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mean_owen
Guest
Traditional Ang:
While you’re waiting for the full answer, ponder the phrase “more Catholic than the Pope”.
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M
mean_owen
Guest
But are there really that many AU parishes out there? Here are a few links. I’ve seen a few other parishes, but I don’t think I’ve heard of more than a dozen or so total.Whenever I see a post about a parish such as this I am very greatful to God that he allowed me to be just around the corner from a wonderful parish. The abuses that I hear of on this forum I don’t find in my church. I wish all were like mine.
Alyssa,
Many of the posters here have their locations posted, maybe someone in your area can help you with finding another parish to try. The AU mass is one option if there is one in the area, but if not I am sure there is a wonderful parish somewhere close. Also I would try that one again on a regular Sunday, as another poster said, you find many people on Christmas eve who are not regulars, or maybe aren’t even Catholic but came with friends, or relatives. At my church on Christmas eve we had a mass at 4:30 pm, the childrens bell coir played. One of the women who is very involved in the church, and a very faithful woman brought some of her relatives to see her daughter play in the choir, she was also assisting them. Well, I was in the row in front of them, and one of this womans sisters didn’t shut up the whole time. After the kiss of peace the lamb of god started, and usually everything quiets very quickly, but she talked even more then, at this point we are all preparing ourselves for the Eucharist, how irritating.
Well, I am in the Detroit area, if you happen to be here you could PM me, or maybe try to PM someone who is in your area from the description of their location on this forum.
walsingham-church.org/otherparishes.htm
bookofdivineworship.com/links.html
pastoralprovision.org/congregations.html (is Bernie Law still in charge??)
anglican-use.blogspot.com/
atonementonline.com/Canterbury/
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
As a member of the TAC, I can assure that when someone is Blessed at the Alter Rail in lieu of receiving Communion, the man doing the blessing is a Priest, and that is is allowed under our canons. One reason we do that is because, until very recently, the Anglican Communion did not allow children under the age of 12 to receive Communion, and made people wait until after they were Confirmed to receive Communion.
The TAC has taken the Catholic practice of giving children Communion provided they can show that they understand who it is they’re receiving, and after a series of classes designed to prepare the children to receive Our Lord’s Body and Blood. But, parents still bring their children to be blessed BY THE PRIEST, and others come who haven’t been Baptized or whose Churches aren’t in Communion with the TAC.
This is all within the canons of the TAC and the Blessings are done by Priests and not by laypeople.
In Him, Michael
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mean_owen
Guest
Traditional Ang:
Oops. Let me clarify: I was referring to blessings by priests at altar rail (in lieu of adminstering Communion), not blessings by laypeople. I understood from Jay that he opposed this (blessing by the priest) as well.
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
Owen and Jay:
As I understand, it used to be used in the Catholic Church to emphasize the need to JOIN THE CHURCH for those who hadn’t done so. I sure it’s in the TAC Canons and was based on an ancient tradition for “Catechumens” and children. I’m not sure that’s understood. Jay says it’s an abuse outside of the Canons.
My father used to drag us to various churches when the choir was on “sabatical”, so I was blessed at least once in an Orthodox Church as a child/teenager, because I was not allowed to receive Communion. I was also “Blessed” in my father’s Church after they joined the Antiochan Orthodox Church for the same reason. Every time I was blessed, we were invited forward to be blessed with those receiving Communion. The “Blessing” instead of Communion informed me that I needed to do something if I wanted to receive Communion in that Body and belong to that Body. I understand the same thing used to happen in Catholic Churches until the 1950’s when the same effect.
An Eastern Orthodox man who was taking Communion at my parish was “Blessed” for a couple of weeks until he received the OK from his own Priest to receive communion there (My paster has his orders through an Eastern Catholic Church - I don’t know how).
Owen, I agree with Jay when it comes to giving “Blessings” instead of Communion to Catholics that are in a State of Mortal Sin. It seems like they’re trying to make people not feel bad. That does seem to be an abuse.
