RC Church becoming more Eastern?

[Seamus_L]

And the book was written in 1957.

 

[Alexander_Roman]

If you are suggesting that wisdom existed prior to Vatican II, I agree!

Alex

 

[angelic06]

It was chanted/sung all the way through, very difficult to follow as the meter and rhythm of the songs was not regular, incense abounded, the priest chanted really, really, really fast and I could scarcely follow what he …

This is the way the Latin Church is supposed to be as well, except we were not altogether faithful in implementing the desires of the VII fathers, which desired the Mass to be chanted as much as possible.

When I went from attending an Anglican Use Mass to attending our occasional Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy in San Antonio, I got used to it pretty quickly and fairly well…partially because I was used to the Divine Liturgy/Mass being chanted and sung, almost entirely, from beginning to end, in addition to attending Mass with incense.

 

[Vico]

angelic06,

I have been to the 1955 and 1962 Solemn High Mass like that. However, there is also a Low Mass which is not like it with the chanting and incense.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I’ll probably be going back to give it a second shot. But I have to say, it was a touch overwhelming and TOUGH to follow!

This is the way the Latin Church is supposed to be as well, except we were not altogether faithful in implementing the desires of the VII fathers, which desired the Mass to be chanted as much as possible.

When I went from attending an Anglican Use Mass to attending our occasional Byzantine Catholic Divine Liturgy in San Antonio, I got used to it pretty quickly and fairly well…partially because I was used to the Divine Liturgy/Mass being chanted and sung, almost entirely, from beginning to end, in addition to attending Mass with incense.

 

[Bluegoat]

I’ll probably be going back to give it a second shot. But I have to say, it was a touch overwhelming and TOUGH to follow!

might be worthwhile to find a text of the liturgy to take a look at before you go again, or watch one at your leisure on youtube.

You could always try going to Vespers instead of another DL too - I’ve never been but a good friend of mine likes it so much she goes regularly, though she isn’t Orthodox.

 

[Seamus_L]

Anyone else catch the delicious irony in a thread titled "RC Church becoming more Eastern ? while below it we find another thread titled How can we “Delatinize” parishes.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I hate the thought of “de-Latinizing” parishes. The problem isn’t that the Mass is “too Latin” in the States! The problem is that it’s too Protestant and has turned too far from its roots in the traditional Mass. I’d like to see the Mass stay in English, but with more dignified and exalted verbage more akin to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer. Also, the priest needs to start facing the altar again, the people need to practice the traditional gestures of piety (i.e. bowing, pounding the chest, crossing themselves at the name of Christ or the Theotokos), INCENSE needs to return en force! The whole thing needs to be more sacred. I wish they’d throw in some Latin like the agnus dei or the pater noster, anything. They just need to get back to fundamentals.

Anyone else catch the delicious irony in a thread titled "RC Church becoming more Eastern ? while below it we find another thread titled How can we “Delatinize” parishes.

 

[Bluegoat]

I hate the thought of “de-Latinizing” parishes. The problem isn’t that the Mass is “too Latin” in the States! The problem is that it’s too Protestant and has turned too far from its roots in the traditional Mass. I’d like to see the Mass stay in English, but with more dignified and exalted verbage more akin to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer. Also, the priest needs to start facing the altar again, the people need to practice the traditional gestures of piety (i.e. bowing, pounding the chest, crossing themselves at the name of Christ or the Theotokos), INCENSE needs to return en force! The whole thing needs to be more sacred. I wish they’d throw in some Latin like the agnus dei or the pater noster, anything. They just need to get back to fundamentals.

I think maybe they mean de-Latinizing the Eastern Catholic parishes, where a lot of Latin usages crept in (or were forced in in some cases I believe) over the years.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

You know what…you’re RIGHT. I misunderstood, Meghan. Thank you.

I think maybe they mean de-Latinizing the Eastern Catholic parishes, where a lot of Latin usages crept in (or were forced in in some cases I believe) over the years.

 

[ThatOneGuy92]

I’ll probably be going back to give it a second shot. But I have to say, it was a touch overwhelming and TOUGH to follow!

You’ll get used to it . May I ask- what kind of parish are you going to? Russian? Greek? Antiochian?

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I just visited…a Serbian Orthodox parish. I just wanted to check it out and see what it was like. I’m not sure that style of worship or even theology is for me. I’m far too Western in my Atonement thinking. I also treasure sacramentals from Catholicism too much. I like a lot of Catholic trappings but have major issues with some theological views that put me at odds with the CC bigtime. My son goes to an LCMS school. We’re diverse, man!

You’ll get used to it . May I ask- what kind of parish are you going to? Russian? Greek? Antiochian?

 

[TarkanAttila]

hate the thought of “de-Latinizing” parishes. The problem isn’t that the Mass is “too Latin” in the States! The problem is that it’s too Protestant and has turned too far from its roots in the traditional Mass. I’d like to see the Mass stay in English, but with more dignified and exalted verbage more akin to the Anglican Book of Common Prayer. Also, the priest needs to start facing the altar again, the people need to practice the traditional gestures of piety (i.e. bowing, pounding the chest, crossing themselves at the name of Christ or the Theotokos), INCENSE needs to return en force! The whole thing needs to be more sacred. I wish they’d throw in some Latin like the Agnus Dei or the Pater Noster, anything. They just need to get back to fundamentals.

I think, if you can get enough people to agree with you, you can petition the bishop to have the Tridentine Mass instated at your local parish. I might like to see the a glorious Traditional Mass myself.

