W
wmscott
Guest
Thanks for the info. I may try a Latin Mass if I am ever in an area that has one.
- Status
D
Dempsey1919
Guest
Apart from on this forum, I don’t really discuss my religious preferences unless I am asked or if the conversation is solely about religion. I don’t think that traditional-style Catholicism is superior - it honestly is just a preference. That being said, I do think that the Tridentine Mass is superior to the Novus Ordo, but again that’s just my personal opinion and I realise that other people may love the Novus Ordo as much as I love the Latin Mass.
The problem is the way people react when I answer that I attend the Tridentine Mass. They automatically assume that I’m some kind of radical wierdo who denies the legitimacy of Vatican II and the New Mass. I can see why they would think this because there are a lot of people who give traditionalists a bad name; however, I wish that people wouldn’t assume that we are all like the bad apples.
I look forward to the day when Mass preference isn’t taken as a kind of political statement. Sedevacantists and others have given the Tridentine Mass a terrible stigma - and all traditionalists are tarred with the same brush. That is why I posted this rant. I just get fed up with it at times and wish that people wouldn’t assume the worst about me (and other traditionalists).
B
bear06
Guest
It’s pretty much the same for us that attend the Novus Ordo. I’m sure we’ve all been called a modernist at one point or another. I feel for you. Lumping is bad.
K
kentuckyliz
Guest
I am sorry that some sedevacantist-extremists have made it difficult for many faithful traditionalists. I’ve never heard any nasty comments at my parish.
I don’t really get anything out of the TLM but understand how some people do, and I fully support faithful traditionalists in their desires for the TLM. So here’s one faithful Catholic who attends the Mass of Paul VI who is extending a warm charitable hug to my faithful Catholic friends who love the TLM. Peace be with you, brothers and sisters!
I don’t really get anything out of the TLM but understand how some people do, and I fully support faithful traditionalists in their desires for the TLM. So here’s one faithful Catholic who attends the Mass of Paul VI who is extending a warm charitable hug to my faithful Catholic friends who love the TLM. Peace be with you, brothers and sisters!
M
Malcolm_McLean
Guest
I think the same way. You might not always agree with the way things are done, but Mass isn’t the place to make little political gestures, even if the point being made is actually right.
P
piusphilistine
Guest
I guess that’s the gist of it. In a conversation I might well say “I prefer the Pauline Mass for xyz reasons.” Depending on the situation I might be exceedingly tactful in how I said that. What I would never say is the “XYZ Mass is superior to XYZ Mass.” Even with a qualifier like “I believe” or “for me”, it smacks strongly of ignorance and arrogance – they are both gifts from God.
I attend the Tridentine Mass (and other Eucharistic Liturgies) when I am able. I have never had anyone automatically assume I was a weirdo (it usually takes a few conversations
). And if that ever did happen, I wouldn’t care less.Then again I don’t make such pronouncements with my chin sticking-out while I am swaggering around. Hopefully you don’t either but I have seen Catholics of ALL flavors bait others with how they said what they said. Should others take the bait? Nope, but many do.
P
Pious_Mat
Guest
No offence to anyone, but I find the line “I get nothing out of the Tridentine Mass” rather disheartening. I also “find I get nothing out of the Novus Ordo” disheartening, as both are witness to the awesome miracle of transubstantiation. I find this especially saddening in the case of the latter statement, as it was attended and loved by 99% of the Saints and Holy people we admire, was the centre of Church life for 1900 years, and is the natural, organic product of what Christ Himself initiated.
I can understand if you don’t like the aesthetic aspects or the language, but to say that the Mass in *any * form “does nothing for you”…isn’t that a little harsh?
I can understand if you don’t like the aesthetic aspects or the language, but to say that the Mass in *any * form “does nothing for you”…isn’t that a little harsh?
M
Madaglan
Guest
The Eastern saints didn’t go to Mass; they went to Divine Liturgy.
C
Cat
Guest
I’m not interested in attending the TLM in our city. I’m a convert to Catholicism from evangelical Protestantism, and I love the NO Mass. I fully support the TLM and believe that every Catholic should have access to this Mass if it is their preference. I believe that the Catholic Church should strive to maintain the traditions (small “t”) of the Church, and I believe that Church should constantly be studying the liturgy and making sure that it is preserved.