Except for that, it is in the Canons of the Anglican and Orthodox Churches, and there definitely is a purpose in the way the Orthodox do it & the Catholics used to do it. I’ve experienced it. It’s really quite effective.
Have you thought of the “Blessing” as a tool for evangelization once you have the “Visitor” in the Pew?
In Him, Michael
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ThornGenX
Guest
Katholikos said:
I only meant to provide a possible answer to how someone can line up for communion and not receive it. I did not mean to throw this thread off track or spark a big debate. I thought receiving the blessing was permitted by the Roman Catholic Church. My apologies.
Sincerely
C
Cherub
Guest
In the last eight months or so, I made a reconciliation and returned to the Catholic Church after being away since 1989. In that away time, I began attending a neighborhood Episcopal church. I had my son baptized there when he was 5 years old. I was received into the Episcopal Church in 1995.
I can say that the most profound, reverent, and healing experiences with God that I have ever had were in the Episcopal Church.
Curiosity brought me briefly back to the Catholic Church, but as Alissa found it, I also found it to be rather hollow and unfocused on Christ. I missed the Episcopal Church – really, any old Protestant Church for that matter, for the reverence and holiness and the attitude that they have towards almighty God and Our Lord.
No, it wasn’t just one or two Catholic parishes I attended. I really wanted to be Catholic again, and I searched everywhere within a reasonable distance to find one that seemed to actually understand in Whose presence Mass was given.
Alas, I found none of the beauty or reverence I thought the Catholic Church was supposed to be about, and as of today, I am Episcopalian again. My conscience tells me that if attending a particular sect or congregation produces such a tasteless environment that it actually comes between me and God, it is sinful for me to continue to be there. I must be where the Lord truly is, and He is in more places than just the Catholic Church.
I still love and deeply respect the Catholic faith for what it is supposed to be, but if what the Church proclaims and teaches is not being practiced in its churches, and not being enforced in any way, then there is something wrong somewhere.
~Cherub, now the Anglican.
I can say that the most profound, reverent, and healing experiences with God that I have ever had were in the Episcopal Church.
Curiosity brought me briefly back to the Catholic Church, but as Alissa found it, I also found it to be rather hollow and unfocused on Christ. I missed the Episcopal Church – really, any old Protestant Church for that matter, for the reverence and holiness and the attitude that they have towards almighty God and Our Lord.
No, it wasn’t just one or two Catholic parishes I attended. I really wanted to be Catholic again, and I searched everywhere within a reasonable distance to find one that seemed to actually understand in Whose presence Mass was given.
Alas, I found none of the beauty or reverence I thought the Catholic Church was supposed to be about, and as of today, I am Episcopalian again. My conscience tells me that if attending a particular sect or congregation produces such a tasteless environment that it actually comes between me and God, it is sinful for me to continue to be there. I must be where the Lord truly is, and He is in more places than just the Catholic Church.
I still love and deeply respect the Catholic faith for what it is supposed to be, but if what the Church proclaims and teaches is not being practiced in its churches, and not being enforced in any way, then there is something wrong somewhere.
~Cherub, now the Anglican.
A
Alissa
Guest
Since I don’t live in a big metropolitan area, my options aren’t that abundant. Still, if I’m willing to drive a bit, there a few options, and I’ll keep what I’ve read here at CA forum in mind. I’ve read all the posts and checked out most of the links. Thanks to all my brothers and sisters in Christ (whatever your church) for the (name removed by moderator)ut.
To Traditiona Ang: EWTN? If I ever decide to buy a satellite dish, I’ll look into it. Till then, I’m busy enough that I don’t even miss TV.
To Cherub (and all others who have posted here who have the privilege of worshiping at a church that establishes a reverent environment for the service): I know how you feel - it isn’t a weekly chore; rather, it is a JOY to be able to go to church and worship our Savior! It’s a privilege, eagerly anticipated.
