RAPTURE the end times prophecy that leaves the bible behind

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I may be here. Not sure. Take care though… I need to go to sleep anyways 🙂
 
See what you think of Dr. Pitre’s free study on the Destruction of the Temple too please.
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RAPTURE the end times prophecy that leaves the bible behind Sacred Scripture
Bre6785. I think earlier I said I would post Dr. Pitre’s free talk on the “Destruction of the Temple and the End of the World” (You now have to sign up for it but it is free) Go to . . . . Proclaiming the Kingdom: The Gospel of Matthew (Here is the link) . Then on the same page you will see . . . . A Ten Lesson Audio Bible Study Course And below this you will see “Lessons”. . Then go down to . . . . The Destruction of the Temple and the End of the World: Matthew Chapters 23-2…
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I would be interested in your (name removed by moderator)ut.
 
Well, I haven’t gone to sleep yet, but I don’t have enough time to listen now. I’ll answer one thing real quickly though. When Jesus talks about the destruction of the temple on the Mount of Olives, he never said “end of the world”. It’s end of the “aeon”. Age. End of the age.

And it’s what I’ve been trying to say here. The age in question is the old covenant. The whole new testament is replete with this, when it talks about Torah signs not being valid. It’s not just about Paul railing against circumcision… it’s everything that separated Jews and Gentiles (not morals, but these racial specific covenant signs, which also includes the old temple practices).
 
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As to the possibility of the Temple being rebuilt, I’m keeping my eye out on this site from “The Temple Institute” in Jerusalem. They’ve made all of the temple items according to Biblical standards to be used in a future temple and they’re selecting and training priests for temple service. They only say they are waiting on God as to the actual rebuilding.


In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Paul says that the antichrist will seat himself in the Temple proclaiming himself to be God. This is something Nero did not do. So this is something possibly to be in the future.
 
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Apparently I shouldn’t have gone to bed so early last night!😉 I guess my set back is this in a nutshell, when I read this book, I was absolutely floored with the revelation (I believed while reading) that “all these things” that the rapture says has to happen, already happened, and the Catholic Church history has always known it. And we have been living in the age of Jesus reign (heaven on earth) in the Catholic church every since 70ad. If its true that “all the signs” are still to come, hence the rapturist 2000 year jump. how the heck do I tell them they are wrong, because essentially, without the meeting Jesus in the sky part, we believe the same exact events to be future events!
 
Autumn-Smoke said:
In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Paul says that the antichrist will seat himself in the Temple proclaiming himself to be God. This is something Nero did not do. So this is something possibly to be in the future.
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The early church fathers associated it with Rome occupying the religious places (and probably setting up standards or depictions of Caesar…which were idols of sorts).

Jerome:
“it may be understood of the statue of Caesar, which Pilate set up in the temple; or of the equestrian statue of Adrian, which stood to the present time in the very Holy of Holies. For, according to the Old Scripture, an idol is called ‘abomination;’ “of desolation” is added, because the idol was set up in the desolated and deserted temple.”

Augustine:
“Luke, to show that the abomination spoken of by Daniel will take place when Jerusalem is captured, recalls these words of the Lord in the same context: When you shall see Jerusalem compassed about with an army, then know that the desolation thereof is at hand. For Luke very clearly bears witness that the prophecy of Daniel was fulfilled when Jerusalem was overthrown.”

St. Athanasius:
“And when He Who spake unto Moses, the Word of the Father, appeared in the end of the world, He also gave this commandment, saying, “But when they persecute you in this city, flee ye into another” [Matt. 10:23]; and shortly after He says, “When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place (whoso readeth, let him understand); then let them which be in Judea flee into the mountains: let him which is on the housetop not come down to take any thing out of his house: neither let him which is in the field return back to take his clothes” [Matt. 24:15]. Knowing these things, the Saints regulated their conduct accordingly.”

Chrysostom:
“Or because he who had desolated the city and the temple, placed his statue within the temple.” For He brought in also a prophecy, to confirm their desolation, saying, “But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place, let him that readeth understand.” He referred them to Daniel. And by “abomination” He meaneth the statue of him who then took the city, which he who desolated the city and the temple placed within the temple, wherefore Christ calleth it, “of desolation.” Moreover, in order that they might learn that these things will be while some of them are alive, therefore He said, “When ye see the abomination of desolation.” (Of Matthew 24:1,2)

edit: This isn’t to say the church fathers are always right, but they’re great teachers, of course… and closer to this time period… and living in the time that celebrate Christianity’s first victory even over Rome. I think they had a unique appreciation of what the meaning of the Church was vs the Temple, in the context of history.
 
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Bre6785 . . .
all these things” that the rapture says has to happen, already happened . . .
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There is going to be NO RAPTURE though Bre6785.

No “rapture” unless you assert “The Rapture” means the “Second Coming of Jesus” in all His glory.

No “rapture” unless somebody means Jesus’ Second Coming at the end of the world for the Final General Judgment.

Otherwise there will never be a “rapture”.

The “rapture” is a tradition of men that makes void the word of God . . . at least every “rapture” variant that I have ever seen.
 
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Autumn-Smoke . . . .
In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Paul says that the antichrist will seat himself in the Temple proclaiming himself to be God.
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True enough. But remember, the word “antchrist” is not even used ANYWHERE in 2nd Thessalonians.