But I honestly like singing for the greater glory of God. I am very thankful for two things: my voice which is quite fit for song, and modern Catholic congregational hymns like “Be Not Afraid”, “This Alone”, and “You are Near”. They are catchy, and scripturally accurate. I would be disappointed if I could not sing such hymns in a Mass (or Liturgy).

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Agreed. I’m not some crazy radical traditionalist. Personally, I just don’t like how the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. I say do it this way:

In English
With incense
Priest faces altar
Gregorian style music alternating with hymns
Some use of Latin in prayers like the Agnus Dei, Pater Noster, rest in English, for example
No communion in the hand
No Eucharistic ministers
Use all the gestures of pre-Vatican II

Make a nice hybrid. Why excess? I think meeting traditionalists half way would go a long way. I personally don’t really want a Latin Mass. I’d just like a return to many of the traditions and pious actions in the Mass that have been lost as informality and laziness have conquered…

I think, if you can get enough people to agree with you, you can petition the bishop to have the Tridentine Mass instated at your local parish. I might like to see the a glorious Traditional Mass myself.

But I honestly like singing for the greater glory of God. I am very thankful for two things: my voice which is quite fit for song, and modern Catholic congregational hymns like “Be Not Afraid”, “This Alone”, and “You are Near”. They are catchy, and scripturally accurate. I would be disappointed if I could not sing such hymns in a Mass (or Liturgy).

 

[Vico]

Agreed. I’m not some crazy radical traditionalist. Personally, I just don’t like how the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. I say do it this way:

In English
With incense
Priest faces altar
Gregorian style music alternating with hymns
Some use of Latin in prayers like the Agnus Dei, Pater Noster, rest in English, for example
No communion in the hand
No Eucharistic ministers
Use all the gestures of pre-Vatican II

Make a nice hybrid. Why excess? I think meeting traditionalists half way would go a long way. I personally don’t really want a Latin Mass. I’d just like a return to many of the traditions and pious actions in the Mass that have been lost as informality and laziness have conquered…

For a few years, just prior to 1970 Novus Ordo, the Mass was changed to English and there was no communion in the hand. We still had altar rails then.
coreyzelinski.8m.com/1965_Mass/

 

[Bluegoat]

Agreed. I’m not some crazy radical traditionalist. Personally, I just don’t like how the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. I say do it this way:

In English
With incense
Priest faces altar
Gregorian style music alternating with hymns
Some use of Latin in prayers like the Agnus Dei, Pater Noster, rest in English, for example
No communion in the hand
No Eucharistic ministers
Use all the gestures of pre-Vatican II

Make a nice hybrid. Why excess? I think meeting traditionalists half way would go a long way. I personally don’t really want a Latin Mass. I’d just like a return to many of the traditions and pious actions in the Mass that have been lost as informality and laziness have conquered…

This sounds almost like my parish, although we do give communion in the hand. Not in a line though, at the altar rail, kneeling.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

That old phrase “more Catholic than the pope” seems to apply to some Anglican parishes. They take communion kneeling at St. Paul’s Anglican here in town also. It’s really a broad-church parish where it’s about half protestant and half catholic…definitely NOT anglo-catholic but definitely NOT full-on calvinist low church by a longshot

San Joaquin just elected a new bishop who will take over in October. He’s very Anglo-Catholic, also opposed to women’s ordination

This sounds almost like my parish, although we do give communion in the hand. Not in a line though, at the altar rail, kneeling.

 

[mardukm]

Dear brother Gurney,

Agreed. I’m not some crazy radical traditionalist. Personally, I just don’t like how the baby was thrown out with the bathwater. I say do it this way:

In English
With incense
Priest faces altar
Gregorian style music alternating with hymns
Some use of Latin in prayers like the Agnus Dei, Pater Noster, rest in English, for example
No communion in the hand
No Eucharistic ministers
Use all the gestures of pre-Vatican II

Make a nice hybrid. Why excess? I think meeting traditionalists half way would go a long way. I personally don’t really want a Latin Mass. I’d just like a return to many of the traditions and pious actions in the Mass that have been lost as informality and laziness have conquered…

I have been to a Novus Ordo Mass here in Southern California where all those things are practiced - except that communion in hand is optional (as well it should be, IMO).

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

mardukm, brother, you’re one lucky devil! Here it is all full of strumming guitars, a giant line up to communion, communion in the hand, Eucharistic ministers dolling out the Eucharist and getting their hands all over it, Eucharistic ministers trying to “bless” children and non-communicants, Baptisty style hymns, people holding hands during the Our Father, you name it. It’s like that in this entire area. While I found the Serbian Orthodox liturgy really tough to follow, even though it was in English, having the incense, the Mass sung, reverence, all male altar boys, the lovely old-school devotion, it was refreshing in many ways. Standing for an hour and a half and trying to follow that 450 mph sung liturgy was a challenge indeed though! The Orthodox and their anti-pew sensibility is something I do take issue with! I likes muh pews and kneelers!

Dear brother Gurney,

I have been to a Novus Ordo Mass here in Southern California where all those things are practiced - except that communion in hand is optional (as well it should be, IMO).

Blessings,
Marduk

 

[Bluegoat]

That old phrase “more Catholic than the pope” seems to apply to some Anglican parishes. They take communion kneeling at St. Paul’s Anglican here in town also. It’s really a broad-church parish where it’s about half protestant and half catholic…definitely NOT anglo-catholic but definitely NOT full-on calvinist low church by a longshot

San Joaquin just elected a new bishop who will take over in October. He’s very Anglo-Catholic, also opposed to women’s ordination

Interesting… I womnder how he;ll make out with that. Over at the other forum, even the most rabid conservatives often have no problem with WO.