Ramadan

[AlessandraRose]

Since my flesh is still a Muslim, I’m still fasting with my Muslim family, however, if there are special rituals in Catholicism for fasting that I can incorporate, then please point them to me.

What do you mean by that? You are still a muslim?

 

[BeeSweet]

Pregnant women dont fast.

regards,

A school mate of mine who is pregnant is practicing the Ramadan fast.

 

[dzheremi]

This experience is only compounded by the fact that the practice of fasting is, for all practical purposes, a dead one amongst Latin Catholics in America…

I don’t mean to discount your personal experience, but this is alien to my own. I fast during Lent, as I am required to do, and many others that I know (admittedly not as many as there should be) do as well. My father, who grew up as a Roman Catholic prior to Vatican II, tells me that as a child in the 1950s and early 1960s his family observed the abstinence from all meat during Fridays of regular time, too (this detail is something I think has been more or less abandoned, I agree; I was told in RCIA that it is actually not required!).

 

[Sister_Amy]

Most Christians simply don’t know how Muslims fast at all. I am not bashing them, but their concept of fasting is not fasting at all. They are just reversing their eating cycle from day to night. At night, they eat like crazy so they would stay full during the fasting period. As a result, they become hypoglycemic. Symptoms like Shakiness, anxiety, nervousness, tremor, and dilated pupils are common. Don’t expect to get anything done during Ramadan. They are very lethargic to do anything.

Another thing that you don’t hear from Muslims is that some Muslims especially the Arabs gain weight during Ramadan. InJesus and others from Middle East can attest to that. If you gain weight during fasting, something ain’t right.

Contrary to what Muslims say on TV, Ramadan isn’t that wonderful.

It’s kind of a misconception that Ramadan is only about fasting. It’s well-known that some Muslims have totally missed the point of fasting and they take the month of work and don’t do anything but sit around and then pig out at fast-breaking.

But that’s wrong–even to Muslims, that’s wrong.

Most Muslims in the West like myself have to keep the same busy schedule–only without food or drink during the day. So that means instead of getting a nice cushy sleep at night I have to get up at 4:45am to eat a small meal before the fasting begins. And then I am up after that to pray and read Qur’an. Sometimes I might get in a quick nap before going to work or school. And then I have the same course loads and work loads as non-Muslims–classwork, homework, I have to pay attention and get my work done all during the day while fasting. And then once time comes to break the fast I only get a small meal, eating a lot is too heavy and very uncomfortable–because after that I go to the mosque to pray for 1-2 hours more listening to the Qur’an recited.

Reversing my sleep schedule? Not hardly! I have to get up earlier, and I go to bed later… so even though so Muslims do what you described that certainly isn’t the appropriate way. And at night I’m sleeping as much as I can (between 11:30-4) and can’t just eat all the time. During the day I have school, work, homework, and prayers. And you better believe by the time afternoon starts rolling around, it ain’t easy.

 

[Sister_Amy]

We Catholics have more fasting days than the Muslims. There is nothing admirable about the Muslim fasting. Go ahead, break fast with a Muslim and watch how they much they can swallow in one go. Gluttony is a sin, is it not?

The Prophet Muhammad (saaws) encouraged the Muslims to break their fast by eating a few dates, and drinking some water.

When the time for fast-breaking (iftar) comes, the Muslims will supplicate to God, take some dates and water, and then go pray.

My stomach always shrinks in Ramadan and I end up losing about 10 pounds by the end. I’m not sure where people are going to see enough food even to be a glutton. I usually just get some soup, a salad, and a little bit of meat as a meal–seldom enough to even “fill” my stomach.

And Muslims are told not to fill their stomachs, even in Ramadan–or if they have to fill it, then fill 1/3 with food, 1/3 with water, and 1/3 with air.

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

… I wonder how many premature births occur during Ramadan due to dehydrated pregnant women .

don’t worry

kids , pregnant women , old , sick , travellers don’t have to fast . Sick , pregnant women will fast later when they are ok . Those who are unable to fast may feed a poor person twice .

God says in Quran:

Allah intends every facility for you;

He does not want to put to difficulties.

(He wants you) to complete the prescribed period, and to glorify Him in that He has guided you; and perchance ye shall be grateful.

chpater 2 , verse 185

 

[morning_star777]

Since my flesh is still a Muslim, I’m still fasting with my Muslim family, however, if there are special rituals in Catholicism for fasting that I can incorporate, then please point them to me.