–Alissa
To Traditiona Ang: EWTN? If I ever decide to buy a satellite dish, I’ll look into it. Till then, I’m busy enough that I don’t even miss TV.
To Cherub (and all others who have posted here who have the privilege of worshiping at a church that establishes a reverent environment for the service): I know how you feel - it isn’t a weekly chore; rather, it is a JOY to be able to go to church and worship our Savior! It’s a privilege, eagerly anticipated.
–Alissa
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Cherub
Guest
Honestly, I am so confused and weary of the liturgical woes I’ve witnessed at various parishes. I have to plead insanity concerning that last post-- because yes, these things do drive me that crazy. I do love the Anglican way of worship very much; but why does the Archbishop have to be a Druid??? Why has he ordained openly gay ministers, and why have the ECUSA people ordained that openly gay bishop? That sort of stuff is just mindblowingly contrary to Christianity, to the Bible, and to everything else in our traditions.
So I should, having walked away and calmed back down and taken a deep breath, now utterly recant that statement that I am now Anglican, because I can’t be.
But boy does it hurt to know the liturgy is celebrated so reverently there, while Our Lord Jesus comes to be in our very presence during the Catholic Mass–but we treat it like a trip to the circus. :crying:
So I should, having walked away and calmed back down and taken a deep breath, now utterly recant that statement that I am now Anglican, because I can’t be.
But boy does it hurt to know the liturgy is celebrated so reverently there, while Our Lord Jesus comes to be in our very presence during the Catholic Mass–but we treat it like a trip to the circus. :crying:
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mean_owen
Guest
Cherub- If it makes you feel any better, I sorta, kinda, feel your pain.
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Toni
Guest
My sentiments exactly! We do not only attend our RC Mass to be entertained by a longwinded minister but our main focus is the Eucharist the true presence of Christ. One you will not find in any church but Catholic. Sermons are a bonus and sometimes they are worth listening to and sometimes dull but being open to the Holy Spirit I always walk away with something. I am sorry you missed the main focus of our Mass, that is the true presence of Christ.
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Cherub
Guest
Thank you. It does make me feel much better.
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MaggieOH
Guest
singing your own praises?I belong to a wonderful parish and we always have to contend with the twice a year crowd at Christmas and Easter. They are obvious when they show ignorance on the order of the Mass.
The Midnight Mass had three priests concelebrating, a wonderful choir and a crowd of people. We also had great preaching from the youngest priest in the diocese (a parish in-joke).
Whilst there might not be a daily Mass Book in the pews, these are readily available to those who need them.
What really matters is the intentions of the people. If the parish is unhappy because of contentious issues then there will not be any peace.
MaggieOH
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mean_owen
Guest
Seriously, it’s a bit of a conundrum. There is the THE CHURCH, and there is the place, and the people, with whom you worship (“the church”). The extremes that I have have seen are:Thank you. It does make me feel much better.
a) the Catholic who views Mass (specifically, reception of the Eucharist) as the ONLY fascet of worship. He could care less which parish, because he doesn’t want to get involved and know anybody anyway. These are the folks that come in just before the Gospel, and run out after putting the Blessed Sacrament in their mouth. After all, they’ve fulfilled their obligation to THE CHURCH. That’s what it’s all about.
b) the happy-clappy Protestant type who views “the church” primarily as a form of entertainment and socializing. They go because they like the way it makes them feel. Brother Bobby preaches such a good sermon, and we just love PowerPoint! Besides, with our “little church” meetings, kids programs, couples programs, and the gym, we don’t really need any other socializing. Praise God, we love “the church”!
For some of us, what’s missing is the connection between THE CHURCH, and “the church”, the institution and the people we actually rub elbows with (and the way we worship). It sounds like Alyssa is does well with her own ECUSA parish, but not the ECUSA as a whole. OTOH, if she all she could find were the RC parishes like the one she attended, she might be all right with “THE CHURCH” (RC), but have a moribund spirituality. That’s not great, either.