I have mentioned on these forums that I’ve met several of the faithful TLM attenders in our city, and they are…not exactly friendly. This, combined with some of the “holier-than-thou” attitudes of some of the posters on this forum have resulted in a prejudice on my part against TLM Catholics. I confess that the prejudice is sinful and not justified.
HOWEVER–this weekend I sang in our all-city Messiah (Handel), and to my joy, I was seated next to a childhood pal who converted to Catholicism when she got married, and is now a faithful participant in the TLM in our city.
We had a great time catching up on 40 years!
Her delightful attitude and loving spirit did a great deal to help dissipate my prejudice and have more appreciation and love for the TLM and those Christians who prefer it.
She was interested in my conversion, my parish, and my piano playing, and she actually told me to call her and her husband if our 100 year-old parish needs them for the anniversary choir next year. I didn’t get any negative vibes from her whatsoever about NO Masses or modern music or LifeTeen or any of the things that I love.
She was fun and nice and normal!
Why am I posting this? To demonstrate the practicality of the Biblical statement that “love covers a multitude of sins.”
Dempsey1919, I’m glad that you are not stand-offish when you discuss the TLM. I think if you continue to speak in love to other Christians, they will melt in your hands!
If, however, you, I, or anyone else, is accusatory and condescending towards others with different practices, the others will understandably be repelled.
I have mentioned on these forums that I’ve met several of the faithful TLM attenders in our city, and they are…not exactly friendly. This, combined with some of the “holier-than-thou” attitudes of some of the posters on this forum have resulted in a prejudice on my part against TLM Catholics. I confess that the prejudice is sinful and not justified.
HOWEVER–this weekend I sang in our all-city Messiah (Handel), and to my joy, I was seated next to a childhood pal who converted to Catholicism when she got married, and is now a faithful participant in the TLM in our city.
We had a great time catching up on 40 years!
Her delightful attitude and loving spirit did a great deal to help dissipate my prejudice and have more appreciation and love for the TLM and those Christians who prefer it.
She was interested in my conversion, my parish, and my piano playing, and she actually told me to call her and her husband if our 100 year-old parish needs them for the anniversary choir next year. I didn’t get any negative vibes from her whatsoever about NO Masses or modern music or LifeTeen or any of the things that I love.
She was fun and nice and normal!
Why am I posting this? To demonstrate the practicality of the Biblical statement that “love covers a multitude of sins.”
Dempsey1919, I’m glad that you are not stand-offish when you discuss the TLM. I think if you continue to speak in love to other Christians, they will melt in your hands!
If, however, you, I, or anyone else, is accusatory and condescending towards others with different practices, the others will understandably be repelled.
B
brotherhrolf
Guest
Our local PBS station had Rick Steves with Christmas in Europe. You oughta see what Christmas Mass looks like in Salzburg - full orchestra, full choir, liturgical cast of thousands in gold dalmatics and fiddlebacks…the whole nine yards and then some. Not that I have ever attended one much less served at one.
Yes, Cat, there are folks here with what seems to be “holier than thou” attitudes. They can cite every little bit of minutiae about the TLM but I would submit to you that many of them are simply operating out of heartfelt fervor rather than “looking down their noses”.
For others, like myself, the TLM was the Mass we grew up with. Some of my age were happy with the transition to the NO and embraced the NO wholeheartedly. However, believe it or not there were a whole bunch of folks back in the pews in 1968 who did not like what had happened in just two short years. We simply submitted to the magesterium of HMC. It is very difficult to find words to express the abuses I have seen and the emotions I have felt over these last 40 years. Do I want to go back to the TLM - not particularly. Do I want to recover the reverence and the music? You bet.
Yes, Cat, there are folks here with what seems to be “holier than thou” attitudes. They can cite every little bit of minutiae about the TLM but I would submit to you that many of them are simply operating out of heartfelt fervor rather than “looking down their noses”.
For others, like myself, the TLM was the Mass we grew up with. Some of my age were happy with the transition to the NO and embraced the NO wholeheartedly. However, believe it or not there were a whole bunch of folks back in the pews in 1968 who did not like what had happened in just two short years. We simply submitted to the magesterium of HMC. It is very difficult to find words to express the abuses I have seen and the emotions I have felt over these last 40 years. Do I want to go back to the TLM - not particularly. Do I want to recover the reverence and the music? You bet.
