And yet again Zerinus, you think you understand Catholicism and you don’t. The will and intent of the parent(s) does make a difference - not just the religious beliefs of the nurse who’s LDS. In a baptismal ceremony for an infant the priest or deacon asks the parents what they are requesting for the baby - the answer is baptism. This is done because the baby can’t answer for themselves. The parents are acting on behalf of their baby - it is their will that is being followed to bring this sacrament to the baby.
In an adolescent or adult baptism the recipient themselves are asked what their request is of the church, the answer - baptism. So the mother plays a very important role in the case cited. It is her will that’s important, not that of the LDS nurse. And based on the way this nurse was described, it appears her intent was to help the mother - not make sure the baptism was following LDS form.
That’s why, as explained multiple time to you now, the RCC recognizes as valid, baptism from non-priests/deacons, from other religions, from an atheist, if necessary, in the case of an emergency.
Sorry OHCAC, but the actions or mental assent of the mother simply has no relevance to the subject matter that is being discussed.
Below is info from the Fr. Ladaria article regarding form and matter. Regarding matter, you’re right - no problem. Regarding form, he makes it so abundantly clear that they are not the same, contradictory to your statement above.
I. The Matter. On this point there is no problem. Water is used. The Mormons practice Baptism by immersion (cf. Doctrine and Covenants [D&C] 20:74), which is one of the ways of celebrating Baptism (application of the matter) which is accepted by the Catholic Church.
II. The Form. We have seen that in the texts of the Magisterium on Baptism there is a reference to the invocation of the Trinity (to the sources already mentioned, the Fourth Lateran Council could be added here [DH 8021). The formula used by the Mormons might seem at first sight to be a Trinitarian formula. The text states: “Being commissioned by Jesus Christ, I baptize you in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit” (cf. D&C 20:73). The similarities with the formula used by the Catholic Church are at first sight obvious, but in reality they are only apparent. There is not in fact a fundamental doctrinal agreement. **There is not a true invocation of the Trinity
because the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit, according to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, are not the three persons in which subsists the one Godhead, but three gods who form one divinity. One is different from the other, even though they exist in perfect harmony (Joseph F. Smith, ed., Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith [TPJSI, Salt Lake City: Desert Book, 1976, p. 372). **The very word divinity has only a functional, not a substantial content, because the divinity originates when the three gods decided to unite and form the divinity to bring about human salvation (Encyclopaedia of Mormonism [EM], New York: Macmillan, 1992, cf. Vol. 2, p. 552). This divinity and man share the same nature and they are substantially equal. God the Father is an exalted man, native of another planet, who has acquired his divine status through a death similar to that of human beings, the necessary way to divinization (cf. TPJS, pp. 345-346). God the Father has relatives and this is explained by the doctrine of infinite regression of the gods who initially were mortal (cf. TPJS, p. 373). God the Father has a wife, the Heavenly Mother, with whom he shares the responsibility of creation. They procreate sons in the spiritual world. Their firstborn is Jesus Christ, equal to all men, who has acquired his divinity in a pre-mortal existence. Even the Holy Spirit is the son of heavenly parents. The Son and the Holy Spirit were procreated after the beginning of the creation of the world known to us (cf. EM, Vol. 2, p. 961). Four gods are directly responsible for the universe, three of whom have established a covenant and thus form the divinity.
As is easily seen, to the similarity of titles there does not correspond in any way a doctrinal content which can lead to the Christian doctrine of the Trinity. The words Father, Son and Holy Spirit, have for the Mormons a meaning totally different from the Christian meaning. The differences are so great that one cannot even consider that this doctrine is a heresy which emerged out of a false understanding of the Christian doctrine. The teaching of the Mormons has a completely different matrix. We do not find ourselves, therefore, before the case of the validity of Baptism administered by heretics, affirmed already from the first Christian centuries, nor of Baptism conferred in non-Catholic ecclesial communities, as noted in Canon 869 §2.
This is so clear: that the form of LDS and Catholic baptism are not the same, for a RCC baptism, as pertains to RCC theology, that for you to continue to say “LDS baptism uses the same form and matter as Catholic baptism” is simply foolish. I know you can read the words - heck, you brought up the article. It appears, (I can’t read minds) that you really have no intention to have a meaningful dialogue about your blog - you’ve made up your mind and that’s it.
So be it - but then please don’t come to a RCC forum purporting to want to converse with us when really all you want to do is spout LDS theology, ignore what we (even a priest) tells you when you’re flat out wrong, and make derogatory statements about our faith - and then do it under the guise of the LDS are the mistreated ones.
That is a contrived argument. It is a convoluted and unsuccessful attempt at converting a
doctrinal difference into a difference in “form,” and it doesn’t work. His own arguments refute his own attempt.
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Four of my friends from RCIA were former mormons. All of us wanted to be baptized. What did we ask from the Church? Baptism, Confirmation, Eucharist!!