RCIA and annulment issues

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I’m sorry to hear of your troubles. I know that this is a big obstacle for many that want to come into the Catholic Church. It can truly test your resolve, to be sure. As one who handles RCIA at my parish, I have seen this first hand. I concur with the advice that it would be a good idea to talk to your pastor about all this. He is in a far better position to advise you than any of us here. And, no doubt, he would be happy to do so.

Perhaps this is something you already know, but I like to try to encourage people to see it from the Church’s perspective.

In Catholic teaching, we take the sacraments very seriously. That is why we are always asking for documentation regarding Baptisms, for example. We need to know for sure where and how and if a person was baptized because the sacrament cannot be repeated.

The Church also takes marriage very seriously, such as Jesus’ teaching that marriage is for life and what God has joined, man must not separate. This is why people cannot just get divorced and marry someone else.

But, the Church acknowledges that there are many cases (in the present day in particular where the understanding of marriage is so poor) where people do not validly enter into marriage even though they go through the motions and file all the right paperwork. This is where the annulment process comes in. It is the means by which the Church can investigate these former bonds in order to figure out whether or not a marriage actually took place. And if it is determined that a prior bond did not take place, then the person is free to marry someone else.

In cases like yours, that means investigating the prior marriages for both of you because you both need to be free to marry in order to be married in the Catholic Church.

And this does require an investigation, because the Church takes this seriously. If it was just a matter of looking at a few documents and one-page form from one person’s perspective, it would be very difficult for those entrusted with investigating to form a clear judgment. The margin for error would be much higher.

So, as much as it can be painful and tedious and just plain difficult, the hard questions must be asked. Multiple sources must be consulted. Both parties must have the opportunity to share their side of the story. Through this process, the tribunal office (the office at the diocese that handles these cases) can get to a place where they can more confidently render a just judgment.

I had a guy this past year drop out of RCIA for this very reason. He himself had not been previously married, but his wife had been. She wasn’t even in RCIA, so it was difficult for either of them to understand why she had to go through the annulment process. It dredged up a painful past relationship that they had both already put behind them, and they didn’t want to have to go through that. I get that. I really do. But, what is the Church supposed to do? Grant an annulment with no investigation? Pretend that the prior marriage bond makes no difference? That would certainly make my job easier and more pleasant, but then we have just undermined the Church’s teaching on marriage and its permanence. The whole teaching becomes effectively meaningless because it no longer matters whether people get divorced and remarried in any circumstance. Indeed, that is exactly what has happened in many Protestant denominations who have opted for the easier, less confrontational route.

It’s a tough situation all around. No denying that. There is no easy answer that will make the whole process easy and painless for everyone involved. I get why that is frustrating to people. I do. So many other sins of our past life need simply be brought to Confession to have the slate wiped clean and make entry into the Church possible. But not with divorce and remarriage. For that, it takes a long process of answering all sorts of personal questions and putting friends and family on the spot to do the same. That’s no one’s idea of a good time.

Pope Francis has been making attempts at reform to make the process less painful, but there is only so much that can be done. I don’t really see a way around it.

My advice (in addition to talking to your pastor which, again, I greatly encourage you to do) is to take it to prayer. Pray for wisdom. Pray for courage. Pray about the ways you can talk this over with your wife. Pray for the whole process. Pray, pray, and pray some more! That’s the only way through it.

I will say a prayer for you and your family.
I appreciate your explanation, but going through this makes you feel you have committed a crime. There is no mercy in this process. It is an invasion of privacy and a lot of snooping. Why does the Church want to make people relive painful memories?
It feels like the Inquisition to me. Very ridiculous.
They haven’t done enough to reform this process.
I respect you for the work you do, but I don’t agree with how annulments are taken care
of. Very bureaucratic and intrusive.
 
