Rapture of the Church

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**Rapture Of The Church **
Before Christ returns to earth there will be an event known as the “rapture,” or “translation” of the church. The Scripture explains it in the following manner.

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

The Feast of Trumpets fell on the first day of the seventh month , a month which stood out in the religious year as the Sabbatical month that ushered in the last three annual feasts, namely, Trumpets, Atonment and Tabernacles. These feasts, which became known as “The High Holy Days,” marked the conclusion of the religious year and typify the conclusion and consummation of the plan of redemption. The number seven, which is woven into the Biblical calendar, represents in Scripture completion and termination. This meaning is accentuated in three feasts of the seventh month, since they completed the yearly cycle of sacrifices and harvests. The Feast of Trumpets heralded through the blowing of trumpets the final phase of the Jewish religious year which, as we shall see, typologically brought to completion God’s plan for the final disposition of sin and the inauguration of a new world.
 
excatholic, can you actually articulate your own opinion, or are you content with plagarizing, cutting, and pasting the hard work of other people into a forum that isn’t open you your patently unCatholic theology? Your posts belong in the Non-Catholic section, not within Apologetics, as this section is reserved for questions regarding the authentic Catholic faith, not spurious non-Catholic theological perspective.
 
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excatholic:
For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).
You disprove your own argument by your mindless quoting of Scripture. Look at the quote. “The Lord Himself will descend from heaven…***then ***we who are alive and remain will be caught up”. There is no pre-tribulational Rapture. There is only the Second Coming of Christ, which Catholics believe.
 
Excatholic,
The passage from 1Thess specifically says that we will be caught up at “the coming of the Lord” (the second coming). That has always been the Catholic teaching.

Why then do you preface the quote by saying that it will happen before the second coming? It makes no sense whatsoever that you ignore what the scripture plainly says and instead put forth a completely different idea.

Paul
 
This is the theology of dispensationalists that says that the church will not have to suffer the Great Tribulation before the second coming because Christ suffered on the cross for us, and that suffering was sufficient to save us from the suffering during the Tribulation. Catholic theology says that Christ’s suffering on the cross and ultimate victory through his suffering gives us the ability to face that suffering with joy knowing that as Christ has been through it himself and won, so shall we if we persevere in faith until the end. I think the whole concept of the “rapture” comes from an innate fear of suffering in human beings. And protestants will do what they do best…pick and choose scripture to support their cause no matter the fact that prior to the mid-1800s, no church ever taught this ludicrous fantasy.
 
In Numbers 10:1-6 we read 1And the Lord spoke to Moses, saying: 2 "Make two silver trumpets for yourself; you shall make them of hammered work; you shall use them for calling the congregation and for directing the movement of the camps. 3 When they blow both of them, all the congregation shall gather before you at the door of the tabernacle of meeting. 4 But if they blow only one, then the leaders, the heads of the divisions of Israel, shall gather to you. 5 When you sound the advance, the camps that lie on the east side shall then begin their journey. 6 When you sound the advance the second time, then the camps that lie on the south side shall begin their journey; they shall sound the call for them to begin their journeys. God used the trumpets to summon his people.

God’s people have never been appointed to wrath throughout the entire bible. The seven years of tribulation will see God’ wrath poured out upon the Earth. 1Thess. 5:9 For God did not appoint us to wrath, but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ, To deny the rapture would imply that we would endure wrath?

2Peter2 gives us some examples of how God does not subject his people to his wrath.

2Pet.2:5 and did not spare the ancient world, but saved Noah, one of eight people, a preacher of righteousness, bringing in the flood on the world of the ungodly; 6 and turning the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah into ashes, condemned them to destruction, making them an example to those who afterward would live ungodly; 7 and delivered righteous Lot, who was oppressed by the filthy conduct of the wicked

God spared these people why would he do any less for you? Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.

Friend the trumpet blew in the wilderness to call the Israelites to the Tabernacle. It will blow again in fulfillment of the last feast. We will be caught up and escape God’ wrath. 1 Thess.4:16 For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord.

Peace to Israel.
 
excatholic friend,

So you believe in the third coming of Christ? What are you trying to say here?

Pio
 
God spared these people why would he do any less for you? Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
God spares His children from His own wrath. But the wrath of the tribulation will be from Satan, at the hands of the anti-Christ. God does not promise to save us from all evil in this life, but in the next.
 
Why are you intelligent people still paying attention to this anti-Catholic, plagarizing, misinformed, and misguided soul…he is posting with the sole purpose of causing problems and upsetting all of you…look at all of his posts. They are all inflammatory. He offers no intelligent dialogue. Ignore him, so he will leave.
 
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dumspirospero:
Why are you intelligent people still paying attention to this anti-Catholic, plagarizing, misinformed, and misguided soul…
Lest someone else read this rubbish and be convinced.
 
I believe that there has been a definitive argument against the pretrib rapture view. It was written by David Currie and is called “Rapture: The End Times Error that Leaves the Bible Behind”. Currie taught the rapture for 25 years and authored a seminal thesis on the rapture while at an evangelical seminary and proves convincingly from the Bible that the rapture is a “doctrine of men”. Interestingly, both Currie and his classmates who studied the rapture at seminary are converts to Catholicism. I strongly urge Excatholic, and anyone else needing some excellent catechesis on what the Bible actually says about the rapture, to read Currie’s book. It was published in 2004.

By the way, even Dale Moody himself says of the subject “There is no more Biblically bankrupt doctrine than that of teh rapture.” Unbelievably, Tim LeHaye, David Jeremiah and others call Moody “a great theologian”. I have often wondered if they have ever read Dale Moody.
 