K
Katholikos
Guest
Please look at the Catholic Church from the perspective of history. An ecumenical council always causes upheavel in the Church (there have been 20 in 2,000 years). History shows that it takes about 100 years for the Church to assimilate the decrees of a general council. We are only 40 years out from Vatican II. It will be about 60 more years before equilibrium returns. But the barque of Peter has never capsized, has never taught heresy, has always taught exactly what the Apostles taught, has always preserved the Deposit of Faith of which she is the sole guardian, and there’s no reason to believe she will fail now. Christ said, “the powers of death shall not prevail against (My Church).” The Church is Christ’s presence on this earth; when the Church speaks, it is Christ’s voice you hear (Luke 10:16).
A new liturgy was introduced by VII, called the Novus Ordo, replacing the Latin Tridentine Mass. Us humans being the way we are, compliance with the directives of the Church for its celebration have been uneven. There has been confusion, to put it mildly. A new group of “liturgists” emerged from the universities, and liturgical experimentation has been rampant in the U.S. The Church has issued directives which have not been enthusiastically implemented by the American Bishops, but slowly things are getting better. (There was talk of an American Catholic Church – a schism – at one time.) The Pope has had to deal with unruly children in the midst of turmoil.
Recently a revision to the General Instructions of the Roman Missal was approved by Rome and issued to all parishes. There was still a problem, so Rome has issued yet another directive on the liturgy – Redemptionis Sacramentum. To read it, go here:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
This Church is HUGE. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is celebrated in 236 of the world’s 238 countries. No other Church has such a presence in the world. So give it some time to get this liturgy problem squared away.
No matter how disappointing or uninspiring you may find the liturgy to be on any one occasion, or in any one Church, or celebrated by any one priest, there’s one thing certain: there you will find the Real Presence of Christ, His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity – the True Eucharist.
The Rt. Rev. Graham Leonard, former Bishop of London, the third ranking Anglican in the world, is now an ordinary Catholic priest. He found Anglicanism to be spiritually bankrupt. Beatiful trappings yes, but what good is a empty shell when one is hungry for Truth and Real Food. Father Leonard belongs to a Catholic order called Miles Jesu (Soldiers of Jesus). To read about it, go here:
milesjesu.com/
You couldn’t drag me out of this Church! I like to think I would die for it, like the martyrs do even today in China and other countries. It ain’t easy being Catholic, but it’s a Faith worth dying for.
I LOVE THIS CHURCH !!!
JMJ Jay
A new liturgy was introduced by VII, called the Novus Ordo, replacing the Latin Tridentine Mass. Us humans being the way we are, compliance with the directives of the Church for its celebration have been uneven. There has been confusion, to put it mildly. A new group of “liturgists” emerged from the universities, and liturgical experimentation has been rampant in the U.S. The Church has issued directives which have not been enthusiastically implemented by the American Bishops, but slowly things are getting better. (There was talk of an American Catholic Church – a schism – at one time.) The Pope has had to deal with unruly children in the midst of turmoil.
Recently a revision to the General Instructions of the Roman Missal was approved by Rome and issued to all parishes. There was still a problem, so Rome has issued yet another directive on the liturgy – Redemptionis Sacramentum. To read it, go here:
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20040423_redemptionis-sacramentum_en.html
This Church is HUGE. The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is celebrated in 236 of the world’s 238 countries. No other Church has such a presence in the world. So give it some time to get this liturgy problem squared away.
No matter how disappointing or uninspiring you may find the liturgy to be on any one occasion, or in any one Church, or celebrated by any one priest, there’s one thing certain: there you will find the Real Presence of Christ, His Body and Blood, Soul and Divinity – the True Eucharist.