I appreciate your explanation, but going through this makes you feel you have committed a crime. There is no mercy in this process. It is an invasion of privacy and a lot of snooping. Why does the Church want to make people relive painful memories?
It feels like the Inquisition to me. Very ridiculous.
They haven’t done enough to reform this process.
I respect you for the work you do, but I don’t agree with how annulments are taken care
of. Very bureaucratic and intrusive.
What is an alternative that’s compliant with Church teaching on marriage?
 
What is an alternative that’s compliant with Church teaching on marriage?
I have no idea. I have only been Catholic for 8 years. My marriage was 29-33 years ago.

I only had two witnesses which didn’t know all the details. I am a private person.
I did not share what was happening in my private life with every Tom, Dick or Harry or
family. I offered to meet with a counselor as I had heard others here say they had done that and they said it takes too long to get established with someone, but I started the
process February of last year, I could have already established myself for over a year and I probably won’t get an answer until next year and then I could have had 2 years with a counselor to verify I am trustworthy and telling the truth! I have had a lot of trauma in my life and losses and this process has magnified everything and almost pushed me over the edge.
 
If neither of you are Catholic…well…the Orthodox church …which is in communion with Rome…does allow for those who have divorced and remarried…if there is no hope you can join the Catholic church then that could be a choice for you…if either of you were Catholic then it could be said that you are only changing church because you don’t agree with what the Catholic church teaches…but seeing as neither of you are Catholic…and you are not obliged to follow Catholic teaching then it is an option for you…first try to exhaust all your options regarding the annulment…there are Orthodox posters here on CAF who could inform you with regard to their churches belief on this matter:)
 
I appreciate your explanation, but going through this makes you feel you have committed a crime. There is no mercy in this process. It is an invasion of privacy and a lot of snooping. Why does the Church want to make people relive painful memories?
It feels like the Inquisition to me. Very ridiculous.
They haven’t done enough to reform this process.
I respect you for the work you do, but I don’t agree with how annulments are taken care
of. Very bureaucratic and intrusive.
I’m sorry you have had such a bad experience with it. 😦 Do you think that part of the problem could be solved simply by having those working on the case be more pastorally sensitive and/or compassionate in their demeanor (with all else being equal)?

I understand why it can be painful and feel like an invasion of privacy. I’m a very private person myself. I can only imagine what it would be like. My heart aches for people in these situations. But I cannot think of how else the Church can determine what the reality of the situation is without asking personal questions.

I’ll admit I’m no expert. I haven’t gone through the process and don’t even know exactly what questions are asked. Though I direct RCIA and point people towards the process, I myself am not involved in it. I have known many who have gone through the process (some, even 30+ years later). Some found the experience cathartic and freeing. Others endured it only by focusing on the light at the end of the tunnel. I couldn’t really say why some experience it one way over the other.

If there is a better, less-intrusive way to go about it, I sincerely hope that someone figures it out and implements it. I’m just finishing up my first year as DRE and trying to explain the need for an annulment to people was by far the least favorite thing I had to do this whole year. I’d love to be able to tell people, “Just sign this form saying you believe in good conscience that your prior marriage was not valid, and you’ll be good to go!”
 
I understand why it can be painful and feel like an invasion of privacy. I’m a very private person myself. I can only imagine what it would be like. My heart aches for people in these situations. But I cannot think of how else the Church can determine what the reality of the situation is without asking personal questions.
I was in a similar situation when I married my second wife 12 years ago - although I was the divorced non-Catholic and she was a never-married Catholic. At the time of our wedding I had been divorced for 20 years. I knew very little about Catholicism and even less about the Catholic concept of marriage. When the priest told me about the need for an annulment I thought it was the stupidest thing I had ever heard of. But, I was willing to go through the process for my wife. Then he gave me the questionnaire and explained that I needed to provide witnesses and involve my ex-wife in the process. Finally, I needed to sign a release so our marriage counselor could release our confidential records - something that my ex-wife would absolutely not consent to. Long story short, lack of witnesses, lack of consent for marriage counseling records…the annulment just never happened.
I’m just finishing up my first year as DRE and trying to explain the need for an annulment to people was by far the least favorite thing I had to do this whole year. I’d love to be able to tell people, “Just sign this form saying you believe in good conscience that your prior marriage was not valid, and you’ll be good to go!”
In my opinion, that is exactly how it should be done. Just take people at their word and let God sort it out. I have to wonder how many cases, after going through the whole, absurdly ridiculous annulment process, are decided incorrectly anyway. I bet the taking-people-at-their-word method, in the end, would be just as accurate in determining which marriages were or were not invalid.
 
