Rapture of the Church

  • Thread starter Thread starter excatholic
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
40.png
PaulDupre:
Really?

Matthew 5:10-12

The Church has always suffered tribulation to one degree or another. The history of the Catholic Church is a history of martyrdom. Catholics and Protestants are, at this very moment, being imprisoned, tortured and killed for their faith in many nations around the world. Are you saying that these are somehow not Christians because they are suffering wrath?

Also, your example of Noah being saved from the flood doesn’t fit your thesis. Noah was indeed saved from the flood, but he still had to build the ark and go through it. Noah and his family were not snatched away to some comfy waiting room while the world was destroyed by water. Noah, as a type, better fits the Catholic thesis - that though we pass through tribulation, if we are faithful to God’s commands we will ultimately be saved while those who ignore God’s commands will be lost.

All the best,
Paul
Click to expand...
Friend persecution is far different than wrath. Persecution is from the world and the wrath will be from God.
 
Dr. Colossus:
God spares His children from His own wrath. But the wrath of the tribulation will be from Satan, at the hands of the anti-Christ. God does not promise to save us from all evil in this life, but in the next.
Click to expand...
Where did you find this (the wrath of the tribulation will be from Satan) in the Bible?
 
excatholic, at one time I mistakenly thought the rapture theories to be true. Having said that, please answe these questions:

Doesn’t it bother you that the idea of a separate rapture didn’t even appear in christian theology until the 1800’s?

Doesn’t it further bother you that most of the mainline protestant denominations don’t agree with the rapture teaching? Sure, many christians of various denominations may say they believe in the rapture because they are misinformed about what their church actually teaches. I challenge you to research this. You’'ll be surprised.

Doesn’t it bother you that the idea of a secret rapture came from a cult of heretics who falsely preached that they knew the exact date of the second coming and then changed their message when it didn’t happen?

Read Paul Thigpen’s “Rapture Trap”. If you are vehemently anti-catholic, you can skip the introduction and go right to the parts where he lays out methodically, following scripture, that you are mistaken. It’s worth your time. I am assuming that since you are coming to this site that you are still somewhat drawn to the catholic faith or have unanswered questions. Otherwise, you wouldn’t be taking up your valuable time.
 
40.png
Apologia100:
excatholic, can you actually articulate your own opinion, or are you content with plagarizing, cutting, and pasting the hard work of other people into a forum that isn’t open you your patently unCatholic theology? Your posts belong in the Non-Catholic section, not within Apologetics, as this section is reserved for questions regarding the authentic Catholic faith, not spurious non-Catholic theological perspective.
Click to expand...
Friend I would suggest you look up the word apologetics in the dictionary. Here is a definition from Webster’s on line. A systematic argumentative discourse in defense (as of a doctrine). The link did say apologetics didn’t it?
 
40.png
excatholic:
Where did you find this (the wrath of the tribulation will be from Satan) in the Bible?
Click to expand...
Not all the wrath will be from Satan (after all, God will judge the world at this time as well). However, during the Great Tribulation, Satan will have power to afflict, and it will affect all the inhabitants of the earth. Revelation specifically mentions the faithful as suffering this:

:bible1: “The beast was given a mouth uttering proud boasts and blasphemies, and it was given authority to act for forty-two months. It opened its mouth to utter blasphemies against God, blaspheming his name and his dwelling and those who dwell in heaven. It was also allowed to wage war against the holy ones and conquer them, and it was granted authority over every tribe, people, tongue, and nation. All the inhabitants of the earth will worship it, all whose names were not written from the foundation of the world in the book of life, which belongs to the Lamb who was slain. Whoever has ears ought to hear these words. Anyone destined for captivity goes into captivity. Anyone destined to be slain by the sword shall be slain by the sword. Such is the faithful endurance of the holy ones.” Revelation 13:5-10 (emphasis mine)
 
Oh yes, thanks for enlightening me! I didn’t realize that challenging a person’s viewpoint by asking questions wasn’t allowed in apologetics. That makes for a very difficult discourse of ideas. I fail to see how your original post falls under the category of “apologetics” as well.

I’ll also assume that since you either cannot or will not answer my questions that you have no answers.
 
40.png
excatholic:
Friend Noah escaped the wrath of the flood.
Click to expand...
No, he was left behind to repopulate earth, to pick up the pieces if you will. In this case, those who lacked righteousness were taken away.

Think about it.
 
1Thes4:16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul’s language here is so straightforward and free from figurative speech that there is no missing his intent; "Either these details must be received by us as a matter of practical expectation, or we must set aside the Apostle as one divinely empowered to teach the Church.
These scriptures pertain to a rapture of the Messiah’ Church, if you are a born agin Catholic and you are alive to see this event hang on because you are going to meet Christ in the clouds. This is a separate event from his second coming that is described in Zec.14.
 
excatholic said:
1Thes4:16For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first. 17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And thus we shall always be with the Lord. 18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.