Well brother,so you are fasting in Ramadan?but i am not fasting but i am Amazed that i am not in trouble from my muslim family because everybody think me as an atheist(though I became christian mentaly and secretly).so it is my plus point.actually i never did it because i feel very sick without water.but it is the 2nd cause.the first cause is i was agnostic and now a christian.Btw,i hope soon ur flesh will be christian like ur soul.God bless you.

 

[cathopologist]

My stomach always shrinks in Ramadan and I end up losing about 10 pounds by the end. I’m not sure where people are going to see enough food even to be a glutton. I usually just get some soup, a salad, and a little bit of meat as a meal–seldom enough to even “fill” my stomach.

Sister Amy, gluttony is a very common scene in Singapore when Muslims break fast.

And Muslims are told not to fill their stomachs, even in Ramadan–or if they have to fill it, then fill 1/3 with food, 1/3 with water, and 1/3 with air.

Yes, this is supposed to be the correct way to fast. But how many Muslims you know actually take heed of that rule? Silly question, isn’t it? I should expect you saying, “ALL Muslims”.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Sister Amy, gluttony is a very common scene in Singapore when Muslims break fast.

So why don’t you just deal with that small problem instead of accusing Muslims everywhere else of a heinous sin? Most Muslims I know rarely eat more at an iftaar in Ramadan than at any other occasion in the year. And usually, less.

Yes, this is supposed to be the correct way to fast. But how many Muslims you know actually take heed of that rule? Silly question, isn’t it? I should expect you saying, “ALL Muslims”.

It’s the correct way to fast, so why don’t you say that some Muslims aren’t adhering properly to their own teachings, rather than suggest that the Islam is bad?

Can you agree that if Muslims properly followed Islam they wouldn’t be sinful?

 

[cathopologist]

So why don’t you just deal with that small problem instead of accusing Muslims everywhere else of a heinous sin? Most Muslims I know rarely eat more at an iftaar in Ramadan than at any other occasion in the year. And usually, less.

Errm, i wasn’t accusing Muslims everywhere? I believe i did mention Singapore. Are you feeling insecure?

It’s the correct way to fast, so why don’t you say that some Muslims aren’t adhering properly to their own teachings, rather than suggest that the Islam is bad?

Can you agree that if Muslims properly followed Islam they wouldn’t be sinful?

Sorry, i don’t find Islam “innocent”. But i do think it contains some truth and has some good values. I believe Muslims can be good but i feel Islam bogs them down due to its erroneous claims.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Here’s what you said on page 1:

B]There is nothing admirable about the Muslim fasting. Go ahead, break fast with a Muslim and watch how they much they can swallow in one go. Gluttony is a sin, is it not?

Muslims (especially in America as i have been informed), use Ramadan as a propaganda tool to show the naive non-Muslim about the “peaceful” side of their religion.

I say, go for it. Fast with them and watch gluttony in action.

Ouch. On top of which you said Catholics have more days of fasting. But Catholics do not fast the way Muslims do. Muslims abstain from food and drink during the day, and while there are only 29-30 mandatory days, there are also 11 major optional days, plus it’s recommended to add 6 more after Ramadan in Shawwal and then also to fast either 3 days out of each (lunar) month or twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays.

 

[cathopologist]

Here’s what you said on page 1:

B]There is nothing admirable about the Muslim fasting. Go ahead, break fast with a Muslim and watch how they much they can swallow in one go. Gluttony is a sin, is it not?

Muslims (especially in America as i have been informed), use Ramadan as a propaganda tool to show the naive non-Muslim about the “peaceful” side of their religion.

I say, go for it. Fast with them and watch gluttony in action.

Ouch. On top of which you said Catholics have more days of fasting. But Catholics do not fast the way Muslims do. Muslims abstain from food and drink during the day, and while there are only 29-30 mandatory days, there are also 11 major optional days, plus it’s recommended to add 6 more after Ramadan in Shawwal and then also to fast either 3 days out of each (lunar) month or twice a week on Mondays and Thursdays.
Catholics fast up to 40 days every year (during Lent). We also fast weekly (Friday) and fast for at least 3 hours before Mass and receiving Communion (some fast from midnight until Mass the next day) - and that’s not counting daily church-goers, who practically fast everyday for a few hours.