The Rt. Rev. Graham Leonard, former Bishop of London, the third ranking Anglican in the world, is now an ordinary Catholic priest. He found Anglicanism to be spiritually bankrupt. Beatiful trappings yes, but what good is a empty shell when one is hungry for Truth and Real Food. Father Leonard belongs to a Catholic order called Miles Jesu (Soldiers of Jesus). To read about it, go here:
milesjesu.com/
You couldn’t drag me out of this Church! I like to think I would die for it, like the martyrs do even today in China and other countries. It ain’t easy being Catholic, but it’s a Faith worth dying for.
I LOVE THIS CHURCH !!!
JMJ Jay
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Traditional_Ang
Guest
Cherub:
First, there are the Anglican Use Parishes which Mean_Owen found:
But are there really that many AU parishes out there? Here are a few links. I’ve seen a few other parishes, but I don’t think I’ve heard of more than a dozen or so total.
walsingham-church.org/otherparishes.htm
bookofdivineworship.com/links.html
pastoralprovision.org/congregations.html (is Bernie Law still in charge??)
anglican-use.blogspot.com/
atonementonline.com/Canterbury/
atonementonline.com/aua.html
You can always go half way and join us for the “trans-Tiberian Swim”…
Traditional Anglican Communion
Churches in the Americas
acahome.org/tac/members/memb05.htm
acahome.org/acamain.htm
And, if you can’t find an ACC parish in you area, there are locators for other “orthodox Anglicans” on these sites:
acahome.org/submenu/links.htm
netministries.org/see/charmin/CM06091
Someone esle mentioned Eastern Catholic Parishes which are in union with the Pope NOW, and will also have beautiful liturgies, which are valid and will have solid doctrine. And, still someone else mentioned the SSPX Churches and the Latin “Indult” Masses held in may Archdioceses.
Good Hunting. Please let us know hoew this turns out,
In Him, Michael
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mean_owen
Guest
Well, I hope that, before they get it all straightened out, I get a chance to see liturgical dance. That really sounds like something,
C
Cherub
Guest
Traditional Ang:
Evangelical churches,
Roman Catholic, and
Episcopal
After sitting with this for a day or two and having prayed and though deeply about it, and having read and studied various information online, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in the Bible, and in the Book of Common Prayer, I do realize firmly that I’m Catholic. I’m a Catholic who desperately wishes for some guidance from our bishops to bring the liturgy into holy reverence, and who often feels offended by what shows up during Mass, but that’s something I will just have to live with. I’m not going to turn tail and run, though. I’m going to stay, attend liturgical committee meetings, and do what little part I can in the spirit of charity to bring about small improvements. The Catholic Church is the only Church on Earth that does possess the fullness of our Christian faith. How could I have even dreamed of abandoning ship? But it does irk me that some of the more liberal churches are more traditional in terms of reverence in the liturgy. I will just pray about it.
Thanks again for your help. God bless you.
Traditional Ang: thanks for the links. I have found them inspiring, but where I live there are three choices:
Evangelical churches,
Roman Catholic, and
Episcopal
After sitting with this for a day or two and having prayed and though deeply about it, and having read and studied various information online, in the Catechism of the Catholic Church, in the Bible, and in the Book of Common Prayer, I do realize firmly that I’m Catholic. I’m a Catholic who desperately wishes for some guidance from our bishops to bring the liturgy into holy reverence, and who often feels offended by what shows up during Mass, but that’s something I will just have to live with. I’m not going to turn tail and run, though. I’m going to stay, attend liturgical committee meetings, and do what little part I can in the spirit of charity to bring about small improvements. The Catholic Church is the only Church on Earth that does possess the fullness of our Christian faith. How could I have even dreamed of abandoning ship? But it does irk me that some of the more liberal churches are more traditional in terms of reverence in the liturgy. I will just pray about it.
Thanks again for your help. God bless you.
W
WhiteDove
Guest
Brrrr, I hear the winters are mighty cold up there…
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