P
piusphilistine
Guest
I think perhaps the greatest misstep with the Tridentine Mass was not to make it optional from the very beginning.
The implementation of the Pauline Mass on a worldwide level was also horrible – and the timing was bad too. Had it been implemented in say 1989 versus 1969 (?) with a GREAT deal more education AND training, I’m fairly certain things would have gone better…
The implementation of the Pauline Mass on a worldwide level was also horrible – and the timing was bad too. Had it been implemented in say 1989 versus 1969 (?) with a GREAT deal more education AND training, I’m fairly certain things would have gone better…
M
maurin
Guest
I’m curious–does it bother you that I kneel? If we were sitting next to each other at Mass, would it bother you? It doesn’t matter to me if you, as so many others in my Parish do, are still hugging and kissing and waving peace signs to the back of the Church through the beginning of the third verse of the Agnus Dei–although the GIRM clearly states otherwise.
So please answer my question–does it bother you that I am moved to do more in showing my personal reverance than the GIRM suggests?
P
piusphilistine
Guest
Why didn’t you answer my question? Why do you choose to ignore what the Church actually instructs in favor of what you personally feel is “better?”
You paint a perfect illustration of someone who dissents yet feels it’s OK for some reason, yet is clearly pained (despite your comments) when others dissent in a different manner.
The key is not if it bothers me or your fellow Mass-goers. The key is placing one’s ego behind one’s love for God and His Church – and the instructions that come with it.
A
Aramis
Guest
If your bishop has said to stand, yes. You are defying the bishop, and thus the church. Just as much as those yahoos you mention.
Most of them do so in ignorance. Can you say the same?
J
JRKH
Guest
I can only speak for myself here but…
At our NO most (but not all) stand during the Agnus Dei.
I cannot do this in all good conscience. Regardless of the Bishop or the GIRM.
This prayer drives me to my knees:
“Lamb of God who takes away the sins of the world, have mercy on us…”
As I said earlier, I can only speak for myself, but before the Lord I should be on my knees. If it comes to that, I would rather defy the Bishop than defy my God by failing to show Him the reverence He deserves.
The GIRM makes allowances for people to sit if they are unable to stand or kneel for “reasons of health, lack of space, the large number of people present, or some other good reason.”
I claim the last one.
James
A
Aramis
Guest
To SIT, not to “Choose my own posture because I am incapable of obeying the bishop.”
I just love the psychology of “Justification of disobedience”… take a rule that is very clear, misapply it…
The choice is to do the posture the bishop asks, or to sit. Kneeling, when the bishop has said to stand, is not a valid option. You do have the right to complain to the bishop about his choice, but not to disobey your bishop. Or to go to a different Church in union with rome (but then you have to obey their bishop’s instructions on the liturgy!)
You have the right to dissent all but the dogmas… but not to disobey even when in dissent.
J
JRKH
Guest
I appreciate your very clear and legalistic response. However I cannot agree.
From the CCC
1782 Man has the right to act in conscience and in freedom so as personally to make moral decisions. “He must not be forced to act contrary to his conscience. Nor must he be prevented from acting according to his conscience, especially in religious matters.”
I am faced with a very clear issue of conscience. I am asking for God’s mercy prior to recieving him in Holy Communion.
I choose a posture of more reverence to our Lord beause I am asking for his mercy.
As I must be judged by God and not by the Bishop I must choose that which brings me closer to God. If I am wrong, then God will judge me.
James
P
piusphilistine
Guest
Wow. You ignore the clear directions of God’s Church and instead choose what your ego is tellings you to do? The sad part is that God and His Son clearly direct you through their Church and Their Teaching Magisterium, yet you reject that for some sort of “private revelation.” That’s chilling to me. Well, that’s on you.
I think that’s why so many “traditional Catholics’” complaints are ignored – because they are just as liturgically abusive as the people they are whining about.
P
piusphilistine
Guest
That presumes a well-formed conscience. Anyone who rejects the direction of God through His Church for some sort of private revelation as you are suggesting is simply not there yet.
P
piusphilistine
Guest
Kneeling is not more reverential than standing or sitting – particularly when God is instructing another posture.
- Status