RANT!!!

  • Thread starter Thread starter Dempsey1919
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
D

Dempsey1919

Guest
I get so sick of the way that faithful Catholics are viewed by other members of the Church.

Everytime I mention that I attend the Tridentine Mass I get this strange look as if I am some kind of wierdo. It’s even worse when I say that I am against contraception. It’s really anoying to be thought of as some kind of extremist because I uphold Church doctrine.

What is wrong with some people? They seem to have a total aversion towards anything that is traditional. They think that everyone who attends the Tridentine Mass is some kind of schismatic radical. That isn’t correct nor is it fair.

They even seem opposed to the Latin language. When I ask for Latin Missals or prayer books all I get is a curt “we don’t have any.” Latin seems to have a stigma attached to it these days. Moreover, knowledge of the language has sunk to an all time low and no one seems to care. This is our history - it is worth saving.

Why is this? All I want to do is be a faithful Catholic. I like the traditional liturgy and everything that goes with it. I like the latin language and the unity that it creates. I like traditional Churches with stained glass windows and statues. What’s the big deal?! I’m not against Vatican II or the New Mass but everyone automatically assumes that I am. I really annoys me!
 
They even seem opposed to the Latin language. When I ask for Latin Missals or prayer books all I get is a curt “we don’t have any.”
Click to expand...
Go to Border or Barnes and Noble or other big chain. If they don’t have what you are looking for in stock, they will politely order it for you, no problemo.

Items like you’re asking for that have little demand, that’s the real specialty of these megastores, the ability to find, and catalogue so many millions of titles.
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I get so sick of the way that faithful Catholics are viewed by other members of the Church.

Everytime I mention that I attend the Tridentine Mass I get this strange look as if I am some kind of wierdo. It’s even worse when I say that I am against contraception. It’s really anoying to be thought of as some kind of extremist because I uphold Church doctrine.

What is wrong with some people? They seem to have a total aversion towards anything that is traditional. They think that everyone who attends the Tridentine Mass is some kind of schismatic radical. That isn’t correct nor is it fair.

They even seem opposed to the Latin language. When I ask for Latin Missals or prayer books all I get is a curt “we don’t have any.” Latin seems to have a stigma attached to it these days. Moreover, knowledge of the language has sunk to an all time low and no one seems to care. This is our history - it is worth saving.

Why is this? All I want to do is be a faithful Catholic. I like the traditional liturgy and everything that goes with it. I like the latin language and the unity that it creates. I like traditional Churches with stained glass windows and statues. What’s the big deal?! I’m not against Vatican II or the New Mass but everyone automatically assumes that I am. I really annoys me!
Click to expand...
Feel better?😃 I am not in your situation because so far we do not have the Latin Mass here yet, and we may never with the Bishop that we have, but there is nothing wrong with you, in my humble and by no means expert opinion, a lot of the world’s views take more of a front stage than church views, people are so lax in the world and it is the way they are with God. I remember having a customer in my store who had several children and was pregnant again and we no sooner congratulated her on her latest pregnancy that another person said, your pregnant again?! I felt so sorry for her, who cares and what business is it of any one how many children she and her husband bring into this world. God Bless you.
 
Why? That is simple. People do not want to work hard. They do not want religion to be a burden. They want to be a social catholic. They use being Catholic as a social definition or something to do. They view it as a lot of main stream protestants do. Just something to do, something to “believe in”. Most people are Catholic for the wrong reason. A lot of it is the times, and poor catechesis. Just keep praying for them. If you are letting Jesus lead your life, if you are letting the Holy Spirit fill your heart and guide it, you will be fine. AND I MEAN let the Holy Spirit guide you, not just say it. If you are a regular mass goer, pray fervently and frequently, love GOD and your neighbor your fine. but overall most Catholics are LAZY.
 
Dempsey: Welcome to the world of us who were raised before Vatican II. Still here, not dead yet, and feeling better!

Patience is the key. What took forty years to totally unravel is not going to come back overnight. And, I respect the spirituality of my peers of my generation. In all honesty, there were those who thoroughly embraced what happened after Vatican II. They are the same age as me; they have the very same experiences as me. I cannot explain to you what happened (at least in the USA) during 1968 - 1969.

