Ramadan

[famdigy]

I have a question relating to ramadan,
I know you cant drink water also.
Now i noticed the last few days its been getting close to 50 degrees in some parts of the middle east (thats around 120 fahrenheit for my American friends here )
How do people survive in these temperatures without drinking water all day?
I mean, the fasting us Catholics undertake is fair, but this is close to barbaric…

We are exempt from fasting if there is risk to health or life, I’m sure Sam knows how hot it gets in Saudi Arabia, most people don’t go out between 12-4 in the afternoon and there’s air conditioning everywhere.

 

[dzheremi]

I do not know what your reply has to do with what I posted, R_not. I thought I made a very reasonable request in very respectful terms. Sam is a man in a very difficult position, who is looking to fully embrace Christianity and needs our help. Why are you so against offering help to someone like that? Haven’t you ever needed help and comfort? I am aware that you are frustrated and angry about the violence that you see in the Muslim world, but what we have here is a man that through the grace of God is looking for a path to the peace that is Jesus Christ. There is no violence in that. He should be admired for coming to the Lord under great personal and societal pressure. I hope there are millions more like him. Better an honestly seeking Muslim come to Christ than have his heart turned to stone like that of the fanatic characture you are painting. We should welcome Muslim-background Christians, both those here with us now and those yet to come! They strengthen Christianity and provide powerful testimony of the love and comfort of our Saviour in even the most dire of circumstances.

I also don’t trust them since deception is a part of islam, and when the ‘moderates’ ignore their own koran and hadiths - that is part of the deception. Even from a supposed ‘peaceful’ sounding one.

Does this mean that you do not believe that Saudi Christians exist? Would you like to tell me what you think stories like this one are all about, then? Is the story fake or a Muslim tactic? Asianews is a Christian news service.

A saudi muslim talking about peace and tolerance is a laugh too. Our Pope can’t even talk to these people about tolerance

If that is so, then why is the Vatican in talks with Saudi authorities about building churches in Saudi Arabia?

I am not saying that Saudi is a land of peace and freedom for all or anything close to that, but this is at least a step in the right direction. The Christians in SA deserve to have churches in which to pray!

 

[dolphinlove]

We are exempt from fasting if there is risk to health or life, I’m sure Sam knows how hot it gets in Saudi Arabia, most people don’t go out between 12-4 in the afternoon and there’s air conditioning everywhere.

thanks for the explanation, but what about the days before aircon came in?
In those conditions, even the most healthiest person would feel heat stroke etc…

 

[MugenOne]

In Saudi Arabia, the AC is pretty much on all day.

thanks for the explanation, but what about the days before aircon came in?
In those conditions, even the most healthiest person would feel heat stroke etc…

 

[R_not]

I do not know what your reply has to do with what I posted, R_not. I thought I made a very reasonable request in very respectful terms. Sam is a man in a very difficult position, who is looking to fully embrace Christianity and needs our help. Why are you so against offering help to someone like that? Haven’t you ever needed help and comfort? I am aware that you are frustrated and angry about the violence that you see in the Muslim world, but what we have here is a man that through the grace of God is looking for a path to the peace that is Jesus Christ. There is no violence in that. He should be admired for coming to the Lord under great personal and societal pressure. I hope there are millions more like him. Better an honestly seeking Muslim come to Christ than have his heart turned to stone like that of the fanatic characture you are painting. We should welcome Muslim-background Christians, both those here with us now and those yet to come! They strengthen Christianity and provide powerful testimony of the love and comfort of our Saviour in even the most dire of circumstances.

Does this mean that you do not believe that Saudi Christians exist? Would you like to tell me what you think stories like this one are all about, then? Is the story fake or a Muslim tactic? Asianews is a Christian news service.

If that is so, then why is the Vatican in talks with Saudi authorities about building churches in Saudi Arabia?

I am not saying that Saudi is a land of peace and freedom for all or anything close to that, but this is at least a step in the right direction. The Christians in SA deserve to have churches in which to pray!

Yes, I believe Saudi Christians exist. As for the Pope talking with the saudis - that fell on deaf ears and when one muslim thought that it should be considered - he was beheaded.