Paul’s language here is so straightforward and free from figurative speech that there is no missing his intent; "Either these details must be received by us as a matter of practical expectation, or we must set aside the Apostle as one divinely empowered to teach the Church.
These scriptures pertain to a rapture of the Messiah’ Church, if you are a born agin Catholic and you are alive to see this event hang on because you are going to meet Christ in the clouds. This is a separate event from his second coming that is described in Zec.14.
Click to expand...

Yes, you are talking about the second coming. Notice, there is nothing about people being “Left Behind” in those verses.
 
I don’t think ex-catholic understands that historical Christianity has always believed that those who are the Lord’s will indeed be caught up in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air, but that happens at the second coming, not at some time prior to the great tribulation. The bible passages he cites all refer to the Lord’s coming. But SDAs read the bible through a filter.

The deceiving leaders in the SDA church and other anti-Christians tell their followers that historic Christians don’t believe these bible passages at all. So ex-catholic, not knowing any better, thinks he has to come here and point out to us something we already believe. He obviously refuses to read our responses, because he keeps making the same charges even after he has been shown his error.

It can be intensely frustrating to communicate with a cultist.
Paul
 
Excatholic…I have a nephew who turned away from Catholicism to the morman faith…when he argues his faith there is very little substance to his arguments just warnings about what will be and why Catholics will not be “raptured up to the heavens”. Not to sound disrespectful but at times it seems as if you think God is an alien from Planet X.
 
Actually, the Mormons do think their god is an alien from planet X.
 
40.png
PaulDupre:
Excatholic,
The passage from 1Thess specifically says that we will be caught up at “the coming of the Lord” (the second coming). That has always been the Catholic teaching.

Why then do you preface the quote by saying that it will happen before the second coming? It makes no sense whatsoever that you ignore what the scripture plainly says and instead put forth a completely different idea.

Paul
Click to expand...
The second coming is when he comes back to earth. The scripture says we will meet him in the air. Zec.14 talks about his return to Earth.
 
40.png
excatholic:
The second coming is when he comes back to earth. The scripture says we will meet him in the air. Zec.14 talks about his return to Earth.
Click to expand...
Well the dead rist first and we then all meet. The Bible says this happens on a particular day the last day.
John 6:39 "This is the will of Him who sent Me, that of (56) all that He has given Me I (57) lose nothing, but (58) raise it up on the last day.
40 “For this is the will of My Father, that everyone who (59) beholds the Son and (60) believes in Him will have eternal life, and I Myself will (61) raise him up on the last day.”
Click to expand...
You have broken up the events where scripture does not break the events down. There is no third coming of christ in scripture anywhere despite your overactive imagination.
 
excatholic said:
**Rapture Of The Church **
Before Christ returns to earth there will be an event known as the “rapture,” or “translation” of the church. The Scripture explains it in the following manner.

But we do not want you to be uninformed, brothers and sisters, about those who have died, so that you may not grieve as others do who have no hope. For since we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so, through Jesus, God will bring with him those who have died. For this we declare to you by the Word of the Lord, that we who are alive and remain until the coming of the Lord, will by no means precede those who have died. For the Lord Himself, with a shout, with the archangel’s call and with the sound of God’s trumpet, will descend from heaven, and the dead in Christ will rise first. Then we who are alive and remain will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air; and so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words (1 Thessalonians 4:13-18).

The Feast of Trumpets fell on the first day of the seventh month , a month which stood out in the religious year as the Sabbatical month that ushered in the last three annual feasts, namely, Trumpets, Atonment and Tabernacles. These feasts, which became known as “The High Holy Days,” marked the conclusion of the religious year and typify the conclusion and consummation of the plan of redemption. The number seven, which is woven into the Biblical calendar, represents in Scripture completion and termination. This meaning is accentuated in three feasts of the seventh month, since they completed the yearly cycle of sacrifices and harvests. The Feast of Trumpets heralded through the blowing of trumpets the final phase of the Jewish religious year which, as we shall see, typologically brought to completion God’s plan for the final disposition of sin and the inauguration of a new world.
Click to expand...

Hi Ex,
I am not sure of your position. Is it possible for you to summarise the events as you see them happening from now until the end explanation in the Holy Scripture?
I would like to join in the thread but it appears to me to contain a segment but the position of the segment is not stated to my understanding.
Christ be with you
walk in love
edwinG
 
40.png
Vincent:
Homer probably got this from Lambert Dolphin’s website.
Click to expand...
Vincent is this what your catholic upbring has taught you, to call others names? Why would I want to identify with the likes of you. Real Christ like friend!.
 
40.png
Maccabees:
Well the dead rist first and we then all meet. The Bible says this happens on a particular day the last day.
You have broken up the events where scripture does not break the events down. There is no third coming of christ in scripture anywhere despite your overactive imagination.
Click to expand...
You are right there is no third coming of the Messiah only a second coming. The Rapture takes place above the earth in the clouds.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top