Rapture?

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For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord." - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Now protestants believe this as the rapture,
So what else does this passage mean then if not a rapture?
 
This is the 2nd Coming. The righteous will be called up to meet the King as He descends down, for He “will return in the same way as you have seen him going into heaven”.

Think of the scene when Jesus entered Jerusalem in Matthew chapter 21. The Jews were so excited to greet Jesus during His triumphant entry into Jerusalem, that they ran out to greet him and return to Jerusalem in glory with Him.

This is what is happening in Thessalonians. Not the Rapture, but the 2nd Coming.
 
The problem with the Protestant doctrine of the Rapture is not with the faithful being caught up to join the Lord at His coming - it’s that they separate the event from the Second Coming - proclaiming a multi-phased “end of the world.”
 
1 Thessalonians 4:13-17

13 For if we believe that Jesus died, and rose again; even so them who have slept through Jesus, will God bring with him. 14For this we say unto you in the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who remain unto the coming of the Lord, shall not prevent them who have slept. 15 For the Lord himself shall come down from heaven with commandment, and with the voice of an archangel, and with the trumpet of God: and the dead who are in Christ, shall rise first. 16 Then we who are alive, who are left, shall be taken up together with them in the clouds to meet Christ, into the air, and so shall we be always with the Lord. 17Wherefore, comfort ye one another with these words.

1 Corinthians 15:51-55
**
51 Behold, I tell you a mystery. We shall not all fall asleep, but we will all be changed, 52 in an instant, in the blink of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. 53 For that which is corruptible must clothe itself with incorruptibility, and that which is mortal must clothe itself with immortality. 54 And when this which is corruptible clothes itself with incorruptibility and this which is mortal clothes itself with immortality, then the word that is written shall come about: “Death is swallowed up in victory.55 Where, O death, is your victory? Where, O death, is your sting?”**

Matthew 24:29-31

29 And immediately after the tribulation of those days, the sun shall be darkened and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of heaven shall be moved: 30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all tribes of the earth mourn: and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with much power and majesty.31 And he shall send his angels with a trumpet, and a great voice: and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the farthest parts of the heavens to the utmost bounds of them.

These three passages are talking about the same event, that is the second coming of Christ. There a several similarities in the descriptions in these passages: the trumpet sounding, the elect being gathered, the Lord and the angel coming down. And each passage provides a unique perspective with additional information. Such as the passage in Matthew’s gospel where it says “And immediately after the tribulation of those days” so we know these events will occur AFTER the tribulation, not before and not in the middle. So the rapture does not occur years before the second coming, it occurs in conjunction with the second coming.
 
Many mainstream Protestants do not believe in the rapture either, it is mostly evangelical Christians.
 
I notice in Matthew 24:29-31, that the faithful will gather at the sound (of a trumpet) from heaven. Just two verses before this, Matthew 24:27, Jesus said, “For as the lightning comes from the east and shines as far as the west, so will be the coming of the Son of man”. Thus, the “secret rapture” is a myth - wishful thinking by modern man.

There is a similarity here to Pentecost, when the devout Jews from all nations gathered at the sound “like a rushing wind” from heaven (Acts 2:5-6).
 
Many mainstream Protestants do not believe in the rapture either, it is mostly evangelical Christians.
Naw, everybody believes in the rapture. Everybody. But some of them think its separate from the 2nd Coming of Jesus.
 
It will be like the days of Noah, the evil will be taken away first. Not taken away in a good way obviously. The ones who are left and the ones who died in Christ will be gathered on earth to see Jesus come in glory.
youtube.com/watch?v=iYdC33Ulh4w
 
For the Lord himself will descend from heaven with a cry of command, with the archangel’s call, and with the sound of the trumpet of God. And the dead in Christ will rise first; then we who are alive, who are left, shall be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air; and so we shall always be with the Lord." - 1 Thessalonians 4:16-17

Now protestants believe this as the rapture,
So what else does this passage mean then if not a rapture?
Point of order, Mr. Chairman! Protestants don’t believe this is the rapture. Protestants correctly believe there is no such thing as a rapture. Dispensationalists believe in a rapture.