Saudis vote down toleration:
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/020468.php
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/020468.php

This is the muslim’s idea of toleration and mutual respect with the Pope - for the Pope to accept mohammed:
jihadwatch.org/dhimmiwatch/archives/020398.php

examples of saudis talking out of both sides of their mouths:
jihadwatch.org/archives/021790.php

If I misunderstood your post - sorry.

I am going to leave it at that. I don’t see any toleration of saudi muslims, and the funny part is the number of ‘moderates’ that we are told are moderate and they do nothing.

 

[planten]

I have a question relating to ramadan,
I know you cant drink water also.
Now i noticed the last few days its been getting close to 50 degrees in some parts of the middle east (thats around 120 fahrenheit for my American friends here )
How do people survive in these temperatures without drinking water all day?
I mean, the fasting us Catholics undertake is fair, but this is close to barbaric…

**You have to see it to believe it.

Youa are in the habit of abusing the laws given by the Lord. Already, church has done away with the laws that were given and practiced by Jesus himself. You have done away with them because that is also a difficult job.

So church is in the habit of making its own laws. But people go to the legislature to have the laws enacted for mariage and divorce. This reply is in response to your calling the law of Allah as barbaric.**

 

[dzheremi]

That may be so, but I felt that I should speak up for Sam and all in positions like his, since I found R_not’s comments to be unfair, unhelpful, and frankly not in keeping with Jesus’ words in the verses I asked that she think about (about loving thy neighbor being one of the two greatest laws on which hang all the law and the prophets). Maybe that too was unproductive in this case, but I’ll keep doing it because that is what Christ has told us to do above all else.

If I think someone is saying something silly or misinformed I’ll say so

Exactly!

I’ve said before it’s alien to me as a Catholic and it actually frightens me at times.

I feel the same way. It is alien to any kind of Christianity that I’ve ever known (I am a convert to Catholicism from a mainline Protestant denomination). There is no place for hatred in Christianity. We may become angry (after all we’re only human), we may despise those doctrines that we feel do not cherish the life that has been given to us by the Lord, we may even occasionally become misguided and lust for revenge (there’s usually some excuse for this, but it’s not as good as repenting for it is!), but I just can’t countenance hating another human being. Above all, we are called to love, and to forgive as we have been forgiven. It’s hard (harder even than fasting in 120 degree weather), but we have to do it.

It sounds to outsiders and probably even some among us sappy, weak, and naive in the face of agression and hatred, and maybe even arrogant, but it’s not about taking the “high road” to me: it’s about taking the only road, in keeping with Matthew 7:13-14.

 

[R_not]

Actually, you are just proving my point. Any discussions we have seen with muslims is either ignored, deflected, denied, etc. It is the same problem the Pope and others have had, as the articles I posted about trying to get religious tolerance a two way street. The muslims here expect it.

The difference between what you are saying is that in our societies we look for these perps and give them a trial and mete out punishment - in muslim countries they do not. And the IRA was such a small segment of society while the jihadists are not. They are worldwide and they are the cause of all but one or two of the over 35 wars around this globe. The communists are doing the others.

Ramadan is supposed to be a time of peace and we don’t see muslims in the rich muslim countries helping out the Afghanis - no, we are going to help. In fact, saudi arabia helps fund the training of jihadists in Pakistan that are now invading Afghanistan. Yeah, like mohammed didn’t follow ramadan - neither do the jihadists.

 

[R_not]

It is a familiar tactic to bring up Jesus, or that we are bad Christians, by muslims whenever they are aware that someone is not submitting to their hogwash about islam.

Not only do we witness the increase of violence in Afghanistan, but there have been riots in israel after ramadan prayers.
jihadwatch.org/archives/022563.php

And our own NYPD is beefing up security.
there are some videos in this website to click on and watch.

jihadwatch.org/archives/022507.php

Be prepared for taking up the slack for muslims workers insisting that they bring their religion to work and bringing ramadan in your own workplace soon:
jihadwatch.org/archives/022619.php

They won’t stop there - they want to impose their prayer times on everyone too.

The thing is that the muslims do not compromise. Compromise means for infidels to submit to them. period.

 

[Americanrevert]

Hello,

Again, let us be realistic.

dolphinlove: We fast from before the sunrise til the sunsets. We are to abstain from water, food, sexual pleasures, and anything that harms our bodies we are to avoid. We fast for our Creator and it is one of the major pillars of Islam.