What I can explain to you is that many of us were appalled by what happened. It was too much, too soon, and too quick. The myth that everyone accepted the change from the TLM to the NO in the vernacular happily and readily, is just that - a myth.

I can’t talk about the rest of the United States, but in predominately Catholic New Orleans, the changes were rammed down our throat. The folks in the pews submitted to the magisterium of HMC.

Here we are 40 years later. My parents’ generation is long gone.
Something you young folks must understand…to expose most NO parishes to the TLM is the functional equivalent of having all that was rammed down our throats willy-nilly back in the late 60s/early 70s is the same thing as having a TLM rammed down other people’s throat who have never experienced the TLM or Catholic traditions as I knew them as a child.
 
CatholicCajun said:
Feel better?😃 I am not in your situation because so far we do not have the Latin Mass here yet, and we may never with the Bishop that we have, but there is nothing wrong with you, in my humble and by no means expert opinion, a lot of the world’s views take more of a front stage than church views, people are so lax in the world and it is the way they are with God. I remember having a customer in my store who had several children and was pregnant again and we no sooner congratulated her on her latest pregnancy that another person said, your pregnant again?! I felt so sorry for her, who cares and what business is it of any one how many children she and her husband bring into this world. God Bless you.
Click to expand...
Mais, cher! We are not taliking theology here but if you ask your aunts and uncles (or older), the reality is that this Irish kid from NO would have no problem attending Mass in Thibodeaux, Houma, or Grand Couteau, cause I did. 😃

This is not about how many kids parents bring into the world. That reduces V II to a one note samba and, having been in high school during the Humanae Vitae era, it doesn’t wash.

You can’t say that we are not profoundly Catholic down here in south Louisiana. Big families are a part of life for all of us no matter what our ethnic background.
 
Patience, brothers.

There is nothing essentially wrong with the NO itself. True,
it was a slap-dash, haphazard revision of the Latin Mass
and needs to be thoroughly revised, but that will take (as it
should) a long time. The problems are mainly how it is celebrated and that the translations of the texts were done
by people with no sense whatever of the English language
and no liking for the Catholic Faith.

Being born long before VatII, I know how badly the Tridentine
Mass could be and was celebrated. Its use will not be a magic
cure for anything, nor must it be rammed down people’s throats.
We have had enough of ramming.

What we need is good priests. Some we have who seem to
have no clue as to what they are doing when they celebrate
Mass. Others know what they are supposed to be doing and
hate it, being apostate.

Our Lord said that the gates of Hell would never prevail against
His Church. He never said that they might not come close.
In this country they have come very close indeed, but times
are changing.

Keep the Faith.

Edmac
 
I am reminded of an incident that I have spoke about before:

Last spring before I went to my 1st TLM in deacdes I went to the local Catholic bookstore to see if they had any books that might help me to refreshen my mind about what is involved in a TLM.

The lady at the bookstore said, ***“Why would you want to do that?” ***(Go to a TLM.)

I said that I wanted to go again and she said***…“There was a reason for Vatican II”.*** That has stuck with me…but I have gone to the TLM and am very pleased…therefore I go daily.😃

:heart:Blyss
 
I’m with you Dempsey, I was born in the early 50’s, knew the Mass by heart in Latin and then WHAM-had the rug pulled right out from under me. It took me forever to know how to respond in English:D
I much preferred the Traditional for the reverence, the beautiful music and the bells, smells and all.
My children have never experienced a TLM yet but I keep telling them about it and at least now they want to go.
 
I’m not sure how old you are Dempsey, but if you live long enough, you may just see the Church’s internal strife with shopping cart Catholics at least partially resolved. All the young priests nowadays (not all, but more than thirty years ago) seem to be loyal to the magisterium and mindful of tradition, so we may just see internal change in the future. Just think of the fact that in less than twenty years, the FSSP has gone from 12 priests to 180 priests. I don’t think any order has seen that kind of growth since the Franciscans in the Middle Ages!

In my Diocese, all the priests are 55+ (except for one, who happens to be the most orthodox one), and most of them are “spirit of vatican 2” types. However, one of my friends went to a conference a couple months back in a neighbouring Diocese where the priest spoke about confession, abortion, and contraception, something that hasn’t been mentioned in our Diocese (so he tells me) in thirty years! Also, there were dozens of altar boys, young children recieving on the tongue, and women with mantillas. Hopefully, this will spread across the Diocesan border.