Extreme fasting, such as the Muslims practice can be physically harmful. It’s quite common to see the A&E packed with alot more (Muslim) patients during Ramadan. What good will it bring to the person who fasts this way? Even the homeless eat something everyday.

Also, there are Muslims who break fast midway (either to smoke or drink a glass of water) when no other Muslim friend, colleague or relative is looking. So its not as hyped as it looks or sounds.

 

[Sister_Amy]

Catholics fast up to 40 days every year (during Lent). We also fast weekly (Friday) and fast for at least 3 hours before Mass and receiving Communion (some fast from midnight until Mass the next day) - and that’s not counting daily church-goers, who practically fast everyday for a few hours.

Fast for a few hours? Not eating or drinking for a few hours isn’t really a fast. LOL.

Extreme fasting, such as the Muslims practice can be physically harmful. It’s quite common to see the A&E packed with alot more (Muslim) patients during Ramadan. What good will it bring to the person who fasts this way? Even the homeless eat something everyday.

Extreme fasting? 16-18 hours at most is extreme? So basically your fast, as a Catholic, isn’t really any kind of fasting at all if you don’t have to deny yourself.

Muslims can eat and drink every night–just not during the day. And it’s not just about deprivation.

Also, there are Muslims who break fast midway (either to smoke or drink a glass of water) when no other Muslim friend, colleague or relative is looking. So its not as hyped as it looks or sounds.

Really? Or do you just think so? That all invalidates the fast, and a person has to make it up. This is like saying not all Muslims pray. Not all Catholics go to mass. Seriously. This isn’t even worth discussing.

 

[cathopologist]

Fast for a few hours? Not eating or drinking for a few hours isn’t really a fast. LOL.

Better fasting a few hours everyday than bowing down 5 times a day and eating 6 meals a day.

Extreme fasting? 16-18 hours at most is extreme? So basically your fast, as a Catholic, isn’t really any kind of fasting at all if you don’t have to deny yourself.

Not swallowing your own saliva is extreme. Not drinking some water after a rigorous flash-over exercise is extreme, when the heat alone is enough to completely dehydrate your body in seconds. I was a fire-fighter before and worked and trained with Muslim colleagues during the month of Ramadan. I know a few have died from it.

Muslims can eat and drink every night–just not during the day. And it’s not just about deprivation.

You think i don’t know that? I was talking about breaking fast midway during the day and sneaking somewhere so other Muslims don’t see them breaking their obligations.

Really? Or do you just think so? That all invalidates the fast, and a person has to make it up. This is like saying not all Muslims pray. Not all Catholics go to mass. Seriously. This isn’t even worth discussing.

Oh please. Muslims do it here all the time. Yet when talking about their religious beliefs or how they felt about the cartoon depictions of Mohammad, they say the Christians have insulted “my religion - Islam”. Invalidates their fast? Not when they think they can “make it up for it”- And they almost never make up for it. Even hypocrites know when to draw the line.

 

[R_not]

So why don’t you just deal with that small problem instead of accusing Muslims everywhere else of a heinous sin? Most Muslims I know rarely eat more at an iftaar in Ramadan than at any other occasion in the year. And usually, less.

It’s the correct way to fast, so why don’t you say that some Muslims aren’t adhering properly to their own teachings, rather than suggest that the Islam is bad?

Can you agree that if Muslims properly followed Islam they wouldn’t be sinful?

You need to not mislead anyone in what islam defines as a sin. It is not doing shirk and doing what is halal and not doing haram. And a sin does not include deceiving us (which not defining what a muslim considers a sin is deceiving us), or doing whatever they want to infidels (stealing from, torturing, killing, etc). Our ideas of sin are so different that is why they ‘sort of forget’ to mention those differences.

Anyway - to the general topic of the thread, as for fasting, the muslims probably mostly fast ok - many do not. Those probably just reverse their eating cycle.

Fasting should be incorporated in all our lives - but not taken to such extremes as a month long fast.

I don’t find anything too holy about what mohammed did during Ramadan - here is one example:

**Ishaq:288 **“The Quraysh said, ‘Muhammad and his Companions have violated the sacred month, shed blood, seized property, and taken men captive. Muhammad claims that he is following obedience to Allah, yet he is the first to violate the holy month and to kill.’”

---

But, it doesn’t seem to matter to muslims what mohammed did because they look at it as a test of their faith. (no logic there - the guy starts something then breaks it!)