Don’t get me wrong, I think you are correct about “the man of sin” or “the man of lawlessness” in 2nd Thessalonians 2:3, being “the antichrist”.

But people like you and I have been wrong enough times, where you must proceed with caution (that’s all).
2nd THESSALONIANS 2:1-12 1 Now concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our assembling to meet him, we beg you, brethren, 2 not to be quickly shaken in mind or excited, either by spirit or by word, or by letter purporting to be from us, to the effect that the day of the Lord has come. 3 Let no one deceive you in any way; for that day will not come, unless the rebellion comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of perdition, 4 who opposes and exalts himself against every so-called god or object of worship, so that he takes his seat in the temple of God, proclaiming himself to be God. 5 Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you this? 6 And you know what is restraining him now so that he may be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only he who now restrains it will do so until he is out of the way.[d] 8 And then the lawless one will be revealed, and the Lord Jesus will slay him with the breath of his mouth and destroy him by his appearing and his coming. 9 The coming of the lawless one by the activity of Satan will be with all power and with pretended signs and wonders, 10 and with all wicked deception for those who are to perish, because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. 11 Therefore God sends upon them a strong delusion, to make them believe what is false, 12 so that all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
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Autumn-Smoke . . .
In 2 Thessalonians 2:4, Paul says that the antichrist will seat himself in the Temple proclaiming himself to be God. This is something Nero did not do.
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Emphasis mine.

Yes but remember St. John says there are MANY antichrists. They too, have not seated themselves upon the cathedra or seat in the Temple either (yet they are still in some sense “antichrists”–St. John says so).

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1st JOHN 2:18-25 18 Children, it is the last hour; and as you have heard that antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have come; therefore we know that it is the last hour. 19 They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us. 20 But you have been anointed by the Holy One, and you all know. 21 I write to you, not because you do not know the truth, but because you know it, and know that no lie is of the truth. 22 Who is the liar but he who denies that Jesus is the Christ? This is the antichrist, he who denies the Father and the Son. 23 No one who denies the Son has the Father. He who confesses the Son has the Father also. 24 Let what you heard from the beginning abide in you. If what you heard from the beginning abides in you, then you will abide in the Son and in the Father. 25 And this is what he has promised us, eternal life.
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Emphasis mine.
 
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So, because the new temple is not that of the old testament, but that of the new (Catholic church) the lawless one would set himself up there? I know the SSPX believe this to be. Hence their dispute with Vatican II, They believe this was the set up of the delusion to make way for anti Christ (dare I say a pope) because in losing tradition, we no longer know our religion as it was meant to be known. I’m know I’m coming at thus from every which way, but I feel like in making it clear that Mother church holds truth, where she stands even now, you would be speaking tho both protestants and, SSPX who believe they are above The Roman pontificate… and are otherwise protestant themselves?..
 
Bre6785 . . .
how the heck do I tell (my "rapture-asserting friends) them they are wrong, because essentially, without the meeting Jesus in the sky part, we believe the same exact events to be future events!
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(Parenthesis mine for context)

You may choose NOT to tell them they are “wrong”. At least initially.

I might just emphasize the things they get “right”.

Ask them about the Bible verses they are bringing into the discussion.

Then you can unpack those verses with them (don’t worry. None of them teach “the rapture” or a lot of the ADDITIONS that LaHaye and others make to Scripture with their rapture claims).
 
Bre6785 . . .
So, because the new temple is not that of the old testament, but that of the new (Catholic church) the lawless one would set himself up there?
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I don’t know. Desmond Birch in his book gives references from the Fathers on this issue (but it has been a few years since I read Birch’s book).

I DO KNOW this though.

If anyone were to “seat” themselves in the manner I think you are talking about, they would be RESTRAINED from officially teaching error.

(“We declare, define, and pronounce . . . .”)

It can’t happen. You can count on that.
 
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Just to add, I think the more literal translation of that famous line might be more apt: The gates of HADES/Death shall not prevail. The Church will always have a place in the world.

Although I do think there are “many antichrists”, as well as many “tribulations” that we experience from time to time. Just the 20th century alone is testament to that.
 
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Yes, we’re supposed to take up our cross, but I meant exactly animal sacrifices. And it’s exactly what some Jews want to do.

In any case, I get the feeling God lets Muslims overrun these places… just to be a thorn in people’s sides. Because Christians don’t have the stamina to stand firm and stop this blasphemy themselves.

That IS the prophecy of Ishmael in a way…

“He shall be a wild ass of a man,
his hand against everyone,
and everyone’s hand against him;
Alongside all his kindred
shall he encamp.” -Gen 16:12
 
I don’t know why, but one of my posts is “pending approval”. I certainly didn’t say anything obscene… not sure why it did that.

I’ll try to say it again: Whatever you think, I’m convinced that God has allowed Islam to control this area. Christians don’t have the stamina to stop blasphemies the way they do. Sadly. They used to.

It kind of fulfills the prophecy of Ishmael… he is to be a thorn in everyone’s side:

He shall be a wild ass of a man,
his hand against everyone,
and everyone’s hand against him;
Alongside all his kindred
shall he encamp. - Gen 16:12
 
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