Just remember that there have been such periods in the Church before, and we sprang back. Sometimes a bad situation produces Holy people. For example, during the French Revolution, France had very few priests, and seminarians could not always be properly trained. One in particular couldn’t even follow his Latin studies, and was generally regarded as obtuse. The Bishop asked his spiritual advisor if he was Holy man, and when the answer was yes, he ordained the young man without further ado. The young man had to continue to be tutoured until the death of his spiritual advisor. Believe it or not, this young man was St. Jean Vianney, the greatest parish priest of all time.

Hang in there, you’re not alone,

Mat.
 
In order for another parish member to describe our family they called us the “Amish” people.:eek: This happened when we hired a new music minister and our daughter signed up for choir and to cantor. The poor man thought we drove buggies and parked our horse in the parking lot.🤷

We go to the TLM at St Vincents when we can and our NO the rest of the time.
 
I hear you, Dempsey. I’m in the Archdiocese of LA- not even in the heart of it (where you can find maybe a semi-legit Latin Mass), but a suburb with absolutely no interest in Tradition. Once at my parish we were havinga discussion on who was the best Pope to date, and when I said “Pope Pius X” people looked at me like I grew another head.

Things are looking up though. We’ve got the best Pope we’ve had for a long, long time, and change (or unchange) is in the wind. My only prater is for Benedict to outlive Leo XIII!
 
Big and profound sigh!!! I have waited forty years for us to return to our roots. I’m 56 and not dead yet. I sing in a cathedral choir with folks who are older than me. In most of all of your parishes, you have living human beings who are of an age or older than me. The resources to restore Latin are right there in front of you. We submitted to the magisterium of HMC back in 68/69. So many of us did not like what happened much less what followed.
 
Oh, you’re not the only one, Dempsey1919]!

For me it all sunk to an all-time low when I revealed to a Catholic woman I have known for 20 years, and who used to be my schoolteacher (I grew up in this town), that I went to the Latin Mass, even regularly. Her retort was “The Latin Mass!? Oh, that’s HORRIBLE!”. (I hate to tell her that I like novus ordo Masses with some Latin too!)

I think pjn6444.

What’s equally upsetting is the mistaken belief by many that young people (I’m not yet 30) automatically do not like older things, that we “need” modern popular stuff… sometimes it truly feels like a bunch of badly-catechised overgrown hippies using young folk as an excuse to hang on to lax practices.
 
In some dioceses, the NO is done reverently, and done (usually) well.

In such places, the call for the TLM is limited, and usually most vocally amongst individuals who either reject the Church’s authority or want to “hear the magic words.”

I know of a handful of TLMers who don’t fit into either stereotype in Anchorage… but they are vastly outnumbered by those clamoring for the “magic words” in the “magical tongue”… who believe that Christ spoke the Last Supper in Latin. I’m not joking, either. That accurately describes the two SSPX-goers I know well enough to make assertions about.

A few, however, miss the old mass for its brevity… 20-25min daily Latin Low Masses, as opposed to 40-45min daily vernacular masses in the newer missal.

I have it on good authority (My father, a deacon of the Archdiocese of Anchorage, citing the routine Chancery News Mailings) that the Abp. has sent some priests off to learn the EF properly, and to come back and teach it to those priests who want to learn it.

There never was an indult parish, and there’s been little call for a regular latin mass in Anchorage. There is one tinySSPX parish. It tends to draw the “Magic Words” crowd, and several of the “The Church had absolutely no Authority to change the Missal at all.” (These last have obviously never compared texts between Trent, 1900, 1950, 1960, 1962… numerous small adjustments over the years.)
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I get so sick of the way that faithful Catholics are viewed by other members of the Church.

Everytime I mention that I attend the Tridentine Mass I get this strange look as if I am some kind of wierdo.
Click to expand...
Those of us who cherish a reverently celebrated Novus Ordo Mass get this kind of flak too. Over on this thread someone spoke coontemptuously of the NO as a “middle aged women’s Mass…”
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?p=3000294
 
Aramis said:
In some dioceses, the NO is done reverently, and done (usually) well.

In such places, the call for the TLM is limited, and usually most vocally amongst individuals who either reject the Church’s authority or want to “hear the magic words.”