I was in a similar situation when I married my second wife 12 years ago - although I was the divorced non-Catholic and she was a never-married Catholic. At the time of our wedding I had been divorced for 20 years. I knew very little about Catholicism and even less about the Catholic concept of marriage. When the priest told me about the need for an annulment I thought it was the stupidest thing I had ever heard of. But, I was willing to go through the process for my wife. Then he gave me the questionnaire and explained that I needed to provide witnesses and involve my ex-wife in the process. Finally, I needed to sign a release so our marriage counselor could release our confidential records - something that my ex-wife would absolutely not consent to. Long story short, lack of witnesses, lack of consent for marriage counseling records…the annulment just never happened.

In my opinion, that is exactly how it should be done. Just take people at their word and let God sort it out. I have to wonder how many cases, after going through the whole, absurdly ridiculous annulment process, are decided incorrectly anyway. I bet the taking-people-at-their-word method, in the end, would be just as accurate in determining which marriages were or were not invalid.
It seems that diocese differ in the annulment process…my wife could only find one witness as her first marriage had been so long ago that all but 2 people were still alive…one was her sister who refused to be a witness…other was a brother in law who did provide a statement…her ex did not respond to the letter they sent to him…the tribunal asked her to relate her story to a church appointed psychologist ( special witness) who then forwarded her statement on to the tribunal…it…along with the only witness statement were both accepted and her annulment was granted…I’m not sure why they would need confidential records from a marriage counselor…the annulment is to find out if your first marriage was valid at the the time of the marriage…not during marriage counseling…maybe you should look further into it…I think some things in the process have been streamlined by Pope Francis also.
 
I’m not sure why they would need confidential records from a marriage counselor…the annulment is to find out if your first marriage was valid at the the time of the marriage…not during marriage counseling…**maybe you should look further into it…**I think some things in the process have been streamlined by Pope Francis also.
It’s been 12 years now. We’re both past it. No longer something we are seriously concerned about.
 
OP, there are ways around these things if you have a uncooperative spouse.

My spouse is a fallen away Catholic who really didn’t want anything to do with the Church. We both needed a annulment and to get our marriage blessed by the CC.

So my situation looked very hopeless as well. But I kept calling and calling and bugging everyone over there. When my phone calls didn’t get returned, I made a appt with a neighboring parish priest and told him my situation. And then suddenly my calls got returned and they got the ball rolling and a few months later my already existing civil marriage is blessed by the Church w/o her ever stepping foot in there. And now I’m Catholic in good standing with the CC.

So, took a year and a half, but it got done. Please don’t lose heart and remember the squeaky hinges get the oil.
 
I’m sorry you have had such a bad experience with it. 😦 Do you think that part of the problem could be solved simply by having those working on the case be more pastorally sensitive and/or compassionate in their demeanor (with all else being equal)?

I understand why it can be painful and feel like an invasion of privacy. I’m a very private person myself. I can only imagine what it would be like. My heart aches for people in these situations. But I cannot think of how else the Church can determine what the reality of the situation is without asking personal questions.

I’ll admit I’m no expert. I haven’t gone through the process and don’t even know exactly what questions are asked. Though I direct RCIA and point people towards the process, I myself am not involved in it. I have known many who have gone through the process (some, even 30+ years later). Some found the experience cathartic and freeing. Others endured it only by focusing on the light at the end of the tunnel. I couldn’t really say why some experience it one way over the other.