After sunset we can eat or partake in intimacy with our spouses (no girlfriend/boyfriend scenario in Islam) and do what we normally do within the limitations of God’s message.

We have our celebration entitled “Eid” (the day after Ramadhan finishes) where we celebrate with family and friends. We go to hear a speech and pray together in the morning of Eid and then disperse to celebrate with family and friends.

Those who are sick or traveling make up days missed in the month of Ramadhan. God is Merciful and has set standards that we as humans can tolerate and He knows us better than we know ourselves.

Those who are mentally incapable are exempted and those who have not reached the age of puberty are free from fasting. Although it is good to teach the children about their Creator and how fasting is good for the body (getting rid of all the toxins that accumulate etc.) and let them see how far if they want to fast in a day. Myself I let my children fast if they wish and if they do not, it is up to them. Most of them make it to lunchtime . But no pressure is on them since they will not be held accountable.

Fasting can be strenuous, but it is good for the body, mind and soul. God who created us set us guidelines to follow by and He is the Most Merciful and as I said before, He knows us better than we know ourselves.

I hope this answered your question.

Thank you

AmericanRevert

 

[Sam_777]

The ones on these threads are in full da’wa mode and to think that islam is equal to Judaism and Christianity is nothing but a wish on their part.

I can understand you motivations, but believe me I’m not here in da’wa mode at all, I’m here to learn about Christianity and to see why Islam is not a true religion from God.

I don’t support killing, wars and the likes. This is one of the reasons I left Islam, because jihad is part of the Islamic faith.

As a Christian, I don’t support violence.

You have a great heart Silouan, however, one of the reasons that bother me in Islam is the torturing practices in their killing at early Muhammed’ days and nowadays by extremists.

I consider Sam my brother and will not hesitate to support him and anyone else who is in a similar position in their faith. To show love for others is the greatest of commandments. Remember Matthew 22:37-40, where Jesus tells us that upon that commandment and the commandment to love the Lord with all of your heart, soul, and mind hang ALL of the law. I deeply believe this as I know you must too. I love Sam as I love you and all who live in Christ either covertly or openly.

:hug1:
Thank you very much dzheremi for your kind words in this post and in the previous ones.

 

[cathopologist]

Sam_777, i hope you find what you are looking for. Let me be the first to say if you think Christianity is not the religion for you after all and wish to revert back to Islam, we will not hold grudges against you. I’d rather you feel comfortable for your sake and not for others or to appease others.

Myself and other Christians will continue to pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you to the Truth.

 

[Sam_777]

Sam_777, i hope you find what you are looking for. Let me be the first to say if you think Christianity is not the religion for you after all and wish to revert back to Islam, we will not hold grudges against you. I’d rather you feel comfortable for your sake and not for others or to appease others.

Myself and other Christians will continue to pray for the Holy Spirit to guide you to the Truth.

cathopologist.

Its enough for me that I have discovered God’s love through Jesus, which I will not forget no matter what happens to me.

 

[Sam_777]

dolphinlove;4159864:

I have a question relating to ramadan,
I know you cant drink water also.
Now i noticed the last few days its been getting close to 50 degrees in some parts of the middle east (thats around 120 fahrenheit for my American friends here )
How do people survive in these temperatures without drinking water all day?
I mean, the fasting us Catholics undertake is fair, but this is close to barbaric…

We are exempt from fasting if there is risk to health or life, I’m sure Sam knows how hot it gets in Saudi Arabia, most people don’t go out between 12-4 in the afternoon and there’s air conditioning everywhere.

Hi dolphinlove & famdigy,

Temperature here in Saudi Arabia under direct sun can reach up to 60°C (140F), the temperature you hear in the news forecast is taken in the shade.

As for the fasting and as famdigy said, people are staying in air conditioned environment all the time (cars, offices, homes), and usually work load degrades in Ramadan here in Saudi Arabia and productivity is very low, we have shorter working hours (only 5 hours per day for government sector and 6 hours for private sector), government timing will be shifted from 7:30am to 10am (so people will have more time to sleep), and we almost have the last ten days of Ramadan as holiday because of Eid vacation, this year we will have official Ramadan plus Eid vacation from 23ed September till 5th October.

