand this either, and left. It was only Peter and the Apostles who recognized that he had the words that saved and from them, Jesus started his church, the Catholic Church.

We believe that Jesus is Truly present in the Eucharist. While you can not ascertain the physical changes in the bread and wine, its spiritual state is changed to the body and blood of Christ and when we eat this spiritual food, we are filled with grace as we become one with Christ. We believe this because Christ told it was true and he can not lie.

And yes, the first Eucharist was celebrated at the last supper, before Jesus actually shed his blood. But his blood was still sacred as the blood of the covenant.

And be careful not to speak blasphemously against the eucharist. Just because you think you can second guess the words of Christ, doesn’t mean you can change the truth of his words.

 

[ralphy]

ralphy:
If we are saved by faith alone, and little children cannot have faith, are they destined for hell if they die during their childhood?

Everyone is destined for Hell. The only way we can escape Hell is to trust in Christ for our salvation. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Rom 3:23 Ralph

 

[paul_c]

Everyone is destined for Hell. The only way we can escape Hell is to trust in Christ for our salvation. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Rom 3:23 Ralph

No one is predestined for Hell. Why would God make people just to condemn them. Indeed, the Catholic chuch teaches that no one is predestined to Hell. If we end up in Hell, it is because we failed to be baptized into his church or if we were baptized we failed to stay in the state of grace by doing God’s will or by being subsequently reconciled through sacramental confession. And this is by our own choice.

 

[CentralFLJames]

Everyone is destined for Hell. The only way we can escape Hell is to trust in Christ for our salvation. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Rom 3:23 Ralph

Ralph, you need to change pastors and churches. Someone is putting this stuff in your head and causing you anxiety. God predestines no one to hell.

Time to come home Ralph: catholicscomehome.org/

Get some peace, get a fresh and healthy outlook and get on with life. There’s lot of good stuff yet to come…

James

 

[fbl9]

Everyone is destined for Hell. The only way we can escape Hell is to trust in Christ for our salvation. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Rom 3:23 Ralph

at least the we should look on the upside:ralphy beleives in original sin.

 

[sodak]

Everyone is destined for Hell. The only way we can escape Hell is to trust in Christ for our salvation. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Rom 3:23 Ralph

I don’t believe this for an instant. A loving God would not create living creatures for the sole purpose of condemning them into Hell, except for the lucky few that “got away”. That doesn’t make any sense at all…

 

[SteveGC]

Everyone is destined for Hell. The only way we can escape Hell is to trust in Christ for our salvation. “For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Rom 3:23 Ralph

In a way, I guess this is true. As long as by ‘destined’ you don’t mean “predestined”. Perhaps you meant to say, ‘unless we trust in Christ for our salvation, we are all destined for Hell’? That’s somewhat agreeable, except it limits the Mercy of God, which is a mystery we should not profess we are privy to.

But given the fact that you said this in response to a question about children before the age of reason, I would certainly disagree with your comment. In fact, I’m surprised that you don’t believe in baptism considering the alternative is to believe that all kids who pass away under the age of 7 or 8 are in Hell. So, Christianity is only a valid religion after the age of reason? It doesn’t really begin until then? Are the severely mentally handicapped in Hell too, ralphy?

 

[jmcrae]

Everyone is destined for Hell.

Correct. This is due to Adam’s sin. The “default programming” if you will, or the “normal setting” for the human race is Hell.

The only way we can escape Hell is to trust in Christ for our salvation.

Not quite correct. The only way we can escape Hell is to enter into God’s Covenant - which in our own times is the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

You will remember that entry into the Old Covenant was comprised of three ritual events - circumcision at the age of 8 days, bar mitzvah, in which the child completes his initiation into the faith, and participation every year in the Passover supper, eating the meat of the Lamb of God, which was sacrificed each year at 3:00 pm on a Friday, to be eaten the following Saturday.

Entry into the New Covenant also entails participation in ritual events (which, under the New Covenant, are known as Sacraments) - Baptism, as early as possible (which corresponds to circumcision), Confirmation at the age of reason (which corresponds somewhat to the bar mitzvah), and Holy Communion, which is our New Covenant Passover, when we eat the flesh of our New Covenant Lamb of God, which is Jesus.

“For all have sinned and come short of the glory of God” Rom 3:23

Exactly.

 

[ralphy]

In a way, I guess this is true. As long as by ‘destined’ you don’t mean “predestined”. Perhaps you meant to say, ‘unless we trust in Christ for our salvation, we are all destined for Hell’? That’s somewhat agreeable, except it limits the Mercy of God, which is a mystery we should not profess we are privy to.

But given the fact that you said this in response to a question about children before the age of reason, I would certainly disagree with your comment. In fact, I’m surprised that you don’t believe in baptism considering the alternative is to believe that all kids who pass away under the age of 7 or 8 are in Hell. So, Christianity is only a valid religion after the age of reason? It doesn’t really begin until then? Are the severely mentally handicapped in Hell too, ralphy?

I did say we are destined for Hell, (not predestined). Ever since Adam sinned, this is the way it is. But Christ has provided a way for us to go to heaven when He died on the cross of Calvary and shed His blood to take away our sins. If you read my earlier email you would have seen that I said that as far as I can understand all children who pass away befor the age of reason go to heaven. As far as the mentally handicapped are concern (and I have a grandson like that) they probably never reach the age of reason, so they will go to heaven. When a person is able to discern for themselves, they will have to make a decision to follow Christ or not. Ralph

 

[jmcrae]

I did say we are destined for Hell, (not predestined). Ever since Adam sinned, this is the way it is. But Christ has provided a way for us to go to heaven when He died on the cross of Calvary and shed His blood to take away our sins. If you read my earlier email you would have seen that I said that as far as I can understand all children who pass away befor the age of reason go to heaven.

So, you can’t inherit the sin of Adam unless you have the use of reason? (And then you suddenly inherit it at the age of seven or eight, or whatever?)

 

[ralphy]

So, you can’t inherit the sin of Adam unless you have the use of reason? (And then you suddenly inherit it at the age of seven or eight, or whatever?)

I was conceived in sin as you were, that is original sin. I said that at the “age of reason”, one must decide to accept or reject Christ as Savior. Ralph

 

[ralphy]

Correct. This is due to Adam’s sin. The “default programming” if you will, or the “normal setting” for the human race is Hell.

Not quite correct. The only way we can escape Hell is to enter into God’s Covenant - which in our own times is the New Covenant of Jesus Christ.

You will remember that entry into the Old Covenant was comprised of three ritual events - circumcision at the age of 8 days, bar mitzvah, in which the child completes his initiation into the faith, and participation every year in the Passover supper, eating the meat of the Lamb of God, which was sacrificed each year at 3:00 pm on a Friday, to be eaten the following Saturday.

Entry into the New Covenant also entails participation in ritual events (which, under the New Covenant, are known as Sacraments) - Baptism, as early as possible (which corresponds to circumcision), Confirmation at the age of reason (which corresponds somewhat to the bar mitzvah), and Holy Communion, which is our New Covenant Passover, when we eat the flesh of our New Covenant Lamb of God, which is Jesus.

Exactly.

Where did you get this “eating the meat of the Lamb of God,which was sacrificed each year at 3 :00 pm on friday,to be eaten the following saturday”. Do you know what the passover represents? Ralph

 

[Saint_Sinner]

There are so many things about the Roman catholic church that are not right, where do I start.

I agree there are too many to go over all at one time. So, since I’m easily distracted why don’t we pick one at a time. Either the ones you mentioned in your previous posts or one of these. I just can’t blanket discuss several different issues simultaneously though. You pick. Where do we start?