Here is a hadith on what one did during Ramadan to an old woman:
**Tabari VIII:96 **“A raiding party led by Zayd set out against Umm in Ramadan. During it, Umm suffered a cruel death. Zyad tied her legs with rope and then tied her between two camels until they split her in two. She was a very old woman. Then they brought Umm’s daughter and Abdallah to the Messenger. Umm’s daughter belonged to Salamah who had captured her. Muhammad asked Salamah for her, and Salamah gave her to him.”

Here is some info from the surah and hadith on mohammed’s breaking ramadan:

The conquest of Mecca began in the month in which the Qur’an prohibited fighting. **Tabari VIII:160 **“Allah’s Apostle set out on the expedition against the people of Mecca in the month of Ramadan.” The prophet wasn’t religious; he knew Islam’s “holy months” were a farce. After all, he had stolen the dogma from a pagan.

But why do Muslims follow a prophet who so blatantly ignored his god’s orders? Qur’an 9:5 “When the sacred forbidden months for fighting are past, fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, beleaguer them, and lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war.”

 

[R_not]

I suppose in some parts of the USA - the muslims are pigging out right about now - so this thread will be idle for some time unless some others post in it. Or if the muslims get filled up and come back to post. As the sun is carried around by the 360 angels to my side of the USA (California) the number of muslims dropping from this site will increase so they can go and pig out too. (Is the words ‘pigging out’ haram in islam? Or should I stick to the word gorge?)

So to entertain you until the fast starts up again - here are some hadiths on what allah told mohammed how the sun moves in the sky, this is some of the science of islam - the word of allah - the all-knowing - who created those angels - who made no mistakes…

**Tabari I:244 **“Allah then created for the sun a chariot with 360 handholds from the luminosity of the light of the Throne and entrusted 360 of the angels inhabiting the lower heaven with the sun and its chariot, each of them gripping one of those handholds. Allah also entrusted 360 angels with the moon.”

**Tabari I:234 **“Then the Prophet said: ‘For the sun and the moon, Allah created easts and wests on the two sides of the earth and the two rims of heaven. There are 180 springs in the west of black clay-this is why Allah’s word says: “He found the sun setting in a muddy spring.” [18:86] The black clay bubbles and boils like a pot when it boils furiously.’”

 

[planten]

I suppose in some parts of the USA - the muslims are pigging out right about now - so this thread will be idle for some time unless some others post in it. Or if the muslims get filled up and come back to post. As the sun is carried around by the 360 angels to my side of the USA (California) the number of muslims dropping from this site will increase so they can go and pig out too. (Is the words ‘pigging out’ haram in islam? Or should I stick to the word gorge?)

So to entertain you until the fast starts up again - here are some hadiths on what allah told mohammed how the sun moves in the sky, this is some of the science of islam - the word of allah - the all-knowing - who created those angels - who made no mistakes…

**Tabari I:244 **“Allah then created for the sun a chariot with 360 handholds from the luminosity of the light of the Throne and entrusted 360 of the angels inhabiting the lower heaven with the sun and its chariot, each of them gripping one of those handholds. Allah also entrusted 360 angels with the moon.”

**Tabari I:234 **“Then the Prophet said: ‘For the sun and the moon, Allah created easts and wests on the two sides of the earth and the two rims of heaven. There are 180 springs in the west of black clay-this is why Allah’s word says: “He found the sun setting in a muddy spring.” [18:86] The black clay bubbles and boils like a pot when it boils furiously.’”

**The bundle of Hadith has no value for an ignorant person. But it is still far better and more reliable and more voluminous than the bible NT. Hadith is much more reliable than bible and in addition we have the Quran, the actual revealed book.

Some christian friends here have admitted that they never had any revealed book and Jesus did not leave any book. Even Moses sleft something for the Jews to read and follow. But Jesus did nothing. Why? Because he knew he was not to indulge in any new law. He was to strictly follow the old doctrine of the Jews. i.e. the OT.

The bible NT has no value. And there was no need for it unless it was a direct word from Jesus… But since Jesus did not write a word nor told any one to write from him, so there was no need of any separate book. The knowledge given to Jesus from his God was for his guidance only because he was not any law bearing prophet. He hd not come to change the law or to cancel the law of Moses a.s. He had the authority to modify it slightly and to teach the correct application of the same law.

But the christians abondoned that good law.Now they are without any law.