I know of a handful of TLMers who don’t fit into either stereotype in Anchorage… but they are vastly outnumbered by those clamoring for the “magic words” in the “magical tongue”… who believe that Christ spoke the Last Supper in Latin. I’m not joking, either. That accurately describes the two SSPX-goers I know well enough to make assertions about.

A few, however, miss the old mass for its brevity… 20-25min daily Latin Low Masses, as opposed to 40-45min daily vernacular masses in the newer missal.

I have it on good authority (My father, a deacon of the Archdiocese of Anchorage, citing the routine Chancery News Mailings) that the Abp. has sent some priests off to learn the EF properly, and to come back and teach it to those priests who want to learn it.

There never was an indult parish, and there’s been little call for a regular latin mass in Anchorage. There is one tinySSPX parish. It tends to draw the “Magic Words” crowd, and several of the “The Church had absolutely no Authority to change the Missal at all.” (These last have obviously never compared texts between Trent, 1900, 1950, 1960, 1962… numerous small adjustments over the years.)
Click to expand...
Or maybe it’s people who want to pray the same prayers as the Saints over the centuries, and not ones concocted from a committee in the 1960’s.

Is the “magical tongue” the one mentioned by Pope John the XXIIIrd here?:

adoremus.org/VeterumSapientia.html

I don’t know of any Traditionalist that doesn’t realize that the missal has changed somewhat over the centuries (otherwise known as “organic development.”) Are all the Traditionalists who don’t know that in Alaska?
 
Dempsey1919 said:
I get so sick of the way that faithful Catholics are viewed by other members of the Church.

Everytime I mention that I attend the Tridentine Mass I get this strange look as if I am some kind of wierdo. It’s even worse when I say that I am against contraception. It’s really anoying to be thought of as some kind of extremist because I uphold Church doctrine.

What is wrong with some people? They seem to have a total aversion towards anything that is traditional. They think that everyone who attends the Tridentine Mass is some kind of schismatic radical. That isn’t correct nor is it fair.

They even seem opposed to the Latin language. When I ask for Latin Missals or prayer books all I get is a curt “we don’t have any.” Latin seems to have a stigma attached to it these days. Moreover, knowledge of the language has sunk to an all time low and no one seems to care. This is our history - it is worth saving.

Why is this? All I want to do is be a faithful Catholic. I like the traditional liturgy and everything that goes with it. I like the latin language and the unity that it creates. I like traditional Churches with stained glass windows and statues. What’s the big deal?! I’m not against Vatican II or the New Mass but everyone automatically assumes that I am. I really annoys me!
Click to expand...
You are being INSULTING to the vast majority of Catholics in the world by implying only those who attend a TLM are **faithful **Catholics.
 
thistle said:
You are being INSULTING to the vast majority of Catholics in the world by implying only those who attend a TLM are **faithful **Catholics.
Click to expand...
Read Dempsey1919’s post carefully: he/she didn’t seem to insinuate that at all. In fact, the other sensible comments show that other respondents took Dempsey1919 to mean all the faithful.

True, he/she may have a personal preference: “What’s the big deal?! I’m not against Vatican II or the New Mass but everyone automatically assumes that I am”, but the comments show that the original post clearly encompasses anyone who would like something other than banal guitar-strumming. “Methinks the Lady doth protest too much”; i.e., you’re reading too much into this.

This was a perfectly sensible and charitable thread until you butted in. :mad:
 
You are being INSULTING to the vast majority of Catholics in the world by implying only those who attend a TLM are **faithful **Catholics.
Click to expand...
This is exactly the kind of thing that I am referring to. Every time I mention the Tridentine Mass people automatically assume that I am against the Novus Ordo and Vatican II. I am not. However, I am against so-called Catholics who endorse artificial birth control, homosexuality etc. Mass preference and faithfulness do not go hand in hand; there are dissenters on both sides of the fence. Sadly, those who attend the Tridentine Mass are stigmatised far more than those who attend the Pauline Mass.

Most faithful traditionalists will know what I mean. More often than not, we are treated like lepers because we favour the Mass of the Ancient Roman rite. Lay people, priests and even some bishops unfairly regard us as radicals and wierdos. It’s just not fair.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top