If there is a better, less-intrusive way to go about it, I sincerely hope that someone figures it out and implements it. I’m just finishing up my first year as DRE and trying to explain the need for an annulment to people was by far the least favorite thing I had to do this whole year. I’d love to be able to tell people, “Just sign this form saying you believe in good conscience that your prior marriage was not valid, and you’ll be good to go!”
It’s a very difficult process.

Not sure if people understand that not only is it a invasion of privacy, but many of us are converts and so we don’t have Catholic-friendly witnesses willing to go through the testimony phase of all this.

In my case, first I have to tell my family that I’m signing up for an apostate church(in their minds anyway), and oh yeah, I’ll need you to help me do it by testifying about a 17 year old marriage. Asking questions about something that seemed to take place a lifetime ago is unsettling for them.
 
OP, there are ways around these things if you have a uncooperative spouse.

My spouse is a fallen away Catholic who really didn’t want anything to do with the Church. We both needed a annulment and to get our marriage blessed by the CC.

So my situation looked very hopeless as well. But I kept calling and calling and bugging everyone over there. When my phone calls didn’t get returned, I made a appt with a neighboring parish priest and told him my situation. And then suddenly my calls got returned and they got the ball rolling and a few months later my already existing civil marriage is blessed by the Church w/o her ever stepping foot in there. And now I’m Catholic in good standing with the CC.

So, took a year and a half, but it got done. Please don’t lose heart and remember the squeaky hinges get the oil.
The point is not that the poster’s former spouse does not wish to cooperate with a declaration of nullity proceeding regarding their marriage.

The point is that poster’s current spouse is not willing to initiate a case in the tribunal to investigate her own previous marriage. She or her former spouse are the only ones who can petition for that investigation…and it cannot be done against the will of both of them.
 
I appreciate your explanation, but going through this makes you feel you have committed a crime. There is no mercy in this process. It is an invasion of privacy and a lot of snooping. Why does the Church want to make people relive painful memories?
It feels like the Inquisition to me. Very ridiculous.
They haven’t done enough to reform this process.
I respect you for the work you do, but I don’t agree with how annulments are taken care
of. Very bureaucratic and intrusive.
After all these years, I could write quite the book.

Over the years, there have been those who have found the process to be in some way cathartic…but they are few and far between, in my experience.

I do not think the process needs additional reform…that was what we in essence had years ago, when I was significantly younger. As an old priest, I think the process now in the 21st century needs a complete overhaul.

As bad as it is in the United States and Canada, there are many places where it is actually worse and/or not available in any meaningful way.
 
It’s a very difficult process.

Not sure if people understand that not only is it a invasion of privacy, but many of us are converts and so we don’t have Catholic-friendly witnesses willing to go through the testimony phase of all this.

In my case, first I have to tell my family that I’m signing up for an apostate church(in their minds anyway), and oh yeah, I’ll need you to help me do it by testifying about a 17 year old marriage. Asking questions about something that seemed to take place a lifetime ago is unsettling for them.
Indeed.

But as hard as the process is for converts, the situation is even harder when the convert’s spouse, who is non-Catholic, who does not want to be Catholic, who may object even to the spouse becoming Catholic, is the one with a prior bond – and that marriage, also to a non-Catholic, has to be adjudicated in order to regularise the subsequent union involving the person who wants to become Catholic.

In such a case, neither of the two people with the prior bond have any interest in their marital relationship being investigated or the subject of a determination by a marriage tribunal of the Catholic Church.
 