**

 

[R_not]

**The bundle of Hadith has no value for an ignorant person. But it is still far better and more reliable and more voluminous than the bible NT. Hadith is much more reliable than bible and in addition we have the Quran, the actual revealed book.

Some christian friends here have admitted that they never had any revealed book and Jesus did not leave any book. Even Moses sleft something for the Jews to read and follow. But Jesus did nothing. Why? Because he knew he was not to indulge in any new law. He was to strictly follow the old doctrine of the Jews. i.e. the OT.

The bible NT has no value. And there was no need for it unless it was a direct word from Jesus… But since Jesus did not write a word nor told any one to write from him, so there was no need of any separate book. The knowledge given to Jesus from his God was for his guidance only because he was not any law bearing prophet. He hd not come to change the law or to cancel the law of Moses a.s. He had the authority to modify it slightly and to teach the correct application of the same law.

But the christians abondoned that good law.Now they are without any law.

**

You’re right, but I am not an ignorant person. You don’t even know the beginnings of the hadiths and koran - let alone the Bible.

I will post again for you - to ignore - again.

The koran was also written years **AFTER **mohammed died. And it is based on people’s memories while the Bible was not. The people knew how to write during and the bible is based on written manuscripts.

“there are 25,000 ancient Bible parchments, scrolls, fragments, and letters testifying to the immediacy and accuracy of today’s Judeo-Christian scriptures. Yet the only archeological evidence that has survived from the Qur’an’s first century is a coin and an inscription inside the Dome of the Rock on the Jewish Temple Mount. These fragments differ from each other and from today’s book.”

From a man named J.M. Rodwell, one of the early koran translators, 'Rodwell continues his analysis with these words: “It would seem as if Zaid put his materials together just as they came to him, and often with entire disregard to continuity of subject and uniformity of style. The text, therefore, assumes the form of a most unreadable and incongruous patchwork, and conveys no idea whatever of the development and growth of any plan in the mind of the founder of Islam, or of the circumstances by which he was surrounded and influenced.” Then after praising Zaid for his lack of “tampering” Rodwell adds that it is “deeply regrettable that no contemporary provided any historical reference, suppressed contradictory verses, or excluded inaccurate statements.”

Therefore, even in the best possible light, the Qur’an as first assembled was a mess. It was out of order, jumbled together, contradictory, and inaccurate. Yet there is no proof that even this best-case scenario is reliable. There is no corroborating evidence that the “revelations” actually became a book under Bakr, Umar, or Zaid. There are no fragments or tablets. All we have is a flimsy oral tradition suggesting that this best-case scenario occurred. There isn’t even a letter or a historical reference from any of the literate nations conquered by the first Muslim warriors to suggest that the Qur’an existed.’

Keep in mind that the earliest ones who memorized the koran were being killed on the battle fields.

'The Islamic scripture, however, was all based upon long lines of oral tradition. No copy of the Qur’an dated to within a hundred years of the prophet’s death survives. The oldest Hadith manuscript is two hundred years removed from the events it chronicles. Islam’s dark past is addressed at length in the “Source Material” appendix.

Muslim Traditions allege that the Qur’an first became a book at the direction of Abu Bakr, Muhammad’s father-in-law, during the War of Compulsion. We are told that the first Caliph feared that Muhammad’s divine revelations would be lost because most of the best “reciters” had become warriors. According to a lone Hadith, Umar, the second Caliph, convinced Bakr that something had to be done. The fleeting memories of Jihad fighters were the sole repositories of the Qur’an, and they were being killed at an alarming rate. The loss of most or all of Muhammad’s “revelation” was imminent. Legend has it that Zaid, a native of Medina and one of the prophet’s helpers, was assigned the task. He “gathered together the fragments of the Qur’an from every quarter, from date leaves, bones, stone, and from the breasts of men.”’

 

[Sam_777]

There the airline gave me two bottles of some special wine. I did not know anything about the wine and women. When I went back, I gave one bottle to my room mates. They shouted happy words for me.
Next day, I carefully went to the office of my Superior (Mr. Holding) with the bottle wrapped in a towel. I presented the bottle to him.He was so happy and jumped with joy. He said his wife loved that wine very much.

You did that while you are a Muslim !!!

 

[Muslim_Woman]

Salaam/peace;

BeeSweet:
It’s not a MUST for a pregnant mom to fast . If her health permits, she can do it . It depends on individual.

**It’s not a sin for her not to fast **but she must do the fasting later.