The concept was first floated by Doddridge and Hill in the 3rd and 4th decades of the 18th century. It eventually reached full maturity in the person of John Nelson Darby the father of dispensational (french for heretical) theology. No thinking “Protestant” (Lutheran, Anglican, Methodist, Presbyterian) would buy off on the concept which is: There will be a secret second coming of Jesus who will “rapture up” the faithful. He will then return a 3rd time in glory for all to see.

There is no biblical support for this except through the pirating of 1st Thess, and the bending of this single verse, written long after Christ’s resurrection, to support it. It is simply unbiblical hoo-har.

Now, I am not so naive as to fail to understand the need for the concept within the realm of fundamental/evangelical theology. To wit: If one is saved, there is no need for judgment. Right? Makes sense. One has accepted Jesus as savior and is going to heaven regardless of sins committed post “sinner’s prayer” salvific experience. Therefore, being around during the “Great White Throne” judgment (cf. Mt. 25) is a conundrum that must be dealt with, and the best way to deal with it is to not be there when it takes place.

The answer: SIMPLE. Jesus raptures you up before the judgment so all those people being judged aren’t the believers. Nice and neat! I like it! “In event of rapture, unfortunately, this car will be manned.” (to paraphrase the famous bumper sticker.)

It’s all very simple when you wrap your arms around it! Unfortunately it is, in the immortal words of Col. Sherman Potter: “Horse Hockey”
 
My understanding, speaking as a former non-denominational Christian who read a lot of End Times literature, is that there are 3 theories of the Rapture. To understand them, you have to know about the Tribulation.

(BTW, I am explaining these as I have read or heard them, I am not advocating them.)

The Tribulation is the 7 year period that the Antichrist will initiate when he makes a covenant with Israel. Why 7 years?

“And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate. [Dan. 9:27]”

(It takes a real leap in time to get to this “one week” at the end of time, when verse 26 speaks of the cutting off of the Messiah.)

So here are the 3 theories:

PreTrib Rapture: This is what all the “Left Behind” books teach. There will come a day when “true Christians” will disappear “in the twinkling of an eye [1 Cor. 15:52]” The next words of the verse are “at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.” However that doesn’t stop Hal Lindsay and others from saying this happens before the Tribulation. The belief here is that Christians (“true Christians”) will not go through the Rapture, because for some reason they are saved from it. I can’t remember the verse, but somehow it applies to the last generation of Christians and not obviously to the saints and martyrs of the past 1900+ years. (That’s because so many of the saints and martyrs are Catholic, and Catholics aren’t “true Christians” because they “worship” Mary and the Pope, etc. I don’t think they’ve come out and said that, but I’m putting several ideas together. Like they do.)

MidTrib Rapture: Basically, since Dan. 9:27 above states that since the Antichrist is going to desecrate the Temple after 3 1/2 years (for context, see below), that will be the time of the “falling away.” This is central:

“Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering together unto him,
That ye be not soon shaken in mind, or be troubled, neither by spirit, nor by word, nor by letter as from us, as that the day of Christ is at hand.
Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition;
Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, shewing himself that he is God.
Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things?
And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time.
For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way.
And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his coming:” [2 Thes. 2:1-8])

This desecration of the Temple (the abomination of desolation) is when the Antichrist reveals himself as such. Up until then, he has deceived the world (except the preTrib Rapturists). The midTribbers will be the ones who “taken out of the way,” in other words true Christians would have the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit is the one “who now letteth.” A lot of this comes from taking all these verses of the End Times and putting them all together into one context, and then moving the pieces around. I’m not saying this in disrespect to Scripture, I am pointing out that all this “placing into context” is very subjective on the parts of the interpreters. (And also, the Temple in Jerusalem must be rebuilt.)