It seems that diocese differ in the annulment process…my wife could only find one witness as her first marriage had been so long ago that all but 2 people were still alive…one was her sister who refused to be a witness…other was a brother in law who did provide a statement…her ex did not respond to the letter they sent to him…the tribunal asked her to relate her story to a church appointed psychologist ( special witness) who then forwarded her statement on to the tribunal…it…along with the only witness statement were both accepted and her annulment was granted…I’m not sure why they would need confidential records from a marriage counselor…the annulment is to find out if your first marriage was valid at the the time of the marriage…not during marriage counseling…maybe you should look further into it…I think some things in the process have been streamlined by Pope Francis also.
I don’t know why they wouldn’t let me meet with a church appointed psychologist because I was willing to do it. They wanted my sister to fill out a questionnaire, but I didn’t want to put anyone else through the process. I don’t think they realize how difficult it is to approach non-Catholics to be witnesses and answer such personal
questions. The 2 witnesses I had were both mortified and almost laughing at the details they were being asked about.
 
After all these years, I could write quite the book.

Over the years, there have been those who have found the process to be in some way cathartic…but they are few and far between, in my experience.

I do not think the process needs additional reform…that was what we in essence had years ago, when I was significantly younger. As an old priest, I think the process now in the 21st century needs a complete overhaul.

As bad as it is in the United States and Canada, there are many places where it is actually worse and/or not available in any meaningful way.
I agree. A complete overhaul is needed, but will it ever happen? I am sure it is worse
in some other countries.
 
I’m sorry you have had such a bad experience with it. 😦 Do you think that part of the problem could be solved simply by having those working on the case be more pastorally sensitive and/or compassionate in their demeanor (with all else being equal)?

I understand why it can be painful and feel like an invasion of privacy. I’m a very private person myself. I can only imagine what it would be like. My heart aches for people in these situations. But I cannot think of how else the Church can determine what the reality of the situation is without asking personal questions.

I’ll admit I’m no expert. I haven’t gone through the process and don’t even know exactly what questions are asked. Though I direct RCIA and point people towards the process, I myself am not involved in it. I have known many who have gone through the process (some, even 30+ years later). Some found the experience cathartic and freeing. Others endured it only by focusing on the light at the end of the tunnel. I couldn’t really say why some experience it one way over the other.

If there is a better, less-intrusive way to go about it, I sincerely hope that someone figures it out and implements it. I’m just finishing up my first year as DRE and trying to explain the need for an annulment to people was by far the least favorite thing I had to do this whole year. I’d love to be able to tell people, “Just sign this form saying you believe in good conscience that your prior marriage was not valid, and you’ll be good to go!”
I know 100% my marriage was not valid. I don’t need a tribunal to tell me.

What I think is sad is that some people wait years to find out and then it could be determined the marriage was valid. Then what do they do?
 
I know 100% my marriage was not valid. I don’t need a tribunal to tell me.

What I think is sad is that some people wait years to find out and then it could be determined the marriage was valid. Then what do they do?
Fair enough.

I honestly don’t know what a person would do in that situation. That would be very difficult.
 
Lay volunteers. Retired couple who handles all the paperwork without involving anyone at the parish. They take all the paperwork, then send me a questionnaire and ask for four witnesses. Once this is all completed they forward it to the diocesian tribunal. Then I wait.
Talk to your pastor, then.

It’s possible that they are assigned to your case as ‘advocates’, but if that were the case, then I’d presume that you’d have received a letter from your tribunal identifying them as such. In any case, they’re telling you the ‘standard operating procedure’; it would be helpful for you, hopefully, to speak with your pastor directly and get his advice.
 
In my opinion, that is exactly how it should be done. Just take people at their word and let God sort it out. I have to wonder how many cases, after going through the whole, absurdly ridiculous annulment process, are decided incorrectly anyway. I bet the taking-people-at-their-word method, in the end, would be just as accurate in determining which marriages were or were not invalid.
Well, if the Church decided to go that route, that would definitely make my job a lot easier.
 
Fair enough.

I honestly don’t know what a person would do in that situation. That would be very difficult.
I have a friend who went through the annulment process and they ruled her first
marriage valid. She is in her 50’s with two adult children and one in high school. I
don’t know how long she has been divorced. She is not engaged at this time.
I feel sorry for her.
 
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