 

[MugenOne]

Sam,

When I was attached to the Royal Saudi Naval Forces on King Abdulaziz Rd, we would show up to work at 9 am and leave at 11:30 during Ramadan. It was crazy, but I did manage to get a little work out of it.

Olaya street must be packed by fast break during Ramadan. I miss the food there.

Hi dolphinlove & famdigy,

Temperature here in Saudi Arabia under direct sun can reach up to 60°C (140F), the temperature you hear in the news forecast is taken in the shade.

As for the fasting and as famdigy said, people are staying in air conditioned environment all the time (cars, offices, homes), and usually work load degrades in Ramadan here in Saudi Arabia and productivity is very low, we have shorter working hours (only 5 hours per day for government sector and 6 hours for private sector), government timing will be shifted from 7:30am to 10am (so people will have more time to sleep), and we almost have the last ten days of Ramadan as holiday because of Eid vacation, this year we will have official Ramadan plus Eid vacation from 23ed September till 5th October.

 

[planten]

cathopologist.

Its enough for me that I have discovered God’s love through Jesus, which I will not forget no matter what happens to me.

**
Dear Sam, Please remember that the Muslims have all the prophets with them including Jesus. We are not missing any one. We have the Abraham, Issac, jacob, Joseph, David, Soloman, and Jesus and Muhammad. We are not missing any of them. And we love them all and consider them as the most pious men of God.

Niether do we reduce the status of any one messenger nor do we exagerrate and increase the status of any of them.

You seemed to have trouble about understanding the early Islamic wars. Please know that Muhammad was persecuted and ridiculed same as Jesus was opposed. The problem was that Jesus was caught very quickly by his enemies, by the use of government force.

But in Arabia, there was no government. So nobody could use the soldiers to catch Muhammad. It all goes back to Hazrat Abraham a.s. and Sarah and Hagar. There was no conflict amongst them. They were all very well and happy. Abraham a.s. settled his sons in far away areas, the younger one, Issac in Kana’an (Syria) and the elder one (Ishmael) in the wilderness of Arabia.

Whereas the area of Syria was very good for living (fertile), the area of Arabia was not comfortable. However, the children of Ishmael (12 princes) survived the hardship and spread all over Arabia. But the outside world, the Romans and the Persians were not at all interested in the Arab world. They never entered or captured it.

That was the wisdom, under divine guidance that Abraham settled his eldest son Ishmael in Arabia. And Abraham prayed for Ishmael and his children and prayed that a prophet from amongst them may be sent to them who would teach them the book and wisdom…**

 

[dolphinlove]

**You have to see it to believe it.

Youa are in the habit of abusing the laws given by the Lord. Already, church has done away with the laws that were given and practiced by Jesus himself. You have done away with them because that is also a difficult job.

So church is in the habit of making its own laws. But people go to the legislature to have the laws enacted for mariage and divorce. This reply is in response to your calling the law of Allah as barbaric.**

You call this a response???
You show me how we have done away with the laws Jesus gave us, go on, prove it.
You show me one law within the bible that we have altered.
Muhammads laws are barbaric, not Gods laws, well his **true **laws that is (ie the bible).

 

[Booklover]

You call this a response???
You show me how we have done away with the laws Jesus gave us, go on, prove it.
You show me one law within the bible that we have altered.
Muhammads laws are barbaric, not Gods laws, well his **true **laws that is (ie the bible).

Dolphy! :hug1:

Vickie

 

[dolphinlove]

I hope this answered your question.

Hi
And thanks for taking the time to answer my question, but the one remains about time before air con.
Look, i know people must be thinking im just bringing up silly little points, but i think points like this need to be answered.
Why would God expect us to fast, without water, in 60 degree temperatures? As i said, in a previous post, even the healthiest people can suffer under these circumstances.
I myself come from a very hot country in the summer, in Australia, out in the desert, it can reach up to 50+ degrees as well, and i know full well, if you go without water for a day, the survival rate is not high.
I honestly do not think this type of fasting was intended for us by God, no matter how little you do, the human body will find it impossible to survive with no water during the day in 60 degree temperatures.
This is why im so adamant with this point.
Im like a dog with a bone, i keep going till i get the answer

 

[dolphinlove]

Dolphy! :hug1:

Vickie

Vickie my dear friend :hug1:
Thank you for your support.