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dumspirospero:
Why are you intelligent people still paying attention to this anti-Catholic, plagarizing, misinformed, and misguided soul…he is posting with the sole purpose of causing problems and upsetting all of you…look at all of his posts. They are all inflammatory. He offers no intelligent dialogue. Ignore him, so he will leave.
Because it makes me feel like a cat playing with a ball of yarn. 😃
 
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hlgomez:
excatholic friend,

So you believe in the third coming of Christ? What are you trying to say here?

Pio
No
I believe in the Second Coming when he stands on the Mount. Of Olives and fights the enemy that is persecuting Israel. This is when he actually comes and sets foot on Earth. I believe he will appear in the sky and we will be called up with him to escape God’ wrath. No where in the Bible does it say that we will go through the wrath of God on Earth.
 
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excatholic:
No
I believe in the Second Coming when he stands on the Mount. Of Olives and fights the enemy that is persecuting Israel. This is when he actually comes and sets foot on Earth. I believe he will appear in the sky and we will be called up with him to escape God’ wrath. No where in the Bible does it say that we will go through the wrath of God on Earth.
So in other words, He comes from heaven to appear in the sky, but it isn’t a “coming” because He doesn’t set foot on the ground? I don’t get it. He obviously isn’t in heaven, so He had to “come” here to us. I mean at least that should count as a 1/2 coming, right? :hmmm:
 
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excatholic:
No where in the Bible does it say that we will go through the wrath of God on Earth.
Really?

Matthew 5:10-12
Blessed [are] they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.
Blessed are ye, when [men] shall revile you, and persecute [you], and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for my sake.
Rejoice, and be exceeding glad: for great [is] your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you.
The Church has always suffered tribulation to one degree or another. The history of the Catholic Church is a history of martyrdom. Catholics and Protestants are, at this very moment, being imprisoned, tortured and killed for their faith in many nations around the world. Are you saying that these are somehow not Christians because they are suffering wrath?

Also, your example of Noah being saved from the flood doesn’t fit your thesis. Noah was indeed saved from the flood, but he still had to build the ark and go through it. Noah and his family were not snatched away to some comfy waiting room while the world was destroyed by water. Noah, as a type, better fits the Catholic thesis - that though we pass through tribulation, if we are faithful to God’s commands we will ultimately be saved while those who ignore God’s commands will be lost.

All the best,
Paul
 
Homer (alias ex_catholic),

So it is 1/2 coming? err? Sounds like you borrow this heresy from 7th day adventists, or are you one of them?

Pio
 
Hi Ex,

Listen my friend…I used to believe this very thing & that it was something that the early church believed. that is patently not so…

I just returned to the faith about 2 1/2 years ago after a guy jumped my case, saying that we Catholics worship Mary, which is also patently not true.

I have since committed myself to the study of the faith & have found that most all of the stuff out Protestant brothers are preaching & teaching is no older than 500 years old, and MOST of it is much more recent than that. For instance, I found that the Rapture is actually a concept that came over from England in the Schofield reference (forgive me if I’ve misspelled that.) Bible. That occurred about 150 years ago (more or less) and from literature that I’ve found (some in Catholic Answers materials) that the early church (The real NT church , if you will) did not believe this at all.

I realize that you probably had some reasons for departing from the Church. I did too… But I have discovered that I was terribly wrong & that despite their very good intentions (in most cases) I was taught wrong for over 35 years.

I am committed to the truth. I feel that if something is true (I believe in objective truth) then when we discover it we have a moral obligation to obey that truth. If someone could show me that the Catholic faith is false, I would be in the pew beside them the very next Sunday, but in 2 1/2 years no one has even come close. In fact, in the last year or so God has used me to bring a few guys into the Catholic faith. One of them was a really anti-Catholic crusader type who now loves nothing better than shgaring his faith with Protestants he talks to. He’s very cool about it and I love to just sit there and watch him do his thing. He’s a precious character that is out to win souls.

Anyway, I understand your zeal to evangelize “us Catholics”, but I also have seen that God is doing a great work in His church a& more &more of us are coming home to the faith as well as guys like Scott Hahn who find the Catholic truths right there in their studies of the bible & the history of the faith. Most of the allegations I’ve heard from non-Catholics have been based on terrible lack of knowlege & understanding. Most of which could be easily cured by simply reading the Catechism of the Catholic Church. We have nothing to hide. We are human, just like everyone else, so we get smacked around by the enemy from time, but the gates of Hell have not & will not prevail against the church.

Agree or not… we love you and if you want to dialog in all honesty , we will always be happy to share with you. Just listen to the Holy Spirit and remain willing to see & acknowlege the truth when it comes your way. To quote a character in one of my favorite Catholic novels, “This Catholic stuff is all true…”.

May the Lord bless and keep you.
We’ll keep the light on for ya…
 
excatholic homer,

You use Noah as an example albeit in that example the good guys were “left behind”. hmmm… Maybe you better study a little more. :hmmm:
 
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excatholic:
No
I believe in the Second Coming when he stands on the Mount. Of Olives and fights the enemy that is persecuting Israel. This is when he actually comes and sets foot on Earth. I believe he will appear in the sky and we will be called up with him to escape God’ wrath. No where in the Bible does it say that we will go through the wrath of God on Earth.
Gee Excatholic I wonder where you would be now if you would have spent as much time studing your Ex faith as you are defending the rapture.

Also by calling yourself excatholic does that appeal to your fellow protestants and give them the opinion that you are all knowing of the Catholic faith?
 
Little Mary:
excatholic homer,

You use Noah as an example albeit in that example the good guys were “left behind”. hmmm… Maybe you better study a little more. :hmmm:
Friend Noah escaped the wrath of the flood.
 
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