Finally, there is the PostTrib Rapture. I feel pretty sure that this is the correct interpretation. It is the Second Coming. “For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:” [1 Thes. 4:16]

Oddly, most of the End Times interpreters I have read are fervent preTrib Rapturists. It seems counter-intuitive, and it takes some real bending of context to believe that 7 years PRIOR to the Second Coming of Christ, He will return and lift the “true” Christians up and away from tribulation, and then come again for what would amount to a Third Coming.
 
The Rapture Trap by Paul Thigpen is actually the book that sealed my decision to become RC. It is well written a does an excellent job of explaning the second coming.
The writings of a few Evangelical writers make for good drama and line their pockets with millions of dollars. What really surprises me is Pat Robertson actually doesn’t hold to the pre-trib rapture belief.
 
Point of order, Mr. Chairman! Protestants don’t believe this is the rapture. Protestants correctly believe there is no such thing as a rapture. Dispensationalists believe in a rapture.
What are you talking about? :confused: First, “dispensationalists” are a subset of Protestants. Second, the “Left Behind” book and movie series is about the rapture, and was written by Protestants.

But I agree with you that the “Left Behind” scenario is not a proper reading of the Bible, and that it is contrary to the 1800-or-so years of Christian tradition that preceded it.
 
My understanding, speaking as a former non-denominational Christian who read a lot of End Times literature, is that there are 3 theories of the Rapture.
There’s also the Pre-Wrath theory popularized by Robert VanKampen, which avoids the pitfalls inherent in the XX-trib theories. See prewrathrapture.com

The original Protestants, Lutherans that is, reject all four of those views. From the beginning they adopted the Catholic view that there will not be a specific seven-year capital-T Tribulation.
 
Being a formerly poorly chatechized R. Catholic, I swallowed a lot of Rapture teachings of my Protestant brothers and sisters. I read the Left Behind series, more as fun fiction than serious Bible teaching. I read the Bible, as I always had on my own. Reading it on my own I concluded that the “rapture” must be the second coming and pretrib or at least mid-trib (I got that from reading Revelation and the saints in white that suddenly appeared out of the tribulation.)

It was when I was formerly educated in the Catholic Seminary that I learned a great deal about scriptures and Sacred Tradition (not tradition with the lower case t). For you who may not know, when Catholics speak of following Tradition it only refers to Sacred Tradition, which means what was taught and done by the apostles up until the death of the last apostle John. This also is found in scripture, 2 Thes.; 15 “Therefore, brothers, stand firm and hold fast to the traditions that you were taught, either by an oral statement or by a letter or ours.” Since Sacred Scripture was only in the process of being written and there was no printing press, this is how the word of the Lord was taught, by mouth. Not everything that the Lord said, or was being taught was included in the Scriptures and the Bible never declares it as the only rule of law for Christians, but Sacred Tradition is to be included.

Back to the Rapture. Anyway, I was taught that in Jewish tradition if a guest of importance was expected at your home, it was considered very rude to wait for them to arrive. You were always expected to go out on the road to meet them and accompany them back with you to your home. This is obviously not done today, and so those that read scripture without relying on the guidance of the Church that put the Bible together, risk misinterpreting it and it’s meaning and often do. Yes, the dead in Christ shall rise first followed by the true Christians, we will all meet Him in the air and accompany the most wonderful dignitary of all back to our home (Earth) where He will have the final judgement. The thousand year reign has already been taking place and will continue until the “time of the Gentiles” is fulfilled. (we don’t know when that will be, but it’s looking soon). A thousand years to the jews had a special meaning. It meant a period of time that was so long that you, nor your children, nor your children’s children will be around to see it. ( It did not mean a literal thousand years as is so often thought.) Then will the blinders be removed from the eyes of the Jews that rejected the Messiah and they will come into the fold of Christ also. What a glorious time that will be!

There will be nothing secret about this next coming of Christ! Praise God!
 
You mean that after the Rapture, we Catholics will have the field to ourselves?? No more Jack Chick leaflets! No Ian Paisley’s? No more "Catholics worship Mary / Icons / Paintings / Statues?

Roll on Rapture!
 
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